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Hardboot Pow Riders- What Rear Cant Disk You Riding?


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I got TD3 SW SI's with a 3 degree cant disk on the front  and a 3 in the rear on a Moss PQ60 with has a lot of backset.  That was working great for me last year, at least before my collision....but  for the life of me this season I can't find  my groove in the pow and the boards fighting me and I'm just barely able to ride it, but not drive it like I had been!.  I have a little more control on the groom but was thinking of putting a 6 cant disk on the rear to get some power/weight back on the nose..............which, of course is counter intuitive considering it's design/backset to ride the tail but I'm at a loss and about ready to make toothpicks out of this board  by running it through one of the state highway  industrial size snow plow shredders we got out here!

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On my deep powder boards ie. 6" plus days. I ride on F2's with UPZ XC12 boots (UPZ have a steeper ramp angle) but my set up is 3 deg. front foot toe lift with one cant shim leaning back base angle 31 deg. Back foot I ride flat. base angle 33 deg. I like back foot forward a couple of degrees. 

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28 minutes ago, Odd Job said:

stuck/hesitation on toeside, right?

 No......mostly the opposite, no control  and resistant to going left/heelside.  I'm actually fighting it (more like the board is fighting me!) both ways..... I turn right then too much speed then wash the tail and side slip to slow down then drop the nose then fight to nose to go left but end up throwing the tail out to side slip left  and slow down...... then drop the nose etc, etc.

I'm actually having (a little) more success on the groomers with my Donek Rev and Coiler Angrry  in getting my groove/riding back to pre collision.....but even those turns are butt ugly compared to last year but the boards are not fighting it happening!    

57 minutes ago, Carvin' Marvin said:

just put your 6 on the back and try it?

Probably would if I had one here!   I pretty sure I have one back east at our summer home....but that's not going to be of any help until I can get my hands on it!

 

 

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I assume the obvious stuff is out, including the board being bent out of shape possibly by the collision.

Good luck trying to solve it. I'm out of ideas other than your kinesthetic senses being whacked by the collision.

 

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1 minute ago, Odd Job said:

your kinesthetic senses being whacked by the collision.

Yeah....there's probably some truth in that!  

Actually ...Sense the collision (it will be a year ago this Weds!) All My Boards Feel Broke To Me!   It's has gotten somewhat better with my short carving boards, but so far getting my Mojo back has been such a sloooow process I'm thinking I will pack it all in and yard sale it all off  if I don't get any better than this by the end of this season!

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Could the epic amount of snow also have anything to do with it? What most people find to be "hero snow" is just too soft for me. Just watered down vague feeling bs.

Early season water injected at Copper is good; I was able to carve down the steeps at East Village on softboots without sharp edges, so..., if I had to carve for several weeks/months in a row on soft snow trying to regain some base level of feeling on my edges, I'd go insane.

Edited by Odd Job
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4 hours ago, barryj said:

I got TD3 SW SI's with a 3 degree cant disk on the front  and a 3 in the rear on a Moss PQ60 with has a lot of backset.  That was working great for me last year... 

Hmm. Well obviously you can play around to find what works, if you can't tell from riding it. I couldn't work it out from the thread. At risk of stating the obvious, it's the combination of boots and bindings which matters for me, so I'd check the boots haven't been adjusted or lost adjustment too. Personally I'd be wary of anything beyond the out-of-the-box standard range of F2s - which is 1 degree to 3 degrees... 6 sounds like a lot to me. 

I've not ridden the Moss, but it's the sort of board I tend to ride. I don't ride those with anything different from ordinary boards, and "tail less" Fish type designs don't affect my angles. So I think "how far back the reference is"... should not be a factor at all.

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On 1/15/2023 at 11:25 PM, barryj said:

for the life of me this season I can't find  my groove in the pow and the boards fighting me and I'm just barely able to ride it, but not drive it like I had been!. 

me too Barry.  dealing with opposite of progression is so depressing.  after 2-3 years i think i am finally made peace with it.  Hope you best of luck to find your mojo.  Need regression anonymous support group 

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Take the bindings off that Moss and devolve to powsurf.

