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Need opinions with new set up


Guest Valerie in Utah
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Guest Valerie in Utah

Although I've ridden soft boots for 12 years, you'd never know it when you see me on my new hard boot board set up. It looks like my first day on a a snowboard! It is completely different, and I'm having a VERY hard time learning. I have no control just getting down the mtn; let alone trying to carve. Can you take a look at my set up and see if I should turn my binding angle or anything? I've included photos next to one of my other boards. As you can see, I'm used to a sideways stance. I don't want to turn my bindings just to make it feel more like my soft boot boards. If I am supposed to have such a forward stance, then I'll keep trying until I get the hang of it.

Thanks so much for your help!:1luvu:

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What angles are you running? Yesterday was my first day on an alpine board after softbooting for 8 years. The trick I found is you have to learn to trust the board that was my biggest issue.Also picture what you want to do in your head, and tell yourself that you still snowboarding and its not that different.Well that seemed to work for me, even though I didn't ride anything other then greens:p

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1)you might want to decrease your stance length, it looks a bit too long, but I might be mistaken... Anyways, try to keep it 18-19" center to center and center it on the running length...

2)Your setup is fine, it's your input that matters. I have the same problem right now with my g/f... She has tons of exp. with a softy deck, but has hard time getting riding a carving stick...

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Alexey, how can you reccomend a stance width without knowing how tall she is? It's like telling someone that a board is fine for them without knowing their weight and riding style... 18-19" may be fine for you but it would be way too narrow for me...

Valerie, the only comment I'd make is to start at equal angles with no cant, and start adjusting from there... width is personal preference, but I've always started with shoulder width and adjusted from there.

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bit of an advice: keep playing with the angles til you are comfortable with the most. yes it sucks to constantly fidget with the angles, but its what worked for me. i used to have high steep stances, and it was fast, yes but wasnt exactly optimal. adjust it a bit lower, and now im all dialed in.

just need to find a way to eithe rput up with stiff boots or soften 'em up somehow, myself.

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It's hard to tell from the pictures, but it looks like you are running the same binding angle in both bindings. You might want to turn your back foot about 5 degrees to the right (less-forward) than the front foot, at least to start out with. At this point a little overhang won't matter and it might make a big difference in control.

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I got started running my hardboots and bindings on my freeride board at fairly steep angles (around 45 degrees front/40 degrees back). That helped me make the transition from the back/front movement I was used to on soft gear to the more side-to-side movement on alpine gear. If you decide to try this, note that it will work best with a fairly stiff freeride board.

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The fastest way to success will be to go ride with someone who is experienced. Things that are hard to guess at on the internet will become plainly obvious in person. Getting a set-up dialed can involve a lot of experimenting, but someone who's been around the block a few times can get you 80% of the way there which will allow you to stop thinking about your gear and start thinking about your riding again.

Welcome to BOL and hardbooting :)

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I still remember my first days on hardboots well, as they were just a few years ago. I think your angles are high, especially for learning, but it's hard to see over the internet.

If I understand where you are in your riding right now, you're not looking to carve right now, but trying to make it so you feel comfortable making skid turns, and knowing that you can come to an emergency stop if necessary, etc.. Once you are comfortable skidding and stopping you have bailout options for when you learn to carve.

These are little tricks I picked up during those first few days. They are not necessarily good for carving but were good to get comfortable from softboots.

1) face the nose of the board when skidding heelside - otherwise your back knee catches on fire and explodes.

2) Loosen up your waist a lot - on softboots it is so easy to roll the ankles and move your weight fore and aft, but it's way harder to move your hips around in hardboots, so you have to do some of it by moving your upper body around (i.e. bend at the waist).

3) get back to the basics with the skidded turn - concentrate on putting weight on the front foot to get the nose to start going downhill, then weight on the back foot to push the tail and slow down.

4) the toeside feels really funny now, right, like you have no ankle control and you're 3 inches too tall? Don't worry, you get used to it really quick. You can put your boot in walk/powder mode and/or loosen your top buckles to make it feel a little better, or you can just suffer through it for the next few days.

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Guest Valerie in Utah

Wow, you guys are so awesome. I can't believe how many responses I've gotten in just a few hours!

I did read many of the tech articles, so I set up the bindings at what I thought were 60 degrees. I ordered a 3 cm front and 3 cm rear cant in the bindings, so I can not change them or take them out. At least that's what I thought I was doing, but I've never set up my own board before. Since I had no idea, I just went by the tech article recommendations. And after the first disasterous day, I read/printed everything I could find on the 'Net about alpine boarding "technique" and drills.

I am over 5 ' 10" and I made the stance nearly identical width as one of my other boards (which I can actually ride). The new board is a Donek.

