willywhit Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 Now that the obligatory "biggots and faggots" rally is hopefully over, does anyone have some more useful input? I'm interested to know what a stiffy soft setup would be. I'd love to hear Vin's take since he's got keys to the toy store and has weeded out everything that doesn't work well. Beyond old K2 clickers and flows, I have no idea what a good softie setup would be. This thread has well over 900 looks in 4 days.People wanna know. WHAT is THE STIFFIEST soft boot set up out there? Am I a terminal intermediate if I can't seem to lay down carves on the steep, icey bumped up double blacks?<><> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grady Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 jack you are 100% right, that stuff adds nothing to the discussion. Doug, what angles are you riding with your setup, is there any way I could keep my 60 degree angles, that is what I find most comfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shred Gruumer Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 Ja, guffa glemesch stanaseich! U no how long it tuuk me to get on dis tread, man this must be the fastest moving tread in history! Sloooow down, vas its dis! Ja, I wood have to agrrree dat if I could, I wuud ride a das soft boat everytime. Vay better dan hard. day are to stiff and put to much leverage on my board and den I turn to quick! I have to get really low, and den I don't see the seancery as much! I don't like it like dat, dats why I am been moving to softy boots much better now I can ride side ways! awesome feeling when riding plus my toes act as a high performace brembo breaks, just do a toe turn and you can check your speed! I don't like the instant transition or da precise interface it give you either, board to stiff to, can never fold the nose over like I can do with a free board, so much better. And the alpine board is to fast from edge to egde on my 24 cm waist free ride board it only takes me to 20seconds to go edge to zie edge, much gooder! I kant karve as good on my alpine anymore the advance in Softies has helped me better! Just looky at all the advances in Soft free ride stuff! the new Deluux softboots the Indy and Suzuka's and the free ride boards the Silbertfiels are awesome. Out here in da mother land Virus make good free ride stuff to called the Phantom's and the Cybog. So dats why I ride free ride and softies. Right Said Shred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Doug M Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 The set up that I have ended up to be Nitro Havok boots,Catek freeride bindings and a 169 Ride yukon.I have a 28.5 foot and the Board is 27 cm Wide.If the solomon malamute boot is a 2 on a scale of 1-5 the havok is a 5.At 6,1 and 195 pounds the malamutes are too soft for me to carve on all day.Vin weighs about 140 and this combined with his height seems to be the ticket for him.My front foot is around 40 degrees and the rear in the low twenties to prevent any boot out.The boot is stiff enough for quick transistions but still soft enough to be forgiving. I have some thoughts on why it can carve so hard for a soft setup and I would like to bounce it off some of you to see if you agree or disagree.I am not totally sure myself but here it goes. When we carve it is very important to be able to get the board to a very high angle off the snow in as short of time period as possible.As we make a transistion from heal to toe we try to duplicate this as quick as possible on the opposite edge While keeping body posistion.....Cross over, cross under.Euro..... Once the board is at that high angle I notice that the amount of pressure on the boot seems to lesson compared to the act of actually getting it up on edge.Almost as if you direct more pressure to the center of the board during the carve where boot stiffness is less important.But you still need a certain level of boot stiffness in order to make the transistion fast and hard.I am sure someone might be able to prove or dissprove what I noticed using physics. I am sorry this post seems to have caused a bit of a problem.I meant it to be fun,figure out what other riders are thinking out there,And bounce some Ideas off people.It's all Good. Doug M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 was Flexible Axel's using Switch stepins. I noticed a certain amount of vagueness not during transition but once set into the edge. It always felt like my boot was flexing under me when pushing the board. Always noticed this more on the toeside edge. Ran35f/25r for angles on a Sims all-mountain 160. The Axel had 2 straps on it, one for forward lean and was as stiff a freeride boot as I could find, almost as stiff as the original Clicker stiff boots.(rode those too) My $.02 American Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 Originally posted by Doug M I have some thoughts on why it can carve so hard for a soft setup and I would like to bounce it off some of you to see if you agree or disagree.I am not totally sure myself but here it goes. When we carve it is very important to be able to get the board to a very high angle off the snow in as short of time period as possible.As we make a transistion from heal to toe we try to duplicate this as quick as possible on the opposite edge While keeping body posistion.....Cross over, cross under.Euro..... Once the board is at that high angle I notice that the amount of pressure on the boot seems to lesson compared to the act of actually getting it up on edge.Almost as if you direct more pressure to the center of the board during the carve where boot stiffness is less important.But you still need a certain level of boot stiffness in order to make the transistion fast and hard.I am sure someone might be able to prove or dissprove what I noticed using physics. I