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Should I learn how to ski after all these years?


Frank Morales
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Never thought I'd ask this question but here it goes . Every once in awhile I think that maybe I missed something not learning how to ski.I've always traced the roots of every thing else I've ever done when I was learning how to play guitar it was Robert Johnson surfing it was the old Hawaiians.But the first time I ever tried sking my friends took me to the top of the hill and said

see ya later we'll meet you at the bottom. I was in levis and a sweatshirt you know the type? By the time I got to the bottom I could barely snowplow.Anyway my friends really got a kick out of that one.But also on this trip I'd brought a Sims skiboard and deciced to give it a try and the end of the day hiking up a little powder shute that I spotted on the side of the road.This time my friends were sitting and waiting for me tired and wanting to go home.Well that first run was all it took and I never looked back or at another pair of skis .After 25 years I'm thinking maybe I should try it one more time.You know the roots thing or should I get past it .I used to see skiers as the enemy how stupid is that.I know alot good snowboards that still ski and they rip.So my question is how many of you still ski and did it help you to become a better carver?

Frank

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Guest Tim Tuthill

Ok guys and gals: Let me tell you about Frank! Not only is he a great guy, he is one hell of a surfer and snowboarder. He raced for Tom Sims in 1981,82 in Europe. You should see the collection of the first boards Sims and he made in Santa Barbara. They were the first to board in the LA mountains in the late 70"S. Now I haven't skied since 92 but I might this year in Park City??

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I say why not? If you're up for a new challenge, go for it. That's why I took up snowboarding after 20 years of skiing - for the challenge.

Both are good and they are totally different for me. I'm much more agile and versatile on skis than a board. I can hop around the bumps, make 3 turns to 1, ride mashed potatoes, death cookies, you name it. On an alpine board, let's face it, we all want cordoroy.

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I love being able to do both, I purchased some Head Skis last year with a turning radius of 13m, I love em. I actually think carving on a board helped carving on my skis. I hadn't skied for over 9 years just learning to carve on my boards, last year my bro finally talked me into trying some shaped skis. Thank goodness I kept my Nordica boots around after all these years. I rented a pair of Rossi Bandits in a 170, when I stopped skiing my skis were 205 minimum. I jumped on a pr of the shaped skis and right away you could feel the ski wanting to carve, with just a little edge control on my part I could rail some turns. YIPEE!!

I would recommend learning to ski, hell, us snoboarders gave the technology to the skiers so they can have just as good as time on the snow as us hardboot riders.

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If you have interest, go for it!

Upside: <UL><LI>The more things you do, the more fun you have.<LI> Ripping arcs (or bumps, pow, or steeps) is fun whatever the gear. <LI>The challenge of learning something new can be positive and profound.</UL>

Downside: <UL><LI>The more things you do, the more equipment you have to buy. <LI>In time, you have to add a 'gear wing' to your home. <LI>You can't do both at the same time--you will sacrifice some boarding time when you are on skis.

<img src="http://tinypic.com/fzb2mh.jpg" alt="Chris Heidebrecht: hip draggin', Keystone, CO">

If you have any interest, do it. But on a pair of deep sidecut skis to get the full effect.

Mi dos centavos,

B-2

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dude, boostertwo,

tell me about it. you can definitly say that again about the downside. i got 8 snowboards(184 rossi wc, 158 madd, pj7 172, libtech innercourse 5'7", libtech litigator 172, "" Emma Peel 159, magne traction 164, and scotty wittlake 158), a pair of skis, and 5 pair of boots. -sigh- its eaten up my closest at timberridge (time to put 'em in my locker out at chair 12).

speaking of housing, you get to find a housing to your suit? i haven't seen much of 'em via word of mouth.

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I'd say go for it. I split my time 50/50 (sometimes the same day as in these shots at Telluride).

hrblu8.jpg

Last season I ran into a friend who, like me, is pushing 60. He's been a hard core plate rider for a dozen years and he was back on skis. He said he just wanted to try out carving on skis with sidecut and he had been using them for several weeks. I don't think he's in any danger of leaving "the dark side" permanently but he's enjoying an alternate means of transport.

