Kex
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Posts posted by Kex
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Do you know how fast you were going?
uhh, 65?
63.
But officer, isn't the speed limit 65?
It is.
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thump,
didnt make it out today, let me know how conditions were, i should be out tomorrow
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just one. was riding back home from campus (less than a mile's bikeride). my bikes rear brake line snapped and i had to use my front brakes at the bottom of a steep hill. the wheel locked up and threw me over the handlebars. i (apparently) hit my head and I wasn't wearing a helmet, because it was such a short ride to campus. needless to say I always wear one now though.
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ive had similar trouble with my boots, so im interested as well. I bought some deeluxe indys according to my size (mp26) with heat moldable liners and have found them unusable. my feet are crushed width-wise, and when i lock down the straps, it puts pressure on my arches. I was able to slightly alleviate the pain by removing the footbeds to give myself a little more room(allowed be to ride for a little over an hour at a time before pain was unbearable and a break was required), but it didnt solve the problem.
when i molded them, i did it with the footbeds, a little extra padding on high pressure areas, and medium thickness socks. I dont know if its just because im used to a looser fit with my softboots, but the 26s just havent worked for me. I havent tried getting them remolded or punched out because im thinking it night be a better idea to just sell these and size up instead of going through all the expenses and effort(college student = little time or money:()
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i hope no one minds, but i thought i would bump this old thread back to the top in hopes of hearing any other reviews of the board. I obtained an elan ballistic 171 last spring and only had the opportunity to ride it for a single day.
I know what I thought of it from my limited trial, but as a fairly novice hardbooter, I'd like to hear some more opinions about the board from more experienced riders who have tried it. From what Ive read so far, it seems like a good board i could get some good experience on, though it seems like the learning curve of this board might be steep at the same time. tomorrow will be my first day on the slopes this season, and im excited to get back to hardbooting.
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camel back is looking great! the wind was brutal today but rode the race trail til 1030 am when the crowds became overwhelming.hero snow from the storm and the guns over spray.saw some young guns training the gates too.really going to be great monday and tues. once the crowds go home.
hey thump,
im up in the poconos for the week and thought id see if anyone else from bomber would be in the area. I have a place near camelback, so I'll probably be there a few times this week. Not sure if I'll be on my hard or soft boots, i like to go back and forth, but I thought id say hi and introduce myself, and I'll be keeping an eye out for any hardbooters and telltale trenches in the snow on the slopes. hope to see you out there!
-Kevin
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I agree completely! Now somebody buy my Madd 180! :D
You know what this video makes me think... is that an old idea I and surely several other people have had might work... magnetic bindings. The retention would be somewhere between a regular binding and the NoBoard. You could retro-fit existing boots with a strap-on or bolt-on magnet, and the board with a metal plate screwed to the inserts. Hmm...
not a terrible idea, but a few things to overcome: first, magnets slide fairly easily as im sure you know, so you would need some sort of boot shaped rim around the magnet on the board to hold your foot in place, or something equivalent. second, if the magnet hold is strong enough to be functional, how do you get your foot off? unless we are talking some sort of electromagnet. lastly, in sure it would come off in a nasty crash, so it would need some sort of runaway prevention. a leash would work, but a large bladed weight flying through the air while tethered to me doesnt sound fun imo. the other option is to go the way of the ski and put on retractable brakes.
seems like a lot of trouble to put brakes and boot rim things on your board, magnets on your board and feet, for something that does the same job as regular bindings.
oh, one last problem: steel floors/staircases + magnetic boots = funny
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wow gecko, thanks for all the answers, definitely clears a lot up. I really appreciate you taking the time to write all that. a nice reminder of why i love BOL so much
Thanks for the link xx, i was wondering what sites might be reliable information sources. When I was first picking up hardbooting I spent a lot of time at the carvers almanac (www.alpinecarving.com) soaking up all the info they have there, and I think that really helped me get a grasp on all the subtleties of the sport and feel like i was buying gear as an informed buyer.
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I'm a snowboarder, have been since I was 6 or so. I got interested in hardbooting and finally got the chance to try it last year. Bought my first alpine board this year and have had a lot of fun on it this season.
Honestly, Ive never been into skateboarding, but I think that is mainly because the only skateboarding that I've seen people do is freestyle. freestyle just isn't my style, which is part of the reason I got into alpine snowboarding in the first place. I figure if im not catching huge air and doing tricks, why be on a freestyle snowboard?
