Cause of uneven edge wear?

[mirror70]

I just noticed that after a few days of riding, the heel side edge of my F2 feel fine, but the toeside is like 10 grit sandpaper. I don't recall trying to rip toeside carves while I was going through the parking lot, so there goes that excuse.

Is there some major flaw in my technique that I'm not aware of?

[Bordy]

Brother edges are metal they need some thing harder then them to rip them up. If you have Burrs on you edge they had to be caused by something harder then the metal(Like a Rock. Even a timy little one.) If thats the case it doesn,t care if you technigue is any good only if you run it over.

However, If you are talking about abrasion to the P-tex then we have a whole nother issue!!!

[mirror70]

It doesn't take something harder than the edge to give it a burr. It is much easier if the offender is harder, but it's not a requirement. Unlike snowboarding, this is actually one area where I have real expertise, so don't try to correct me.

I'm talking about the metal edge, not the base. even the base by the edge is untouched. The burr runs just about tip to tail. I didn't hit anything that I saw, felt, or heard. In the absence of such evidence, I can't for the life of me figure out why it's there.

[Bordy]

Mirrior, this is why I hate this board. Sorry that unlike snowboarding your area of expertise is something else. So instead of trying to correct you, I would say you are right and you know the answer. I hope you wern't being cocky about the don't try to correct you because thats just not a good way to ask for help.

Same thing I said, you hit some thing.

Sorry I treated you like a laymon and assumed the knowledge of burring was un known to you. You did ask the question seemed like you were looking for help.

Her goes. Look up the manufactor of the board and find out what the Rockwell rating of their edge stock is, then using the rockwell rating deturmen your avarage speed for the day. Then using your vast knowledge of Metalology, factor the impact nessasary to provide the heat to burr and temper(is the edge tempered as well) the rockwell rating of your boards edges then take samples all around the ski area and do impact test of the collision of the collected materal and your edge. Then using a eletron microscope try to compare the depth and direction of the burr. Once you have tested and re test mail me your board and the subtance you think caused the burr. I will then run field test with my lab to determine if the substance truly made the burr. If so

I would then stone the burr to detemper it then file the edge sharp with you preferd tunning method, and edge bevels.

Now that said. If you hit ANYTHING to burr your edge it still probably has nothing to do with technique

I bet your glad I didn't try to correct you! Everyone wants to be so right on this board. No one cares about the other guy.

You asked for help I was trying to help Huh. I even conterdicted my self right of the bat with rocks are harder then metal.

[mirror70]

Bordy, without getting into the science of this, how about a couple of anecdotes?

Case 1) I have a knife. I cut vegetables with this knife, and I cut them on a plastic cutting board. Can we agree that the knife is harder than the vegetables? The knife is harder than the plastic cutting board? That I don't eat vegetables with rocks in them? Ok, now explain why I need to sharpen the knife.

Case 2) I have two objects, both of the same Rockwell hardness. I hit them against each other very hard. You said that only the harder object is damaged in these sorts of impacts. Does this mean that neither object will be damaged by me colliding them?

Case 3) I throw a hunk of ice at a car window very hard. The window breaks, the ice does not. Why? The glass has a higher Rockwell hardness, higher compressive strength (several orders of magnitude greater), and higher tensile strength (again, several orders of magnitude higher).

Now, can you tell me the derivation of the Rockwell hardness rating? What it is good for? Why it is flawed? How about how hot you need to get steel at a given pressure and how long you need to keep it there for it to be really and truly tempered? I mean really tempered, not just a mild surface finish.

Bordy, I know you know a lot about snowboarding - You've probably forgotten more than I'll ever know. That is why when you say something, unless it is completely out there, I take it as gospel. This does not, however, make you an expert in metals.

Oh, and the field is called Metallurgy.

[mirror70]

Now, back to the original post.

Given that the edge is burred from tip to tail, that I ride slowly and saw nothing in my path besides snow, that I can't remember hearing or feeling the board slice through anything hard (I assume that something to give my board this burr would have been noteworthy - is that a false assumption?), and that my heel edge is flawless (somewhat eliminates the thin cover/bunch of small burrs theory), what could be the cause? Just a lone rock, held firmly in place below the snow surface, right at carving depth with only enough of it exposed to the edge to cause damage but in no way affect my carve, and leave my base completely untouched?

I agree that it is possible - it just doesn't seem likely.

[sfleck]

Any chance it mighta come from leaving it on a ski rack? or maybe banging around in the back of your car while you were racing around at 150? I've also found some pretty nasty edges on those damn chairlift footrests that put a couple nice dings in my board. Just a thought, and take it easy, you guys are starting to make my brain hurt. :D

[Tommy D]

I have, on occasion, had one edge burred up more than the other, and no damage to the p-tex. Typically this has been caused by a rogue rock hiding just below the surface.