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Heya Frank - I skiied for over 30 years before turning to the board. I was an expert skiier and hit most any terrian. In my opinion I see no comparison in technique, or experience; although when I skiied there were no parabolics so I'm sure that changes the ski carve level. Even still skidding around agressively as I have for a number of years (soon to be carving on the board you sent):) I find the board much more freeing and exciting. I believe it is soul surfing on the snow.

The flip side of course is sure - what've you got to lose?, try it! I really enjoyed skiing,,,,until I strapped on a board that izzz ;)

Btw I too play the 6 string plank. 'matter of fact I build them - please accept the shameless plug & check out my site if you want: http://www.gmreszel.com

Greg

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I was just lookin' at boostertwo's pic of the skiier doing the cut. He appears to be carving but not keeping the skiis tight together like we were taught years ago. Must be the parabolic edge is more forgiving then?

I was also thinking that the way they used to teach us to ski parallel makes me think they were trying to teach us to make 2 skiis one....um, like a board? :D

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I was just lookin' at boostertwo's pic of the skiier doing the cut. He appears to be carving but not keeping the skiis tight together like we were taught years ago. Must be the parabolic edge is more forgiving then?

"Ski Like Stein" with the ankles pinched together is rarely seen these days. A few holdovers from an earlier time still practice that hip swinging form. It was popular at the time I quit skiing in 1962. When I resumed the sport in 1996 parabolic skis were just becoming popular and I learned to keep my feet separated. Old habits die hard. I can keep a fair amount of space between the feet but not the knees. Note my "A-frame" stance below. My right ski is just along for the ride and is doing no work. Look at photos of the racers who know what they're doing and you'll see the lower legs at the same angles.

hrbsps.jpg

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Grew up skiing for 20 years before surfing the snow evolved. It took years to transition to mainly boarding mostly because most of my friends still skiied FAST and you just couldn't keep up with clunky gear and softies.Until....the hardboots and raceboards started to happen( I even rode a PJ with Burton 3 strap hi back binders before that).I aspire to get a nice pair of race shape skiis this year.Many of my ski buds snowboard and ski 50/50 and THEY aspire to learn to hardboot snowboard, so it's all relative.If I had to learn to ski again, I dunno.Even skiiers that want to learn to snowboard, I say just go snowboard for a few hours in the morning when you're fresh and then go ski and GO FAST and have fun.FRANK, incidently, do you still have any clout/connections with Sims ? They used to be great with warrantys and replacing boards but now it's all dead ears at Sims. I rode Tom's board, the Soul Carve 159 and 160 for years. Both delamm'd and were replaced no prob.The last warranty was a T Sims 169 and now it's delamm'd but I've pretty much given up on the warranty dept.Now I'm on an Avalanche Tom Burt(warranty for a Jim Zellers 171) and soon will be on a Winterstick Tom Burt 172, when I'm not on skinny race boards that is.Gotta represent for the old school companys like Avalanche, Winterstick and Kemper (NOT) and Sims (hopefully again). Skiing is still fun (esp at MAD River) but surfing the snow still rules uber alles. Burner 167 split tail at Mt Snow ! Thanks Pat !

post-123-141842208848_thumb.jpg

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Learn to ski, by all means. It’s fun. It’s same but different (same principles, different motorics). More versatile and more things you can do, like: carve both skis, carve outer ski only, carve inner ski only, do linked turns on one ski only (this is often a jaw dropper for spectators), not even to mention skidding the turns and snow-plough ;)

I even dare to say that skiing is more physically demanding than snowboarding (at least for me).

Talking about myself, I have ski background, but that was one of the things that made me want to ride the hard boots, and trying to carve the board right from the beginning. Then, learning to carve the board properly made me better carver on the skis, too.

When it comes to pure carving sensation, I prefer the board. For all the rest – skis.

Then the roots of sport… Park hordes would tell you – skateboarding :(.

I think it’s fair to say it’s surfing and skiing, both. Surfing for the stance and overall idea of the tool, skiing for the very idea that you could do it on the snow, plus the technology. Contrary to the popular belief, the concept of side cut does not come from snowboard – it comes from good old ski. The very first snowboards mostly had convex side cut like surfboards and no camber or edges (correct me if I’m wrong), while the skis had all of that for decades already. Yes, the concave side cuts radiuses on skis were very long, but you could still carve them! A pair of Elan Omni Lites that I bought in mid ’80 had noticeably deeper SC and widest part of shovel further forward than any other manufacturer… For the first time, after many years, there was no longitudinal groove in the centre of the base either. When I asked the tech people about the changes, answer was “our research shows that 75% of modern skiing is on the edge…”

When snowboards dropped the surf technology (convex SC, reversed camber, even skegs on some), and adopted ski technology (concave SC, steel edges and camber), they became, more or less, what they are now.