I can't make it to the Wasatch Trenchin' Convention because I work every day they are here. [long story]

So in response to your suggestions, I'll 1) turn my back foot 5 degrees 2) put the boots in walk mode.

And then keep trying! :(

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just to point out, with the TD2 disks you can adjust the cant/lift ratio by rotating the disk.

its hard to read about stuff and put it into action. even if you cant make WTC, riding with any of those dudes would help you dramatically. not only that but you'll learn to hate "EC" as if it were the devil itself!

oh, also...as for forward lean...after you try walk mode (preference for quite a few here)...if you DO go back to locked in, keep in mind that it is usually best to have more lean on the rear foot than the front.

and...also, as far as angles go...just line the boots up with the edge of the board, and then maybe DOWN a couple degrees from there, as at this point, while learning, boot out shouldnt be a huge problem.

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Guest owaysys
Wow, you guys are so awesome. I can't believe how many responses I've gotten in just a few hours!

Valerie, one thing you will notice from this board is that NO ONE is short on opinions. And yes, I'll admit that this includes me.

I agree with the dude who recommended riding with someone experienced. I'm guessing that is how about 95% of the people on this message board learned how to ride plates (including me), since there are very few snowboard instructors in the country who teach on plates, and the only way you can learn from them is to hire them as a private coach. In that vein, I think there are some coaches on this board, so if you're down with throwing down serious cash to learn, then step right up!

I also agree with the guy who recommended just screwing around with you angles, stance width, canting, boot lean, etc. until you find something that works. I started riding at 45 degree angles on my front and back foot with like a 16-inch stance and no cant. Now I ride a 20 inch stance with cant on my rear foot, 60 degrees on my front binding and 57 on my rear. I think I probably rode about 15 different stance variations before I found one I liked. For reference, my soft boot stance is 22 inches wide, centered, with +12 on the front foot and -6 on the back (not making suggestions, just giving an example of how different soft vs. hard stances can be).

I don't suggest that you listen to people who give you numbers. Like how many inches your stance width should be, how many cm back from center on the board you should ride, what angles you should ride. Nobody rides the same setup, and you shouldn't be the first exception!

So yeah, have a blast learning! It's a super cool sport and I'm sure that you'll be making skiiers' jaws drop once you get the hang of it!

Cheers

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I am over 5 ' 10" and I made the stance nearly identical width as one of my other boards (which I can actually ride). The new board is a Donek.

:(

I'm 5'10" and ride about 19.5" stance width. Measure the base plates when you mount them (center to center - use the little :biggthump fingers as the center point.

If you matched your freestyle stance, I suspect you could go a lot narrower. Its impossible to tell from the photos.

As D-sub suggested, having some boot overhang won't be an issue for you for a while. Feel free to back off into the high 40's, low 50's even. Its hard to make the huge jump from F/S stance angles to 60 degrees all at once.

Another option: Just don't turn. Point the sucker straight down the hill! :flamethro:angryfire:freak3:

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I agree - FWIW my alpine stance is much narrower than my freeride stance, but as owaysis says, everybody rides different. But you may feel less awkward with your legs not so far apart, and, especially if you are light, have an easier time getting the Donek to bend as well (looks like a stiff Freecarve, and not the softer Axis?)

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Just got back from a day at PC - fun! Lots of snow - not the ultimate carving day, but TONS of fun! Tomorrow will be really good.

Utah riders: Get up there! Fin, Michelle and the Hardbooter crew are up and have a TON of gear for demo! They'll be at PC again tomorrow morning.

Hi Valerie!

I live off Antelope and 1450 E.

Give me a call and we can hook up.

Kirk

544-2349

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........ It looks like my first day on a a snowboard! It is completely different, and I'm having a VERY hard time learning. I have no control just getting down the mtn; let alone trying to carve.............

Me to, me to!

The first day I was ready to throw it all in the bin:rolleyes:

So....I dropped the angles back to the same as my softboot angles. That instantly solved 80% of my problems.(I also dedicated one whole morning to "ONLY" doing the norm as perfectly as I could.)

I`ve been bumping the angles up each time I ride. If the alpine rig won`t take that, you could try your hardboots on the board that you are already familar with.

I`ve now had five days on hardboots and I`m thinking I might throw the softy set-up in the bin.:rolleyes:

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Valerie - if you can, get up to Park City and hook up with the gang from http://hardbooter.com/ their session is on now thru Feb 5th.

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=9707

Yeah , I would love to be there. You have a great set up. When I switched over to hardboots(thank www.hardbooter.com) they put me at 55-55. I HATED IT. when i got my board and bindings i am running like 68-49. dont ask me why they are like that but It worked great for me. dont go with the standards whats suits you best is what is best for you.

scott

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