All Japanese Carving Snowboards are now available in North America

[Sunan]

After several years of preparations, all the Japanese carving brands, Gray, Moss, Ogasaka, Yonex, and BC Stream, are here. 

Some high-end snowboards such as:

Moss Twister, Twister Pro（2324）, Legit（2425）

Gray Desperado Ti Type-R

Yonex Symarc MG

Ogasaka XC

BC Stream RX Ti (semi hammer)

Ogasaka FC-S (semi hammer)

Yonex Thrust (semi hammer)

Moss RRR Ti (semi hammer)

More friendly beginner-intermediate level boards such as:

Gray Delight

Moss TWFD

Yonex Symarc 

Ogasaka XC-R

BC  Stream H

BC Stream RX (semi hammer)

Moss RRR (semi hammer)

 

Round head boards like MACH are also in North America now. 

 

 

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Is there somewhere we can see where they are available from, how to get them, and how much they cost? 

[Sunan]

4 hours ago, ShortcutToMoncton said:

Is there somewhere we can see where they are available from, how to get them, and how much they cost? 

Currently it’s available at two shops at Powderbowl LLC in NY and NJ. I’d expecte these boards to be available in more locations in the near future. the boards are anywhere from $800 (Gray Delight) to $1700. (BC Stream RX Ti , limited 100 per season). The typical high-end boards such as Legit and Type-R are around $1500. The Type-Rs are usually sold out before the season starts, so some sizes are already unavailable for the 24-25 season. 

Edited August 20 by Sunan

[Jack M]

Interesting, thanks for the heads up.  No info on their site yet.

https://www.powderbowl.com/

[barryj]

On 8/19/2024 at 8:44 PM, Sunan said:

Moss Twister, Twister Pro（2324

Great to hear Sunan!   As a longtime Moss Snowstick PQ60 enthusiast, the more the merrier!   

 Does Moss have more than one web presence?    They don't list any Alpine boards on their Snowstick website:    https://www.mosssnowstick.com/24-25

[SunSurfer]

@barryj Check out the snowboard manufacturer list to find Moss snow boards vs. snowsticks. Separate websites = yes.

 

[barryj]

8 hours ago, SunSurfer said:

manufacturer list to find Moss snow boards

Got it , Thanks!

Even with Google translator the  Moss snowboard individual board descriptions were still in Japanese but the Moss Legit looks like a Softboot carver and the NSR line their only hardboot line for Moss.   

Wish I had known of the Moss Snowboard Q60 before I ordered the 2025 Moss Snowstick PQ60 EX .........    would have been an interesting comparison to my current PQ60.

[dredman]

Wow! When will we get to see a website with in stock gear and specifications?

[barryj]

1 hour ago, dredman said:

When will we get to see a website with in stock gear and specifications?

Ditto!   

[Sunan]

On 8/21/2024 at 8:00 AM, Jack M said:

Interesting, thanks for the heads up.  No info on their site yet.

https://www.powderbowl.com/

I suppose it’ll be online soon. Currently there are a lot of posts on Instagram. Tommie Bennett reposted ins stories of Powderbowl about two weeks ago. 

2 hours ago, dredman said:

Wow! When will we get to see a website with in stock gear and specifications?

I have acquired some of the catalog info on Gray, Moss, Ogasaka, and Yonex. The files are too big, so I’m only sending a few pictures of their hammerheads&alpine boards, and some snowsticks. 

[Sunan]

3 hours ago, dredman said:

Wow! When will we get to see a website with in stock gear and specifications?

 

1 hour ago, barryj said:

Ditto!   

Hey guys, check out the pictures posted above. That's most of the hammerheads these brands currently carry, I think. for BC Stream, I don't believe there's a downloadable catalog at this time.  

[barryj]

1 hour ago, Sunan said:

pictures posted

Love it!

Hey Sunan how about some prices for the Moss lineup shown please.  

[GeoffV]

@Shred Gruumer will be all over this he'll take 1 of each please 

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Can’t wait til they have a waist width over 260ish

I guess Bruce has spoiled me greatly but the price discrepancy is beyond absurd at this point. But beautiful boards though! 

[Sunan]

On 8/23/2024 at 12:52 AM, barryj said:

Love it!

Hey Sunan how about some prices for the Moss lineup shown please.  