find that at high speed, I really need to pressure the nose of the board at the turn initiation. If you don't want to take my word for it, Mark Fawcett wrote an article about the importance of this for Snowboard Life a few years ago. Softboots/bindings just don't have the lateral support for this and other maneuvers. I am sorry this post seems to have caused a bit of a problem.I meant it to be fun,figure out what other riders are thinking out there,And bounce some Ideas off people.It's all Good. Not at all Doug, it's a great thread, very interesting. If you're having fun on a particular setup, that's great, and people need to hear it. -Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason_watkins Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 Originally posted by Doug M If the solomon malamute boot is a 2 on a scale of 1-5 the havok is a 5. Well, that got my attention. I'm about Vin's weight and using malmutes... but lately they've been feeling packed out. Can you detail how the havok and malamute compare a bit more? I don't turn my boot more than 30, and even then, it feels a little soft laterally. Is the havok stiffer sideways? They fit skinny feet as well as salomon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Doug M Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 I have very narrow feet and they are one of the best fitting boots I have worn.Lateral stiffness is very good and they do not compress when you crank down on your binding strap.They are one of the only soft boots that I have tried out of way too many to list that I can drive with my shins as opposed to your ankles.The result = no foot pain:cool: .For me anyway Doug M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason_watkins Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 Thanks Doug, I'm gonna check em out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Todd Stewart Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 I noticed that a lot of you cited that foot pain was holding you back from switching back to softies. If you are looking for a solution I would recommend drilling two hole at the tops of your high backs and adding a third strap to your binding. I cannot stress enough how this has improved my riding when in a softies setup, not only has it removed any pain which I once had but also has increased the power in my toe side turns dramatically. As for overhanging feet, I’m thinking about making some riser plates out of a plastic cutting board. Anyways my motto is softies for powder and trees, plates for everything else; which basically means my softies collect dust since I live in Ontario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 Once you've added a third strap and are in the stiffest soft boots you can find, what exactly about that setup is an improvement over a set of softish hard boots? I'm not asking rhetorically, I'd like to know. You can't bend your ankles sideways anymore to tweak anything, you're wrestling with 3 straps at the top and bottom of every lift and all for a reduced level of performance. Is there something in there I'm missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill Once you've added a third strap and are in the stiffest soft boots you can find, what exactly about that setup is an improvement over a set of softish hard boots? I'm not asking rhetorically, I'd like to know. You can't bend your ankles sideways anymore to tweak anything, you're wrestling with 3 straps at the top and bottom of every lift and all for a reduced level of performance. Is there something in there I'm missing? I'd say you're missing nothing - you've nailed it right on the head. -Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Doug M Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 I agree.At a certain point you might as well just ride the hard boots.It gets to be a fine line where one ends and the other begins. Doug M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Todd Stewart Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 Yeah you're right about the tweaking part, since i ride little pipe and park it dosn't have that much of an effect on me. The two main reasons i use the third strap is to take away all foot pain and to reduce the time spent readjusting myself to riding softies. To awnser you're question, personally I don't think I'd be able to ride power and glades as well in hard boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jagger Posted December 24, 2003 Report Share Posted December 24, 2003 Originally posted by Doug M If you could carve as hard on a soft set up as on your hardboot set up would you ever put on hard boots again.Imagine having the versatility of a soft boots while being able to lay out carves of a 170 cm alpine board......Hard boots might become a thing of the past.As a matter of fact it is becoming a thing of the past.10 years ago you could go to a mountain in the northeast and see 10 alpine riders at it.Now every 2 trips you might see one other. 7 years ago I was a buyer for one of the largest shops in the northeast and we sold over 120 alpine boards out of 1600 decks sold.Today that shop sells 0.What Happened????. The reason I bring this up is because I just put together a setup of catek fr bindings/Oxygen 70 quantum(27 cm wide) and Nitro Havok (super stiff soft boots).This settup carves as hard as many of the alpine decks I have had with the versitility and comfort of a soft boot...The Donek and atf 700's might see an early retirement.If you don't Believe it, just ask people who have seen Vin Q ride.He is a couple years ahead of the carving learning curve and figured it out a number of years ago.Keep an open mind and give it a try :D Doug M You can if yer good. Ive done it on my hauser fatchick only thing that aint there is the speed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.