Board shape: Is it worth going as narrow as you can?

[Eastsiiiide]

The narrowest waist I've used is 20cm (Alpine 168), but I've got these wonderfully short feet (~MP25) at steep angles, so I'm really curious how much value could be added to my experience by minimizing the width of the board with a custom build. I'm not interested in racing--just an aggressive all-mountain boarder who prefers hard boots.
So what are the narrowest (non-skwal) boards y'all are riding? And what are people's experiences with moving to a skinnier board? Mindblowing, or just Meh?  

Thanks!!!

[slabber]

Bruce recommended I go with 19cm on my new Contra.  I'm also blessed with small feet  and have 279mm shell UPZ RC11s.

I've got a 17.7cm wide Prior WCR 175cm.  The narrow widths are fun for quick edge to edge without a doubt.  That's the one thing I never liked about my Burton Factory Prime 5.7 200s.  I have another FP 5.7 190s that I will probably keep as it really does make those transitions that much quicker I find.  

 

[johnasmo]

Narrow for carving groomers, wide for surfing pow.  I don't bother with anything in between; two different sports.  Personally, I like 18 or 19 cm.  20 cm is max for me, and I'm mondo 28.5.  If your angles are less than 60/55 consider giving narrower a try.  Narrower boards have less leverage against your legs; they make carving feel smooth an effortless compared to wide boards.  More comfort, more fun.

[Corey]

Some like skinny, some like fat. Seems like 90% of the boards have a 20cm waist. I'll take 22cm over 18 any day of the week, but I have M28 boots. 

[Odd Job]

MP24, 20cm waist boards. 50/45 angles. I think I could bump them down to 45/40... lol

[b.free]

I like narrow boards, my main choice is 15 - 18 cm wide boards. 15cm is great on narrower busy runs, no issue whatsoever to maneuver at any point. Initiating the turn happens instantly. Also amazing to go on pow days with 6 inches of snow to carve between bumps. Although you have to be very experienced rider to ride these boards, since the stance would be 75+ 

MP29

Edited January 27, 2023 by b.free

[yamifumi]

42 minutes ago, b.free said:

I like narrow boards, my main choice is 15 - 18 cm wide boards. 15cm is great on narrower busy runs, no issue whatsoever to maneuver at any point. Initiating the turn happens instantly. Also amazing to go on pow days with 6 inches of snow to carve between bumps. Although you have to be very experienced rider to ride these boards, since the stance would be 75+ 

MP29

This guy will carve anything, I see it every week   And it is a spectacle. If he can ride 15cm board with MP29 then most can. But again, it all comes down to the preference.

@b.freewas the one who convinced me to try narrower board and now I am all into skinny board. My board varies: 14.5, 15.5, 16, 18 but I ride 15.5 and 16 95% of the time. 

If you asked me 2 years ago, 20cm was the minimum I would have gone but now I am not going back more than 18cm.

 

now riding the narrow board exclusively and I love it so … yes it is worth a try! For me, 15-16cm is the sweet spot. I modified my front boots as well on my MS boots: B shell at Mondo 26

 

p.s. If you are ever in CO, you can always try my narrow boards that is not in use  

Edited January 27, 2023 by yamifumi

[west carven]

howdy slabber

Burton Factory Prime 5.7 200s... is this a red one?...

[slabber]

4 hours ago, west carven said:

howdy slabber

Burton Factory Prime 5.7 200s... is this a red one?...

No, it's the blue one on the left...  the 5.7 190s I also have is red. 

 

[Carvin' Marvin]

I like 20-21. I feel like any narrower and my mechanics change a bit. I like my 19cm but I wouldn’t go any narrower. The best way to find your preference is to spend thousands of dollars and years of your precious life to find your preferred wait width down to the millimeter. 

[rst]

I cannot go narrower that 20cm, I just lose feedback from the snow, it becomes too smooth for me.

I have lots of legacy from softboot riding, so it maybe one of inherited things

 

BTW, I'm not riding wider that 20; kind of sweet spot for me

Edited January 27, 2023 by rst
typo

[SunSurfer]

I ride boards with waists between 17cm and 25cm. And happiest around 19 to 21cm. Riding boards with different characteristics is all part of the fun, but it can involve setup adjustments [binding angles and/or biasing binding toes or heels towards the appropriate edge) and of course technique adjustment.