Here are the prices. Moss has two brands, Moss Snowboards focusing on carving, technical riding, banked slalom, SBX, and SL/GS; Moss Snowstick focusing on powder boards, managed by a US company. Both brands are made by Moss’ factory in Japan. Moss also makes three product lines for Gentemstick (the remaining Gentemstick products are made in China). 

[Sunan]

10 hours ago, ShortcutToMoncton said:

Can’t wait til they have a waist width over 260ish

I guess Bruce has spoiled me greatly but the price discrepancy is beyond absurd at this point. But beautiful boards though! 

Yep. The manufacturing cost was fairly high as they handcrafted and manually checked every piece in Japan. They have plenty of boards going 260mm+  waist. 

[barryj]

4 hours ago, Sunan said:

Moss Snowboards "vs" Moss Snowstick

Hey Sunan, thanks for those Moss prices! 

Not sure if your the Moss aficionado to ask this but Moss Snowboards has a Q60 which you don't list, and Moss Snowstick has the PQ60 and the PQ60 EX.  They all three are the same board shape.

I know the Moss EX versions are beautiful limited productions and 20% stiffer but I know nothing about the Moss Q60 snowboard.

What's  Moss say as to why choose one over the other??    

[Sunan]

10 hours ago, barryj said:

Hey Sunan, thanks for those Moss prices! 

Not sure if your the Moss aficionado to ask this but Moss Snowboards has a Q60 which you don't list, and Moss Snowstick has the PQ60 and the PQ60 EX.  They all three are the same board shape.

I know the Moss EX versions are beautiful limited productions and 20% stiffer but I know nothing about the Moss Q60 snowboard.

What's  Moss say as to why choose one over the other??    

Hi Barry! That's a very specific question, so I went to verify a few things. 

Moss 24-25 has 81 different prices for different products. And 4 of them need to be discussed here. 

Moss Snowboards

Q60 @$1079

Moss Snowstick

PQ60 @$1320

PQ60 Fishbone @$1590

PQ60 EX @$1470

The first difference is between the Snowboard and Snowstick. The former is a snowboard per se， and it considers the probability of using the board on groomed trails. So the board is more balanced in terms of longitudinal weight distribution. While having the same rocker nose and flat camber in the back, the Q60 does not intentionally try to improve powder performance at the expense of groomer stability. The running length, for example, is over 109mm longer than the snowsticks and thus makes Q60 more stable on groomers. The remainder differences will be discussed below. 

The latter is a Snowstick, or a snowsurf board. It focuses a lot more on the surfing feel than the on-piste carving capability. With that in mind, the board puts more weight towards the nose of the board, and that requires a lot of focus on getting pressure on the hind leg and driving with the hind leg to stay in control. So for the three snowsticks, it is more difficult to carve well, and may take longer for the rider to get used to riding primarily with the hind leg (to prevent washing out). The setback distance on the Snowstick is a different metric from the one used on the Snowboard section. 

  The  Snowsticks also made the following adaptations.

1) The snowsticks use a 3D nose that is spoon-like, allowing the board to float like a boat. This does not help carving performance. 

2) The snowsticks use a concaved tail, fully considering the fluid dynamics of the powder, allowing the snow to "exhaust" more quickly between the two tail points. 

For female versions, PQ49(usually the most beautiful one) for example, the tail used extra abrasive material at the concave spots to increase friction. That way even if a girl points downhill directly, she won't go too fast. 

3) The tail is longer to give the board more tail-side control even on a higher edging angle on powder. 

4) The board overall is a bit wider, so that the snowsticks get better flow. 

Now the three PQ snowsticks.  PQ60 is the standard Performance Quad. PQ60 EX mixes poplar and cherry wood and is 2/10 stiffer with a wood top-sheet. The  PQ60 Fishbone uses a different way to lay out its wood core and uses a transparent top-sheet to make the core visible. And it looks like a FISHBONE. The Fishbone version is torsionally softer and longitudinally slightly softer than the standard PQ60, so it's 1/10 softer than the standard PQ60. 

I may need to talk with the chairman of Moss to gain more insight into the designs lol. 

You can take a look at Kojiro Kikuta's riding. He's called "king in the north" by Japanese people as he is based in Hokkaido and dominates everything there. He, as one of Moss' top riders, uses both its carving snowboard (primarily Legit) and several different snowsticks, depending on the situation. 

