I thought this was a free country

[Jack M]

have you ever done any type of race you weren't sure you could finish when you started training for it? if you havent raced you shouldnt be commenting on why people race as your pants are muffling.

When I went out for the crew team, I didn't know if I had what it took to last the season. I wanted to find out. But why? I think subconsciously it was to know that I could do something that a lot of other people couldn't. In other words, to see how I "measure up". 95 guys tried out for the team in the fall. 20 were left come springtime, and I was proud to be one of them. I taught myself a new level of perseverance in the process, and that is the biggest benefit. But I'd be lying if I told you I didn't care what other people think of that.

i thought you rowed? played soccer? wasnt there a big difference between a "practice" game and real game (soccer)?

Both. Of course - because in a real game, you care about getting closer to the championship. Or in a real race, you care about where you finish.

it sounds as if you havent raced where you were not on a team. because if you had you know there is a BIG difference between just timing yourself and being ready to race for the race day. all people dont race because they care what others think bottom line. people race to raise money, for personal motivation, to accomplish a certain goal and for a ton of other reasons.

its not so black and white.

I don't think you're stopping to think about what I'm asking. The question is, "why compete?". Let's neglect fund raising for the sake of argument. I think that's different and irrelevant. I think when you boil it down, you compete either to show people that you're good or are the best, or, to see how you measure up against others when it's on the record. In the former case, you obviously care what other people think about you. In the latter case, you get a personal sense of satisfaction, but you also get an ace up your sleeve that you can play whenever you want. You can then say to someone "hey, I ran the Boston Marathon", at any time afterwards in your life if you need to for whatever reason. Even if you never play that card, just having it is a form of insurance you can use to affect what other people think of you. If you feel you need that, then you care what other people think of you.

If you just want to see if you can run a marathon, you don't have to actually run the Boston Marathon. So why bother?

It's the tree falling in the forest thing.

Again, nothing wrong with caring what other people think of you. I just call BS whenever a competitor claims they don't.

[trailertrash]

lets finish this at the eces, your first is on me.

[Jack M]

there are very many humble competitors out there.

Heh, don't get me started on feigned humbleness. "Humble" atheletes enjoy opening the whop-ass can just as much as anyone.

Yet every time I strap in for a race, or pick up the clubs, I am fiercly competitive, with myself. I want to ride, or play, to the best of abilities.

You don't need to do that inside of a race or competition. So why do you?

In Team sports, I can hold my head high at the end of the game, win or lose, if I know I left nothing on the field.

That's fine, but why are you in the competition to begin with?

I agree that there are many people who compete for the sole reason of showing how good they are, and I believe that they miss the true essence of sport.

Or maybe they're just honest about why they like to compete. I think most of us including me like to include other senses of satisfaction, like competing for personal achievement, or just for fun, or for fitness, or whatever. But at the end of the competition, even if only for a fleeting moment, you enjoy the raw sense of pride knowing that the people you beat have to look at you and know that at that moment, you are the superior player. Bonus if there are any spectators.

Not that there's anything wrong with that! :)

[bjvircks]

She can go home in (relative) peace and quite.

In the not so distant past if athletes from certain opressive regimes did not meet the expectations of their government they would be beaten, they, their families and relatives would loose government subsidies and perks and could become outcasts.

She blew a race. Big deal in the grand scheme of life. Did anybody die? Anybody go hungry? Anybody loose the roof over their head?

Sure, it would have been great to see a fun move followed by a big win. Maybe another year. Life goes on... OhBlaDe OhBlaDa.

[Hugh]

she can say whatever she wants, none of us know what her intentions really were on that last jump, we can speculate but will never know for sure. losing respect for an amazing athlete because they said something that you believe to be false is rediculous, you should respect an athlete for there abilities and the fact still remains that she is an amazing snowboarder. and she has an olympic silver medal, which is something most people will never experience.

Ron Morris is someone that I know and respect. At the 1960 Rome Olympics, he was ranked in the top 5 in the world and won a silver medal in the pole vault. I have worn his Olympic silver medal and felt the honor and respect for Ron. Respect is earned, not given up freely. My take, Hugh

http://vm.mtsac.edu/relays/HallFame/Morris.htm

http://www.hickoksports.com/history/ol1960.shtml#mtandf

Check out the other names in the 1960 Olympics, wow!

