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Toe side turns revisited.


Miguel
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A few we days ago there was a thread about toe side turns and where the body should be facing. I mentioned that I face the front of the board during toe side turns. It was suggested that I was counter rotating and that wasn't a good thing. Check out the photos submitted by Scott Firestone....specifically the toeside turns. Almost every rider is facing the front while turning to the toe side. This is what I do and it works well for me. Is there some negative aspect of turning that way and if so, why are so many people doing it?

Miguel

http://www.alpinecarving.com/wtc06/wed.html

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Just looking at a picture does not give you the whole picture. For me it depends on what comes first. If you wind up your upper body towards nose ( I am assuming you mean nose when you say front) and then the board follows - that is not the most efficient way IMO. If you are doing crossunder carves the upper bod stays generally facing the fall line and the board crosses under your body to the next carve.

Normally I like to teach alignment with the angles of the feet as a base and then work back and forth from there with the movement and turning forces, starting in the feet, ankles and knees with the hip and upper body following the movement that starts from the ground up.

If you find yourself skidding out a lot on heelside, having trouble initiating toe turns, having to fling your arms around to turn and unable to ride powder at all on toeside you are rotating too much to the nose and and or counter rotating. But without seeing someone ride it is hard to tell.

In reference to the photos of WTC I see a lot of the riders riding over their feet with the basic alignment. The more race style carvers are definitely facing forward (towards the nose) but that is typically a different type of turn. If it works for you that is the important thing.

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Guest jschal01

www.chrisklug.com

Go to the media center there and look at the stills & video, people may not agree with recent events vis a vis Olympic selection but I'd still pick his toeside over any in the linked photos. He is keeping his inside shoulder up, but his hips and shoulder are not towards the front of the board. His "angulation" is coming from his spine, not from spinning his hips.

The negatives to facing the front: discussed ad nauseum, but chatter, caught edges, ending up in the backseat, being somewhat blocked mechanically, etc. are some of them. Personally I think it also causes more back strain.

I could go to a NASTAR course and find a lot of good skiers counterrotating in the mistaken belief that it is part of modern ski racing technique, too.

Some people ride very well that way, though. If it's working for you and you're having fun, that fact that it may have disadvantages in certain applications is no reaosn not to do it.

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The two sets of pics are interesting. Its more noticeable in the Klug photos, but if you look carefully you'll often see that folks have their shoulders aligned more toward their binding/hip angles and their head turned toward the nose. Unless you've studied yourself on film (still or moving), I think it is hard to discern whether you are aligning your shoulders, or just your head, toward the nose.

I guess I need to get to an SES so I can have 3-4 great coaches break down my technique.

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Check out the photos submitted by Scott Firestone....specifically the toeside turns. Almost every rider is facing the front while turning to the toe side. This is what I do and it works well for me. Is there some negative aspect of turning that way and if so, why are so many people doing it?

I would say that there are some pictures in which you can see very ugly position that give you the feeling for the rider to be not stable and balanced.

You can surf the style you prefer but you should explain what "it works well for me" means. Works in order to do what? To carve on wonderful snow? To touch the snow with your uphill hand? What about being in perfect control on steep and icy slopes? Can you carve also there facing the front of the board on the frontside? Questions. Just questions.

But I agree with people that say that you cannot say "this is wrong style" from a picture! A picture doesn't give you the past and future story of that curve!

In very fast (and tight) slalom curves (cross-under style), the board moves under you and your torso is facing almost the same direction all the time.

So...

Every picture means nothing. It could be just a frame before the rider fall, or everythig else. ;-)

From one picture you cannot gain precious information about style.

But if you say that you face the tip of the board in the frontside carve and the frontside edge during a backside carve... well... it will be not too difficult that your position will not be so efficient.

Just my opinion (due to the fact that I've just came back from a riding day in which I saw very ugly styles of rider that was believing to be "unbeatable"!

One was seeming to swim in the air, so convinced that he was putting a lot of pressure in the edge...while he was counterrotaing in the worst way I've seen.

Obviously, as the slope was getting steeper and the snow was getting harder... PAFF! Maybe his butt, tonight, will remind him that something is wrong with his technique.

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