However, on my snowboard, I have noticed that one edge will definitely wear faster than the other, sometimes burring. After thinking about why, I realised I had been favoring that edge when stopping. Now, I try to stop/speedcheck evenly throughout the day on both edges, and both edges seem to wear better.

As an aside, while tuning my board this weekend I noticed that one rail was significantly worn down compared to the other one; but only near the top 6-8 inches of the board. I am usually very careful to tune both edges equally, and evenly along the length. I can only asume that a shop ground down that edge too far when I dropped off the board for a tune and basegrind. Has anyone else experienced this?

[Bordy]

Come on down to the WTC

I am pretty sure the last thing I wanted to do was discuss knife sharping, and it’s a shame you just burned a bridge with a cat in Utah.

But I will try to keep up with your super hard questions!

Case 1) I have a knife. I cut vegetables with this knife, and I cut them on a plastic cutting board. Can we agree that the knife is harder than the vegetables? The knife is harder than the plastic cutting board? That I don't eat vegetables with rocks in them? Ok, now explain why I need to sharpen the knife.

A: Because you did not buy a Ginsu they never need sharping.

Case 2) I have two objects, both of the same Rockwell hardness. I hit them against each other very hard. You said that only the harder object is damaged in these sorts of impacts. Does this mean that neither object will be damaged by me colliding them?

A: I never said the harder object is damaged you made that up point is your edge was damaged I was trying to help.

Case 3) I throw a hunk of ice at a car window very hard. The window breaks, the ice does not. Why? The glass has a higher Rockwell hardness, higher compressive strength (several orders of magnitude greater), and higher tensile strength (again, several orders of magnitude higher).

A: first of all you are a kook for throwing any thing at glass, safety or not. You know the bond of glass is less strong then the hydrogen bond of water. You’re a fool for even trying to test the theory I learned Glass was FRAGILE at a much younger age. Sorry you had to find out the hard way. Was it the windshield?

Hers the skinny we could keep playing this game or you could realize I was trying to help you find a solution, and your statement about Me not trying to correct you was just plane rude. Perhaps you noticed the Boob Maciek and I chatting, and felt I was going to lash out towards your self. Maybe by adding that statement about correcting you was your way to establish dominance?

I am looking at my response let see it went like so:

Same thing I said, you hit some thing.

Sorry I treated you like a layman and assumed the knowledge of burring was un known to you. You did ask the question seemed like you were looking for help.

I guess the sorry part was really an invitation to share whit.

I joked about the sure fire way to find the culprit reasonable for the burr. Thinking you may injoy it and perhaps laugh at your self for being so pompas.

Instead you try to show case your knowledge with silly questions.

YOU HIT SOME THING THAT CAUSED A BURR IN YOUR EDGE.

I believe I even offered up a fix.

I would then stone the burr to detemper it then file the edge sharp with you preferd tunning method, and edge bevels.

Now that said. If you hit ANYTHING to burr your edge it still probably has nothing to do with technique

I bet your glad I didn't try to correct you! Everyone wants to be so right on this board. No one cares about the other guy.

You asked for help I was trying to help Huh. I even contradicted my self right of the bat with rocks are harder then metal.

Shame how you say you take everything I say a gospel then want to play metal guy. Funny how I was trying to help you.

I guess you were to cool for the first Sorry,

But I'll try again.

Sorry that your edge is burred and you don't know why.

Maybe you could go on line and ask some advise in a forum. But if the first response doesn't know your back ground and gives you a warm Brother tag and response period, you should throw down about what you know so some one trying to help you out gets a chance to be ridiculed by you.

Way to make friend!

PS didn't you stop into the shop to see me one day. I think I remember. I was way nice to you gave you some quick tips where the snow was good and had to go back to work because it was busy. Told you to stop back I would love to chat etc.

Man if that was you, I'm sorry I was so nice to you off the bat maybe I should have tried to asstaplish domanice right away like you Did.

I am a nice guy I'm just not willing to take crap there is a difference.

I hope you fix the burr and have some great turns that’s what its all about.

Maceiks a boob.

Also I ride way better then my mouth works in reference to the ECES post I really hope you are not talking smack because as you know. I love folk talking smack. See this board has very little to really do with real snowboarding. If you have so much time to post perhaps you should use some of it to work on your riding if we set a race course. At WTC (o-yea it will probably be me setting it!) I am happy to race people for money. You know five bucks here ten bucks there. Bring your wallet if you are so solid, Maybe I’ll still be sore from my rag-doll and won’t have to use it as excuse so much as reason to gloat. As in, even hurt I whopped up on so and so.

I’ll even help you fix the burr first so there is no hard feelings.