Due to the fact that snowboards were shorter and wider, the SC concept has been taken to the extreme. Ski manufacturers have seen the light and applied the shorter radiuses to the skis.

Verdict? Skiing and Snowboarding have a lot in common and have learned from each other and exchanged technologies. It’s even more true for alpine, as we share the boot technology, too.

Boris

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a little flippant with my earlier post. I know that a lot of carvers on the forum ride Coiler, Donek etc. But in regards to T Sims I think my Burner 197 is the finest board I have ever ridden. I have two and a 188.

So back to finding the mother of the carve. You are probably doing it on your surf board. Now you have the frozen wave. I don't see how two skis can relate to the snow in the same way that one long plank-edge etc can.

I have surfing visions all the time when carving. I think of the long high speed cat roads here as tubes or breaks. I-80 is a popular one and for me it is toeside bottom turn as I surf the wall all the way to Olympic.

Boarding is so much more about body movement relating to one plane of interaction with the frozen goodness. Skiing with all that knee angulation, feet going different directions, releasable whatever. And I used to ski.

Complicate your life with all that stuff- again for me the answer is no thank you. Boarding is about simplifying your life.

One surface, one edge, one ride.

Best,

Jerry

No offense to all who slide both ways. I have found the path for me.

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Go for it! :biggthump

I started on skis 27 years ago, and go into snowboard carving about 5 years ago. I have noticed that snowboarding has helped my skiing, and skiing has helped my snowboarding. At this point, I use my skis for bumps/trees/pow, and my board for groom/icey slopes.

As mentioned above, the only downside is the extra gear, and deciding wether to ski or snowboard. :freak3:

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I was just lookin' at boostertwo's pic of the skiier doing the cut. He appears to be carving but not keeping the skiis tight together like we were taught years ago. Must be the parabolic edge is more forgiving then?

I was also thinking that the way they used to teach us to ski parallel makes me think they were trying to teach us to make 2 skiis one....um, like a board? :D

The boots glued together thing hasn't been in vogue for decades. Even with pre-parabolics, independant leg action is the thing. If you're just making short swing turns, then you can keep a close stance but when you lay them way out like in that pic, there's no way to hold the edge unless you have good leg seperation. But you can see pics of downhill racers from the 60s and 70s that show the same sort of leg positioning.

In the bumps I find you need your legs together, nothing screws me up more than having my feet at way different levels. Haven't tried the new skis (mine are vintage 1990 or so I think) but I don't think that has changed - in fact competitive bumpers still use pretty straight, narrow skis.

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Another that started skiing 27 years ago. Once I got both feet on the same surface I never looked back. My wife says skiing looks boring.

I dont want to go back for fear of that propeller on the bottom of my foot might spin and my 4 scope knee really would not be happy.

I see far more knee damage potential on skiis then on board like we ride.

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You people crack me up! Skiing has come a long way! You mite find one complements the other. Open your mind and your edges will follow.

Now that cracks me up. My mind is open and I know what works for me and that is the purity of boarding that skiing will never touch no matter how far it progresses.

IMHO

Jerry

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If you really want to get in touch with the roots of the sport, try telemark skiing. The freeheel turn was the way downhill skiing was done, from the 1860's until around WW2. Google up Sondre Norheim, the forefather of modern skiing. He not only developed the tele turn but made his own skis, he was using the concept of sidecut to ski better in the 1800's!

The turn is a bit lower and "surfier", more snowboard like. Plus, you can support Fin and Bomber Industries, Bomber makes the Bishop tele binding (best in the industry for lift served tele carving) and Donek makes tele skis (with threaded inserts) to mate to the Bishops.

Downhill skiing (alpine or tele) is complimentary to snowboarding. I find that I'm a better snowboarder for skiing and vice versa.

The learning curve for alpine skiing is longer than snowboarding, longer yet for tele. But, the alpine skillsets largely carry over to tele, you can also do alpine (parallel) turns on tele gear.

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