Anyway, recently ive seen an increase in people on longboards riding around campus, and I have to say, it looks pretty sick. Ive never really seen people carve turns on skateboards before recently, and I have to say, watching them(and people on youtube videos) carve turns and feel the G's at high speeds has been giving me the urge to try it. Since I have pretty much no knowledge of skateboarding, I figured I would turn to bomber, like I did for hardbooting.
So if any of you longboarding genius' out there could give me some pointers and such, I really have no idea what I am looking for. just browsing the site ive already seen some things that I have no knowledge of. terms like "loaded", "WB", truck width, that kind of stuff. I don't really know how length, different types of wheels, or the shape of the deck effect the ride. Ive seen some crazy shaped decks and dont know what the differences are, I've seen some people riding decks that seem to flex to the point they are going to touch the ground in between the wheels while they are riding, which seems strange. does flex on a skateboard deck work the same way as it does for snowboarding(the more flex, the smaller the turn radius at a given speed)?
Anyway, i know ive asked a lot of questions and havent been very specific, but i think im catching the bug and dont even know where to start, so any info would be great!
If it matters, I'm 5'11" and 190 lbs
thanks!
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Actually, I am pretty sure that it does make him an expert in the physics of how to make a snowboard work well and go fast. This is not some theoretical classroom thing for Phil. This is what he lives.
Glad to hear that you are done educating the experts, because you have a lot to learn.
Buell
then I take it you believe that risers increase "leverage" too? If so, you both need to go take a physics course.
anyway, I'm done trying to defend or explain myself or correct physics. Please continue to flame, I wont reply again. I'll just laugh like I have been doing this whole time. It never ceases to amaze me what people will believe
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Kex, seriously dude. Do you know who Phil Fell is? I will give you hint. He is not some average joe carver on BOL.
I am going to go ahead and spell it out for you:
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USSA 2008 Domestic Snowboard Coach of the Year - Phil Fell
- USSA 2008 Snowboard Program of the Year - PCSBT
That means that he was the USSA USA coach of the year. That is due to his skill as an alpine snowboard racing coach. PCSBT is the Park City Snowboard Team and Phil was head of it in 2008 when it was given the honor of being the Program of the Year.
This may be the internet and there may be some cloak of anonymity, but philfell is Phil Fell and he deserves to be treated with a tremendous amount of respect.
Thanks, Buell
I'm not trying to disrespect him, my hats off to him for being coach of the year, thats an accomplishment to be proud of. It does not however make him an expert in physics. Sorry that I'm trying to explain how forces and torque work to a snowboard coach, I guess I should be flamed for trying to do that. Anyway, as I said, I'm done trying to teach those that dont want to be taught, and I'm not going to try anymore. apparently being coach of the year means you are always right and dont have to even try to listen to what others say
Don't waste your time... this is the same guy that thinks that a well tuned board is unneccessary...http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24269&highlight=tuning
gasp! someone with an opinion on a forum!
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USSA 2008 Domestic Snowboard Coach of the Year - Phil Fell
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I guess you either get it at this point or you don't. And you are in the latter. Read what Rob has said, he has summed it up well enough. Also go through and read all of your post one after another, you may find out something about yourself.
what he says supports exactly what I'm saying
"The initiating of movement from a flat base feels just as hard to start as without them" this means there is no more leverage... and what he follows with, supports what I said about raising your center of gravity. So... thanks for telling me to read something that supports what I said. I've ridden the same board with and without risers and there is no difference in leverage. So I believe that in fact, you have it backwards. I get it and you dont.
As for what you said about my posting, its something I already know: I spend waaay too much time trying to educate people that dont want to be educated, and dont listen to reason. Sorry about that, I wont try to teach you anymore. I wish you the best!
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I'm just stating that they improve leverage.
You were just falsly stating that there is no way that they do actually increase leverage, I was trying to show you that they do.
leverage for what? you have not mentioned what you are trying to lever.
also, after considering your analogy to highbacks, I think it is false anyway. with highbacks, the force of you trying to pivot on your heels is what is transferred to them. that puts the fulcrum at heel level, not edge level, meaning the riser does not help at all. On the other hand, a longer highback would help, but then its easier to get caught on a lift while hopping on, which brings up a new problem.
As I said earlier, risers will raise your center of gravity, making it easier to fall over and therefore get low, but there is no "leverage: increas
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Now you are changing the wording around to suit your argument. I never said anything about an increase in "power" or "Pressure". I just backed up the fact that risers increase leverage when you were making statements that said that they could not increase "LEVERAGE".