[Vahur]

In Torino are Olympic Games and games associate (at least to me) with playing. Linsey did this playing very well and I hope that she is happy with result and enjoys her days there. Nevermind the sponsors and politics, she has plenty of time ahead to become responsible person and behave in expected and boring manner. These games have been anyway too much of politics and business (I do not like this overall flag-waiving and politicians self-promotion and athletes dressed like walking ad stands), I'm glad that some humanity and game spirit is seen in the middle of it.

[ncermak]

Heh, don't get me started on feigned humbleness. "Humble" atheletes enjoy opening the whop-ass can just as much as anyone.

Very true. I won't say I don't enjoy winning. It is definitely a part of enjoning any sport. "Winning...It's like better than losing" - Nuke Laloush (Bull Durham).

But the true sportsman isn't there to celebrate beating the competition, rather to celebrate being the best on that given day. For instance, I can win a race, but ried terribly. I don't feel neerly as good as coming in second, but knowing that I rode the baest that I could.

You don't need to do that inside of a race or competition. So why do you?[/Quote]

Because the competition provides an opportunity to see how my best stacks up. I am also that way, anytime I strap in...or pick up the clubs. I get mad at myself if I ride or play poorly. Also, because competition provides the drive to push yourself harder. A friend in the Adult ski league fell on the second gate last night. he got up and rode the course more aggressively and better than ever. because he was mad at himself. he holds no illusions of beating the top racers, rather competes against himself. Next week he will be a better racer because of the experience.

That's fine, but why are you in the competition to begin with?

Love of the sport. Fun. Comraderie. challenge myself.

Or maybe they're just honest about why they like to compete. I think most of us including me like to include other senses of satisfaction, like competing for personal achievement, or just for fun, or for fitness, or whatever. But at the end of the competition, even if only for a fleeting moment, you enjoy the raw sense of pride knowing that the people you beat have to look at you and know that at that moment, you are the superior player. Bonus if there are any spectators.

Not that there's anything wrong with that! :)

They may be honest, but I feel that the true Essence of sport lies in the intrinsic rewards. John candy said it best in Cool Runnings "a gold medal is a wonderful thing. But if you're not enough without one, you'll never be enough *with* one"

that goes for any victory on any level...

[ncermak]

(Jack- maybe you can clean up the quotes on that, i'm not very good with computers adn HTML stuff)

(YOU WIN! Don't you feel good about yourself!!!! )

[Guest needanswer]

For the record, I was just trying to point out that ...

1) she's not responsible to anybody but herself

2) Don't like how Olympic coverage is done.

First they create the hype. Next, if an athlete wins, then WE won! If he/she lost, then WE're disappointed. if he/she screwd up, oh no, you better explain to US what happen. Ever watch a ball game where you didn't care who wins and enjoy the athleticism. Also, the portrayal of athletes... the commentators always says , 'oh what a nice young men / women' like they know them personally. I'm sure there are a fair share of jerks in the olympics (as in any group of people). With this kind of media, we get people that does little for any olympic athelete for 4 years and all of a sudden we critize what they think, say, do like we know them.

no wonder some sports stars need PR people. Apparently what they say off the field counts too. I think if we're half as judgmental with politicians who are actually responsible to us (not like sports stars) we’ll all be better off.

[eddie]

Oh my gosh the is the best thread. Almost everyone is saying what they would do, refuses to back down (pride won't allow it), and with the up most enthusiasm that their personal view on the sport is right.

“She’s 20 years old,” Foley said. “If she got caught up in the moment, she got caught up in the moment. It’s not the end of the world for me. When I saw her go off the jump, I didn’t see anything weird about it. I didn’t go, like, ’Oh, no!’ Especially because Nate and Seth grab method almost every run.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11403461/

Snowboard cross Olympic Gold winner Seth Wescott said, “the trick she tried is second nature to us. The people who criticize, don't understand the sport at all.” Todd Richards said from the announcers booth that if he were in Lindsey’s boots and had a chance to do “the most stylish trick in snowboarding” he would have probably gone for it too.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2006/2/inktomi348876.php

I guess all the critics in here just don't understand snowboarding... according to Seth... who Jack knows personally BTW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncermak

there are very many humble competitors out there.

Heh, don't get me started on feigned humbleness. "Humble" atheletes enjoy opening the whop-ass can just as much as anyone.

Quote:

Yet every time I strap in for a race, or pick up the clubs, I am fiercly competitive, with myself. I want to ride, or play, to the best of abilities.

You don't need to do that inside of a race or competition. So why do you?