So it's only temporary, use some removable two-sided tape and stick some throwaway MTB tires with the bead cut off over top of the entire area you could put your bindings. If you have some throw away $, buy a brand new Maxxis Minion 3C.

Go to a mellow hill with a foot of snow on it. If you have more, to the point where you can fall down and not care, you can go steeper.

Get on it and slide down the hill standing sideways. Preferably with your feet angled how they'd be if you were doing a squat. If you want to go left and right, bank. The "Norm" vid is good for a visual here. 

You sound like you might be going too far into the weeds and need a hard reset.

 

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On 1/21/2023 at 5:43 AM, Corey said:

Brilliant, Rob! Love the idea of a hard reset. 

Comments like the one I’ve made can be a thread-killer. 
@barryjprobably thinks I’m joking / being a €#nt, when I actually only want to spread joy and love to my wonderful friends here and that I couldn’t be more sincere. 
you should NoBoard. 2D6BC66C-6693-4BA0-9B41-8B9717E01C1A.png.98555aec4129ceb38fcde85e0e749c8c.png

Edited by Rob Stevens
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21 minutes ago, barryj said:

I don't want to learn/start all over with a new discipline. 

Nuff said............

 

Hey Barry. 
I’m sure the last part there is meant to shut this conversation down, but I’m the only one still on here offering advice, so I’m going to keep on. 

I’ll start this post however to address your actual question… if you use a cant in the rear to have some effect on your position which you feel will make you more confident, you may wind up too far forward on that board. As a carver and someone who has been doing it for a very long time, I have realized that the more you want to be able to stand on the front foot, the more board you need in front of your front foot. If you cant in the rear, can you set your stance back further? If not, you might look at a a board that offers you as much nose as possible.

I also offer some bindingless riding as a solution for your apparent loss of confidence. I never jybed with hardboot powder riding (even though I have a fair bit of mileage with it) as I found the setup to be hyper-sensitive to inputs. Unless you have a great deal of time in this game where you don’t crash and have a setback as you have, you might wind up where you are, looking at an uphill battle to come back, or throwing in the towel. 

The problem right now for you is starting again with a platform that requires a fair bit of skill and performance, when ideally you need to dial it back. 
That’s where bindingless comes in. 
 

Ideally, you’d be doing this initially at walking speed, rediscovering finer movements you’ve become unaware of over time. Think of it as an exercise someone would give you to try with the goal of incorporating the increased skills back into your riding. 
 

My background is instruction. Know that I would never suggest something dangerous to you. I gather that you are older and as a default, so not want to fall. I feel the same way… I’m a mess at 55 years old and “cannot fall” myself. That said, if you choose the right day, with very soft snow, a mellow pitch (not even the ski hill… any slope close to home will do) and low speeds, you’ll be very safe. 
 

If I’m rejected again on this subject, I promise I’ll stop this time. 

 

 

Edited by Rob Stevens
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FWIW

Turn initiation in powder just doesnt work as well by loading the nose as it does with groomers so I must remind myself to stay centered (especially with some of the new shorter wider rides.)

Modern shapes with taper, setback and in your case swallowtail should prevent the dreaded rear leg burn and keep the nose afloat. If not you probably should play with the fore aft placement of your bindings before stance. 

With this in mind  you might try a stance with canting such that the rear is canted forward and the front foot back Vitruvian man style.  Exaggerate this to the extreme your equipment allows (bomber 6 degrees Catek who knows)  for a bit to force that centered feeling and play with  finesse rather than rely on mechanical advantage and power which are so helpful on hard-pack.

Once you feel that vibe back down the canting until you loose the centered feeling and there you go.   Catek are awesome for dialing in a new board because they have easier/more degrees of freedom and can be adjusted on the hill without the drama of caring extra cant disks ect.   Dont forget box wine which is critical for setup especially of the rear foot. I like as much mechanical advantage as the width allows without overhang so each board has different riding angles for me.

Phantoms have been perfect for me on one board transforming the feel with super low profile and just the right flex/cant but hell on another board  so there is always that variable as well.
 

vitruvian.jpg

Edited by neanderthal
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