[mirror70]

Bordy,

The "do not correct me" line is there because you have a knack for going completely off-topic in an effort to show how good of a rider you are. Your last post is a perfect example of this.

Now, for an itemized response to your last post:

I never said the harder object is damaged you made that up

So in your first reply when you said "If you have Burrs on you edge they had to be caused by something harder then the metal" what exactly did you mean? How can I take you seriously when you say something explicitly but then later say either you meant the exact opposite or didn't say it at all?

You know the bond of glass is less strong then the hydrogen bond of water

Actually, I know this is wrong. Glass is very strong. The details of this are well outside the realm of this thread, and probably this forum as well. I'd be more than happy to discuss the technical side of this with you, but this thread is not the place for it.

YOU HIT SOME THING THAT CAUSED A BURR IN YOUR EDGE

Yes, I gathered that much. I also said that such an impact/scrape would be something that I would notice while riding, and that I did not notice anything, so I was looking for other potential causes. I see from the other responses in the thread that other people have come up with some possibilities. It looks almost like the World Cup non-hero was trounced by his adoring fans?

Everyone wants to be so right on this board. No one cares about the other guy.

Hi, Pot. Meet Kettle.

didn't you stop into the shop to see me one day. I think I remember.

I'm pretty sure you don't remember. The only shops I spend any time in are filled with autoclaves or various CNC machinery. It's also a heck of a drive for me to get to your shop.

in reference to the ECES post I really hope you are not talking smack

I think you have me confused with someone else.

Maybe I’ll still be sore from my rag-doll and won’t have to use it as excuse so much as reason to gloat.

I thought you were just sore from patting yourself on the back so much? Or was it all of the chest thumping? The self high-fives?

[mirror70]

Originally posted by sfleck

Any chance it mighta come from leaving it on a ski rack? or maybe banging around in the back of your car while you were racing around at 150? I've also found some pretty nasty edges on those damn chairlift footrests that put a couple nice dings in my board.

Hehehe, I actually took off the rack because it was slowing me down too much. Car pulls much harder above 100 now :D

Anyway, no, it's not from being on the rack since I don't use it any more. It's also not from the footrest on a chair since I never use them and the burr also runs tip to tail - I'm not flexible enough to run that length of board along the footrest.

[mirror70]

Originally posted by Tommy D

However, on my snowboard, I have noticed that one edge will definitely wear faster than the other, sometimes burring. After thinking about why, I realised I had been favoring that edge when stopping. Now, I try to stop/speedcheck evenly throughout the day on both edges, and both edges seem to wear better.

I thought about that, but I almost always stop on my heel side.

I don't mean to completely rule out a rock as the cause - it just seems like that is something I would have noticed when it happened.

[Bordy]

Funny after all your atempts to seem so bad a** the first guy to reply, The guy you poked fun at and ridridiculed and insulted is most likely correct But Now when you have a question I’ll make sure I respond its obvious that you must be me superior by the fine job you did by controlling your post response with your fine knowledge of Metallurgy (see I even learned one thing).

Its a shame you were so rude with your first response we would not have wanted that to be some drawn out long post.

That's why you posted the Rude don’t try to correct me to keep me on track correct oh great manipulator.

Still stick with the same response.

You Hit some thing that Burred your edge. Go figure out what on your own. You know so much why did you ask us?

Shame that I apoligized twice about the possible insult and you just keep on going.

And you are correct I had you mixed up with some one else.

You still have proven nothing about you moment of glory

It looks almost like the World Cup non-hero was trounced by his adoring fans?

quote:

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Everyone wants to be so right on this board. No one cares about the other guy.

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Hi, Pot. Meet Kettle.

No difference is I am still right, You hit something you are even started to addmit it yourself.

How am I Pot and Kettle when I am right?

Oh yea I may be a WC non hero in your eyes but not in mine. While your in Super cool shops I am on the hill.

Not only that I tried to follow my dream of racing snowboards

In everyone elses Eyes thats what heros do.

[Guest pnut]

All I know is while you two have been back and forth, I've cleaned up my edges waxed my board and have been out ridin.:D

[Mellow Yellow]

amen pnut...amen

[Justin A.]

right on Pnut. Bordy and Mirror, knock it off. Bordy, you're a very good rider, but you did throw some out there stuff. I totally agree that you would have to hit something to cause a burr, but without getting into the science part of it (which you now made me need to go figure out because of my genes) it didnt nesscicarily need to be a rock, but thats the most common cause. Mirror, you're a good rider too and I know that you're going to WPI, and Im sure that you had to take classes in all that stuff, but there's no need to get all arrogant about it, he was just offering some help. Ok you two, cool it, this is the first arugment Ive seen on the board since the remodeling.

-Justin

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