Quote:

In Team sports, I can hold my head high at the end of the game, win or lose, if I know I left nothing on the field.

That's fine, but why are you in the competition to begin with?

Quote:

I agree that there are many people who compete for the sole reason of showing how good they are, and I believe that they miss the true essence of sport.

Or maybe they're just honest about why they like to compete. I think most of us including me like to include other senses of satisfaction, like competing for personal achievement, or just for fun, or for fitness, or whatever. But at the end of the competition, even if only for a fleeting moment, you enjoy the raw sense of pride knowing that the people you beat have to look at you and know that at that moment, you are the superior player. Bonus if there are any spectators.

Not that there's anything wrong with that!

Woah! Now your just getting down on their level. Nice good will ending though.

“I was having fun,” she said. “Snowboarding is fun. I was ahead. I wanted to share my enthusiasm with the crowd. I messed up. Oh well, it happens.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11403461/

"I think it's silly for athletes to look at a sport to get better deals and endorsements," Jacobellis said. "They should do it because they enjoy and love it."

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2006/2/inktomi348876.php

You guys... I don't think she is taking this serious enough.

After biffing on the method air landing, Jacobellis jokingly added "As a freestyler, I bow my head in shame."

http://www.outdoornewswire.com/v/current/htdocs/etc/sa.php/63617465676f72794c6162656c3d4f6c796d706963536e6f77626f617264696e67266c6f636174696f6e3d323030362f30322f313134303139343034382672737349643d32383939

Ha! The New York Times took that quote out of context. Pfff.. not suprised, controversy make them money. Does not deserve a quote. Click link

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/18/sports/olympics/18cross.html

"If she got caught up in the moment, what are you going to do?" Foley said. "And if people think that's a big deal, they still miss the point of snowboarding."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/18/sports/olympics/18cross.html

Oh, well okay... if you say so.

To sum the post up, it all comes down to this- Hey Nate, has yours started moving yet? I can't seem to get mine going.

[Justin A.]

Heh, don't get me started on feigned humbleness. "Humble" atheletes enjoy opening the whop-ass can just as much as anyone.

So true...I play billiards to suppliment my crappy income over at school, and I'll be all humble and "oh that wasnt such a bad shot" and what not, and laugh when I make a "bad" shot to make the other player feel better, but I really do enjoy opening the whoop ass on people. Feigned humbleness is the absolute worst. It just takes extra effort that could be expended elsewhere and sometimes just makes the others feel bad about themselves.

She did a grab over the final table what was she thinking? I don't know, you don't know, and I personally don't care. She blew it, not my problem. I scratched on the 8 ball after running the table from the break, I blew it, I had to deal with the $20 f***up. She has to deal with the lack of a gold medal in her trophy case, but we all know who WOULD have won, and so do her sponsors.

________

Ford Fairlane (Australia) Picture

[Dr D]

the picture looks cool and no one will ever forget her plus she's got a silver and she had fun everyone knows she should have won gold so what its still better than being the girl who won gold becouse she fell what was her name again? hell I don't even remember what country she was from. Would lindsey do it again I hope so just to shut every one's pie hole.

the horse beating icon is fantastic by the way.

[DiveBomber]

to answer the original post, Yes it a free country, free to be stupid, and free for everyone and his brother to point out said persons stupidity!

[Baka Dasai]

to answer the original post, Yes it a free country, free to be stupid, and free for everyone and his brother to point out said persons stupidity!

Yeah, a free country means that we are free to judge.

I've never understood this reaction:

Person 1: That's stupid/dumb/wrong!

Person 2: Hey! It's a free country!

(Person 1 never said or implied that it wasn't a free country.)

But the original issue is really interesting - on one hand you've got competition/racing oriented people who think she blew it, and on the other hand you've got style oriented people (who think it's the journey, not the destination) that think she's cool.

And the fact that there's such a sizable number of people in group 2 shows that snowboarding (or at least boardercross) is an uncomfortable fit in the Olympics. The reason why there's so many people in group 2 is the same reason that people in boardercross wear baggy clothes instead of speed suits.

I'm with group 1. If you're in a race, win the race. If you're in a style competition, you're in the half pipe. Don't get them confused.

[bumpyride]

Quote"

Unquote"

Intentionally left blank, let's talk about something really important, like the next 8 days I'm boarding in Salt Lake. We'll be on 7 27 on the motorolas starting Saturday. Who's up for giving the tour?

Fischer