Again here is a quote from you: " I do maintain though, that risers do not give you increased leverage" and then you say this: "With your example, you are correct in saying that the further from the fulcrum you are, the more leverage you have, but you are forgetting one thing."
And you are trying to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.
I guess i dont know what you are trying to say then. I assumed people were talking about using a larger lever to increase the power transferred to their edges. Along those lines I am saying that risers will not help you. you are just saying "leverage" without specifying what you are levering. care to tell me what it is these risers are helping you to "lever"? if you are just talking about ease of getting on edge, then yes, risers help you, but only because they raise your center of gravity higher off the ground.
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Kex there is more than one lever on a snowboard. The high back is a lever, when you push against the high back this levers the board on edge. The further away from the fulcrom (ie edge in this case) the more "leverage" you have. Plates do this, same is true for toeside, but the lever is a bit more complicated.
As far as guys using Burton bindings, most everyone purchases theirs, not many get them for free. Guys use these instead of the cateks for pretty much the same reason the racers us F2's instead of TD2's.
And Cindy are you trying to say that Lindsay is a lesbian??? If so this is so not true.
yes, there is more than one lever, in fact there are many forces being exerted on many different locations. My diagram is illustrating one particular aspect of the forces exerted.
With your example, you are correct in saying that the further from the fulcrum you are, the more leverage you have, but you are forgetting one thing. As you yourself said, the edge is the fulcrum. this is exactly why risers offer no more power to your edge. a longer lever does not effect the fulcrum at all. it effects the load your are exerting force against.
Anyway, if you want to continue convincing yourself that risers increase the power to your edges, that's fine with me, but they really dont add any more power. they are used for the other benefits they present. Im not going to continue trying to argue with people that dont listen to reason, so in summary: if they did increase power, you would see people riding on 6 inch plus risers. they obviously do not, and if you are unconvinced, try making your own 6 inch risers and see how much power you can add.
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twelsh - Catek FR2s are good for carving, but they're pretty rough on me when i start jumping with them, probably why they're not used for SBX, i dunno. they're pretty stiff and rigid. probably the same reason why TD2s weren't really used on the racing scene either - TD3s are getting more attention though with that huge elastomer shock absorber.
Kex, risers are used on skateboards too, not only for wheelbite but also to increase leverage.
Also, your figure is wrong in that you're treating the snowboard as a first class lever. it's not. it's a third class lever. your fulcrum isn't at the center of the board. it's at the edge of the board, the edge not in contact with the snow. your force comes from the center of the board, and the load is the other edge, the one that's in contact with the snow.
it's actually a combination of levers. picture an upside down "T" the horizontal part is the board, and the vertical part is the riser/binding interface (you at the end of it).
based on how you've made your diagram (a first class lever), in order to put more force into the edge in contact with the snow, you need to PULL up on the edge not in contact with the snow in order to push the other edge down into the snow, while you at the center are the fulcrum... or, if you put it the other way, where you push down on the edge in contact with the snow, then you don't have a lever at all anymore... you can't have your load, fulcrum, AND effort all in the same spot - that's not a lever...
if your force is into the snow, and your fulcrum is the center of the board, then you're technically doing work on the edge that up in the air and applying force on the air...
i might be completely wrong, and probably am. hell, i'm and idiot, i'm talking snowboard theory and jargon here - i should be out riding instead...
i'm sure someone with real knowledge will set us straight. they'll tell us that we're both idiots and that we're both wrong. haha
I guess I should have specified. my diagram is taking into account only the forces exerted onto the board with initial foot angulation, and is not modeling a lever. If you are speaking of a lever, then the fulcrum of the lever is on the edge of the board where it is touching the snow, and you have your forces of gravity trying to pull one way on the lever while momentum keeps you from falling.
My model is just a sum of the initial forces as you initiate a turn. The sum of the forces causes the axis of rotation to be in a location different than the edge of the board. Since your board cannot freely pivot, and is limited by the plane of the snow, it will instead go onto edge.
sorry I didnt specify that, though I am sure I will get flamed either way. I do maintain though, that risers do not give you increased leverage.
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I might be completely wrong.
I`m thinking along the lines of this visualization.
Take a 6 inch long stick and attach it to the center of the board. Use the stick to tilt the board up on edge and note the required force.
Now take that same stick and make it 6 feet long. Use the stick to tilt the board up on edge. The required force is substantially less due to the lever effect.