@EastsiiiideThe F2 bindings noted in your profile have the nice feature of being able to freely rotate the discs that attach the binding to the board. I have some F2 Intecs that I rotate the binding discs 90 degrees and use that to achieve toe/heel binding bias (also called Gilmore/Gilmour bias on the ASB Forums) to get my front foot heel close to the edge and my rear toes close to the edge on my 25cm waist RadAir board, and still ride my preferred angles (65F, 60R) with mininmal technique adjustment. The F2s allow fine adjustment laterally of a little over 1cm in either direction from centre. Video below shows the results.

Like @Carvin' Marvinsaid, you can spend thousands searching and discarding till you find the perfect board, or you can make the most of what you already have, or you can gradually gather a quiver and have fun riding them all.

[Neil Gendzwill]

19 hours ago, Eastsiiiide said:

I'm not interested in racing--just an aggressive all-mountain boarder who prefers hard boots.

If you're riding all-mountain, I don't understand why you want a narrow board.  I prefer shallower angles so I have more leverage in the bumps and trees.  A little extra width for float doesn't hurt either.  I'm running 21.5 or 22 cm on my alpine boards.

[Corey]

8 hours ago, Carvin' Marvin said:

The best way to find your preference is to spend thousands of dollars and years of your precious life to find your preferred wait width down to the millimeter. 

This is so true it hurts a little! 

[Eastsiiiide]

20 hours ago, Neil Gendzwill said:

If you're riding all-mountain, I don't understand why you want a narrow board.  I prefer shallower angles so I have more leverage in the bumps and trees.  A little extra width for float doesn't hurt either.  I'm running 21.5 or 22 cm on my alpine boards.

Good question. Basically I want to see just how much fun can be had carving groomers!

So if for example the consensus was that narrowing the board has minimal returns in enjoyment, but can take milliseconds off your slalom time, that would be irrelevant to me, like putting carbon wheels on a mountain bike.   But if it means I can have a substantially new and different experience on a snowboard, then that starts to tip the balance to seeking out a board that really allows me to feel that extreme.  14-15cm is pretty exciting and something I'd definitely like to feel for myself!  In the bigger picture, I'm looking at how snowboarding fits into my spectrum of activities and what kind of boarding I want to do from now on.  The zen of perfectly carving groomers is an area that needs more exploration to find out its value to me, and I want to get to good data on that as efficiently as possible.  And I want to have fun.  Narrow boards sound like fun.

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Eastsiiiide

[snowburn]

I like my boards shaped like a woman. Narrow in the waist and full figured everywhere else.

[Neil Gendzwill]

3 hours ago, Eastsiiiide said:

Good question. Basically I want to see just how much fun can be had carving groomers!

So not all-mountain then. 

[Eastsiiiide]

9 hours ago, SunSurfer said:

@EastsiiiideThe F2 bindings noted in your profile have the nice feature of being able to freely rotate the discs that attach the binding to the board. I have some F2 Intecs that I rotate the binding discs 90 degrees and use that to achieve toe/heel binding bias (also called Gilmore/Gilmour bias on the ASB Forums) to get my front foot heel close to the edge and my rear toes close to the edge on

Whoa. Mind blown a little bit.  Had not thought of doing that.

[st_lupo]

3 hours ago, Eastsiiiide said:

Good question. Basically I want to see just how much fun can be had carving groomers!

So if for example the consensus was that narrowing the board has minimal returns in enjoyment, but can take milliseconds off your slalom time, that would be irrelevant to me, like putting carbon wheels on a mountain bike.   But if it means I can have a substantially new and different experience on a snowboard, then that starts to tip the balance to seeking out a board that really allows me to feel that extreme.  14-15cm is pretty exciting and something I'd definitely like to feel for myself!  In the bigger picture, I'm looking at how snowboarding fits into my life right now and what kind/how much I want to do from now on.  The zen of perfectly carving groomers is an area that needs more exploration to find out its value to me, and I want to get to good data on that as efficiently as possible.  And I want to have fun.  Narrow boards sound like fun.