 

Edited August 25 by Sunan

[Pat Donnelly]

7 hours ago, Sunan said:

You can take a look at Kojiro Kikuta's riding. He's called "king in the north" by Japanese people as he is based in Hokkaido and dominates everything there. He, as one of Moss' top riders, uses both its carving snowboard (primarily Legit) and several different snowsticks, depending on the situation. 

Opening clip 

 

[barryj]

11 hours ago, Sunan said:

specific question

Hey Sunan,  thanks for that great info.

I've been a Moss snowstick enthusiast  for ten years or so and am on my 3rd PQ60 currently.  I'm  very lucky  that one of the local shops here in  Truckee is a  Moss Snowstick dealer and they carry the whole Snowstick line for sale and in their demo fleet.  I started with the U5 which is great all around board and will carve and ended up on the PQ60 after demoing 6 or more other models.

I love the surfy feel of all these boards but the PQ60 loves the pow and the groom...and it wants to carve.   I ride the PQ's in Bomber TD3's and softer hardboots which makes it very responsive but doesn't sacrifice anything in the pow imo.  I think the Moss boards are Renaissance boards that can do it all..... you can float the 3ft pow and then lay it out on the groomers....on the same run!  with no adjusting of stance or backset.  I've said it before here that if I only could own 1 board this would be it.  Of course I have  Too Many boards, so I baby the Moss PQ and only use it for pow days which was easily over 20 last season.

I've ordered the Moss PQ60 EX which I thought also comes in a see through wood core top sheet like the Fishbone version..... looking forward to seeing the difference in performance when I get it out.

Thanks again Sunan for your in depth response!

[Sunan]

15 hours ago, Pat Donnelly said:

Opening clip 

 

This is what I know about these riders, in the order they appeared in the intro video. 

11 hours ago, barryj said:

Hey Sunan,  thanks for that great info.

I've been a Moss snowstick enthusiast  for ten years or so and am on my 3rd PQ60 currently.  I'm  very lucky  that one of the local shops here in  Truckee is a  Moss Snowstick dealer and they carry the whole Snowstick line for sale and in their demo fleet.  I started with the U5 which is great all around board and will carve and ended up on the PQ60 after demoing 6 or more other models.

I love the surfy feel of all these boards but the PQ60 loves the pow and the groom...and it wants to carve.   I ride the PQ's in Bomber TD3's and softer hardboots which makes it very responsive but doesn't sacrifice anything in the pow imo.  I think the Moss boards are Renaissance boards that can do it all..... you can float the 3ft pow and then lay it out on the groomers....on the same run!  with no adjusting of stance or backset.  I've said it before here that if I only could own 1 board this would be it.  Of course I have  Too Many boards, so I baby the Moss PQ and only use it for pow days which was easily over 20 last season.

I've ordered the Moss PQ60 EX which I thought also comes in a see through wood core top sheet like the Fishbone version..... looking forward to seeing the difference in performance when I get it out.

Thanks again Sunan for your in depth response!

Yep. Advanced riders and many alpine riders can capture the hind foot pressure easily so the only flaw that Snowsticks have is taken care of. 
 

  Looking forward to your review on the 60PQ EX

Edited August 26 by Sunan

[Kneel]

Shit.  This place is dangerously close.  If I didn't already order a Thirst Tonya AND Her Ugly Sister I might be compelled to leave with something.  Hey @Mr Wonton, detour after Orange Juliususes at the mall? 

[Mr Wonton]

6 hours ago, Kneel said:

Shit.  This place is dangerously close.  If I didn't already order a Thirst Tonya AND Her Ugly Sister I might be compelled to leave with something.  Hey @Mr Wonton, detour after Orange Juliususes at the mall? 

We could then join the K-mob! We’ll have to swing by Home Depot to get something to make the seat of our pants more durable for all the butt drags we’ll be doing. Mmmmm…..orange julius….and a funnel cake….

[TVR]

My only comment on these Japanese boards would be the steel for the edges most likely is probably some of the best in the world. Japan makes the best cutlery, due to their steel, and if these hold to that pattern, I suspect these edges will sharpen up to a level like no other.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

I mean, it depends on the steel, but I wouldn’t expect much difference. Most Japanese cutlery is made with carbon steel, which wouldn’t be suitable for board edges. And their super-hard stainless steels are really nice, but in some forms it’s so hard it would likely make it more difficult to actually sharpen. So there would be downsides to super-hard steel too.