Does that same theory not hold true when talking about riser plates?
you are thinking in the wrong plane. with a snowboard, our lever is in the horizontal plane(when starting a carve), just call it the x plane. risers increase the distance in the vertical or y plane. since our force is along the y axis, increasing the length of the y axis changes nothing. (torque is equal to the force times the perpendicular (tangential) distance from our center of rotation. if you increase y, you are only increasing the parallel distance(radial). maybe this drawing of a board as seen from beind or from in front will help. Its rough and drawn in paint, but it gets the point across. the riser height is exaggerated for effect but even with a small riser height, the distance L2 will always be greater than L1
edit: just noticed a mistake in the drawing. the sum of M is not equal to M1 + M2. I was originally going to make the pulling force F1 and the pushing F2 but decided to set them equal for simplicity's sake. Then i made F2 the force for the second example, and forgot to correct the equation.
again, Ignore the lines that say sum M = M1 + M2.
edit 2: also please note that I am not advising against the use of risers. I am merely trying to show that I am correct in saying that risers result in a smaller downward force transferred to the snow.
As real life risers are nowhere near as tall as the one in my drawing, they have a much smaller effect on the downward force applied to the metal edges of the board, and the damping effects, in addition to the reduced bootout effects, usually outweigh the very small disadvantage they have
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Kex, think about what the term "lever" actually means.
Think about how a lever works.
See folly of previous statement.
are you really trying to say that a riser makes your lever longer? because the "lever" you speak of is the width of your board, NOT the height of it.
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Hmmm... one of us needs to go back to class then:sleep:
i agree, and it isnt myself
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The more I think about it, the more I know I am correct.
if anything, more height means less pressure on the edges. because we want our edges to dig into the snow/ice, we want as much downward force as possible. by adding elevation(think back to the example earlier, about an insanely tall riser), we take away from the downward pressure and add in more of a horizontal pressure. this is the opposite of what we want
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...I use the Burtons and not only get rid of any pontential boot-out (at around 30f 10r angles), but the extra leverage is allows for more power to the edges.
-Gord
extra leverage? how do risers give you that? being higher up will actually give you no more leverage from my understanding of physics...
imagine you are on some crazy high risers(like a foot or more). you will get no more leverage from them than you would from being as close to the board as possible.
If you are thinking about exerting a lateral torque to the top of the riser, that could result in more pressure on the edges, but only if you have a fixed pivot position a certain distance from the edge, to provide more pressure on the edge (which, if there is anything that's close to a fixed pivot point, it would be the edge itself, making the above meaningless).
Even so, thats not how we pressure the edges anyway. We use angulation (a combination of exerting an upward force on one side of the board, e.g. with our toes, and exerting a downward force with the other side(heels in the example Im mentioning). This creates a special case of torque about the middle of the board, called a couple, which has nothing to do with the height you are off the ground, but has to do with the size of your feet, stance angles, and board width(distance from the center of rotation)
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... until he outgrows Osgood-Schlatter's disease. Nothing serious; just a question of time.
ouch, I had that back in the day, not very fun to have. mine wasn't serious enough to keep me from snowboarding though, it was just a b*tch when i hit my knee on something and would become pretty achy when I had to keep my leg in a bent position for a long period of time without being able to stretch it out(like on a long drive in the car or on a plane). advil helped on the snowboarding days
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Why ask this question if you are not able to tolerate peoples responses?
i believe its called a rhetorical question... oops, is yours one of those too?;)
edit: though, after rereading, i dont think he actually asked a question...
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Just to add. A SPOT does NOT replace an avalanche beacon. Nor does that Recco thingy that came sewn into your coat/pants.
If you don't understand either of the above two sentences, please reply and I'll try to write out a detailed description of what each device really does. Bottom line is SPOT would be in addition to your normal avy stuff like Beacon, Probe, Shovel and first aid kit.
just curious about the recco thing because I know that my coat has one. from what i understood its basically an rf tag like the ones department stores use to keep people from shoplifting, only bigger
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im 21 now, been snowboarding for about 15 years. my first time on hardboots was last year though. glad to hear not everyone around my age is only interested in the park! good luck!
camelback?
in Southwest Northeast
Posted
finally hit the slopes today and i must say it was a great day out there today. i was a little dissapointed cliffhanger was closed, but o well. went with softboots because i spent the morning teaching a friend how to snowboard before taking off and getting some serious runs in at around noon. switched between the two chairs a few times looking for carvelines without much luck. when did you call it quits? a little after 2 i saw someone with an alpine board taking off, he had a black board with a yellow nose. any chance that was you?