 

Triggered!   Putting carbon wheels on an MTB isn't about shaving time, it's about never having to true you wheels again and having a lifetime no questions asked replacement guarantee.

But carving groomers:. I'll vote for 19 to 20cm with my MP 29 boots and 65/60 stance.  Even in the meager pow that we get, that works pretty well for me.

[Eastsiiiide]

27 minutes ago, Neil Gendzwill said:

So not all-mountain then. 

Right, yes, sorry if that was misleading. What I'm saying is I've long preferred hardboots for much of my all-mountain and backcountry pursuits out here in the West (I grew up skiing, so it just seemed like yeah, of course hard boots are better), and now I'm trying to learn more about what thrills remain to be found by pushing myself into the more technical side, carving on ideal equipment and ideal runs.  But aside from my use case, what I think is interesting to get a read on from the vast oracle of this forum (thanks Jack M) is how much tweaking this parameter of waist width translates to bigger thrills.  The answer, of course, is 'it depends'.  Nonetheless I'm really interested to read the various takes on this question, thanks everyone, and keep em coming if you please. 

[Eastsiiiide]

On 1/26/2023 at 9:41 PM, yamifumi said:

This guy will carve anything, I see it every week   And it is a spectacle. If he can ride 15cm board with MP29 then most can. But again, it all comes down to the preference.

@b.freewas the one who convinced me to try narrower board and now I am all into skinny board. My board varies: 14.5, 15.5, 16, 18 but I ride 15.5 and 16 95% of the time. 

@b.free and @yamifumi this is super interesting.  Thank you.    I see that @b.free had a virus that was both short and narrow.  Verrry curious about that.  Any board suggestions I might look at to explore my curiosities are strongly invited.  @yamifumi I just might want to take you up on that offer someday, I've been meaning to get out to CO anyway, thanks!  Sadly though I'm on the injured list at the moment, just playing wait and see.  I had entertained a glimmer of coming to MCC this year, but no dice.  

Edited January 28, 2023 by Eastsiiiide

[yamifumi]

I personally have the following length and width:

- Oxess XXR 182 @ 15.5cm

- Virus Interceptor 181 @ 16cm

- Virus Cyborg 181 @ 14.5cm

- Virus Phantom 195 @ 18cm

And @b.freehas Virus Black Death 176 @ 15cm

 

For me, narrow board was eye opening and it is very maneuverable from crowded to open runs by varying the turns so easily. It is rare that I am not enjoying the run. I say a lot less of: "oh man it is crowded run", "the run is not perfectly groomed", "I wish the run were wider", "too many soft spots", etc.

I had a good outcome by trying and sticking to narrow board but again, it is completely personal preference. 

Another positive is that I can mess with people's mind and people are even more confused what the heck I am riding..... "I just lost my other powder ski so i just decided to drill a hole and ride it mono-style" 

[philw]

A lot of EU people ride very narrow, typically Virus, snowboards. It's a specific style of riding which those boards work well - hard linked carves, low to the snow, often with air involved in the transitions. The boards look very reactive and the people using them tend to be absolutely on it.

That said, they don't bring those out when there's 20cm of fresh on the piste, and I've never seen anyone ride powder on something that narrow. I suspect they're perfect for that specific type of turn. 

I'd guess you're optimising one specific parameter with any board which is quite so extreme.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

9 hours ago, snowburn said:

I like my boards shaped like a woman. Narrow in the waist and full figured everywhere else.

Wait…..you mean like a 4m sidecut?!??? GTFO…….

[SunSurfer]

I have a 17cm waist Skwal USA powder Skwal I accidentally won in the Aspen Trenching Convention 2017 raffle. I've not ridden it in powder, just on firm manmade snow at an indoor venue. But the more forward angled stance around 80 degrees with outward can't that I was using also gave full rein to my knees to act as shock absorbers while initiating and holding turns with lateral foot sole pressure. Skwal stance really helps soak up the bumps and carve through crud.

Stances higher than 60 degrees often benefit from outward cant, and the closer you get to 90 degrees more degrees of cant are likely to be needed to restore the natural alignment of the knee joint. I've posted the link to the YouTube video (RiotSuperCarver channel) that explains how this works so many times on ASB. Message me for the link if you can't find it.