EC Discussion Time~

[barryj]

Hey you EC Aficionado's

In an effort to dial up my EC game this season I'm curious as to everybody else's setup for best EC

I've obviously had my best EC days/runs on my Swoard Dual 168, and Coiler EC SS 174....... but for me I'm not consistent in laying out the carves day to day in that it has to be perfect slope, perfect conditions, perfect pitch, perfect temp, perfect groom, etc.....before it all comes together for me.

I'm running 60/62 angles on my Swoard and Coiler with TD3  SI's 3/6 lift with Deeluxe track 425 Pro's

I like the diversity I can ride with my setup but maybe my setup is holding me back..... but I don't want to run an EC only, one-trick pony but it seems the EC demigods at Swoard say that angles shouldn't be over 55 on front and 5-8 less on the rear with zero canting   and running flat with no front toe or rear heel lift and obviously on a wide board of at least 22W. 

What say you EC Wizards?   Do you agree with the demigods or are you having quality EC days and more diversity with your own setup?

[ibrussell]

Just go with what the day/slope/groom with give you. I run a Coiler nfce &b  67/62  and shed a jacket each year EC turns.  But I'm old enough when the snow not soft to slide on I try to stay 6"-2' off and drag a hand.  

[b0ardski]

if you want to drag your armpits get your toes and heels closer to the edges and add some splay so the front and back legs are more independent.

[b.free]

It’s unnecessary to ride 22w boards to do EC. My best setup is 18w boards with longer edge line, bindings angles would be 65+, but it doesn’t really matter as long as you know a technique. Nevertheless, EC can be easily done even on 15w board.

[nextcarve]

The pure EC doctrine would be to use a Swoard board with Swoard bindings and Swoard UPZ boots

I think it's a matter of taste which equipment you prefer. If you have a board with long enough sidecut radius and apply the EC technique correctly, it works with a wide range of boards. What works less well are boards with too small sidecut radius (e.g. slalom boards or short freecarvers). It should have a sidecut radius of at least 13m, with a flex matched to your weight and sportiness. With narrower boards (> 17cm waist) you also have to adjust the technique; less toe- / heelside, more sideways tipping; less rotation ... and of course you have very steep binding angles and certainly need a heel lift.

My preferred setup is various giant slalom boards (Kessler Alpine 185, F2 Speedster Proto 185, Oxess RG 189 19-23, Oxess RG 185 19, Coiler NSR 189) with long sidecut radii. This results in beautifully elongated EC turns.

As for the diversity, the driving technique must of course be adapted to the conditions of the slope. EC does not mean that you have to ride along the ground all the time, no matter if the slope is bumpy. EC technique can also be used very well with moderate angulation, see here:

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by nextcarve

[Jack M]

Don't try to touch the ground.  When you're carving well, the ground will come up to you.

[skhil]

6 hours ago, b.free said:

EC can be easily done even on 15w board.

I have 12.6w and angles ~86. I don't think the width matter here at all. As for the cut radius, if you want to do EC on blue/green slopes in US you'll need something around 12-14m. You can do EC turn with smaller cut, but it will slow you down too much. That is even more so if you haven't mastered the technique yet.

[barryj]

Good replies fellas!   I'm glad to see I'm not the only mutant that's having fun on a variety of setups.

Any of you running Bomber TD3s?  Wondering if the  3/6 toe/heel lifts I'm running on all my TD3 SW Si's  boards is of any advantage of hindrance for EC ??

[skhil]

I'm obviously using skwal bindings, there is no other way to avoid overhang on this width.

For my setup canting discs help to get natural (anatomically) feet position. You can get something similar by adjusting ankle angles, but it becomes awkward when you get off the board. So, yeah, for my setup angled canting disks are a must.

[b.free]

1 hour ago, skhil said:

I have 12.6w and angles ~86. I don't think the width matter here at all. As for the cut radius, if you want to do EC on blue/green slopes in US you'll need something around 12-14m. You can do EC turn with smaller cut, but it will slow you down too much. That is even more so if you haven't mastered the technique yet.

Well, 15 cm boards are still considered as a snowboards, what's you riding is a skwal and rules of snowboarding don't really apply to skwal riding. I tried a skwal ones, and my snowboarding technique did not work for me on it. Don't mean to offend at any point, but riding skwal is riding sideways, no need to apply any other forces, like rotation or longitudinal work.

Most of up to date boards have variable sidecut and by applying some forces a boarder can make a longer or shorter sidecut. I personally can ride EC on my Virus Black Death which is 15 cm board, just by making my turn longer. Of course mastering the technique is a must. 

32 minutes ago, barryj said:

Good replies fellas!   I'm glad to see I'm not the only mutant that's having fun on a variety of setups.

Any of you running Bomber TD3s?  Wondering if the  3/6 toe/heel lifts I'm running on all my TD3 SW Si's  boards is of any advantage of hindrance for EC ??

I have never tried TD3s, however why not, they should work with EC, don't see any reason not to. As for toe/heel lifts, its all personal preference, use them or not. I ride flat on my rear leg and with toe lift up front. Works fine for me, might not for others.

Edited December 2, 2022 by b.free

[BlueB]

2 minutes ago, b.free said:

rules of snowboarding don't really apply to skwal riding. I tried a skwal ones, and my snowboarding technique did not work for me on it.

Maybe try some more, or try the skis too? Skwal, skis, snowboard, all the fundamentals are the same, just the body orientation is not. Skwal actually relates to EC very well, because the angulation is (mostly) not applied. Rotation is another story, though. 

[BlueB]

To me, the most important component for EC is that the board is not too stiff for the pitch and speed that you want to move at. Too stiff, it would carry on straight  down the fall line, when you're laid down. 

Radius, width, binding angles, meh... EC can happen on anything from freeride board to skwal, 8m, 20m, all doable. 

Canting/lifting is highly individual, ride what feels good to you. 

[skhil]

22 minutes ago, b.free said:

tried a skwal ones, and my snowboarding technique did not work for me on it. Don't mean to offend at any point, but riding skwal is riding sideways, no need to apply any other forces, like rotation or longitudinal work.

BlueB is right, It's not that different as one would think. It takes only a day or two to adjust to it. At least if you have your feet apart like on wider boards. Longitudinal work is still necessary if you want to control your speed on steeper slopes.

[b.free]

13 minutes ago, BlueB said:

Maybe try some more, or try the skis too? Skwal, skis, snowboard, all the fundamentals are the same, just the body orientation is not. Skwal actually relates to EC very well, because the angulation is (mostly) not applied. Rotation is another story, though. 

Well, I came to HB from skiing, was pretty good actually. Still ride it sometimes.

Although what you call fundamentals is basically staying on the edge, so yes its all same at this point. However body orientation is what makes snowboarding technique different, or skiing technique.. or skwal.

[BlueB]

Fundamentals: bring the device onto the edge, keep the COM inside the turn to balance the forces, distribute the pressure along the edge, manage the pressure from the terrain and turn or add your own through the turn... the rest is nit-picking

[Odd Job]

I'm pretty sure if you wanted to, you could EC on anything.

[b.free]

31 minutes ago, Odd Job said:

I'm pretty sure if you wanted to, you could EC on anything.

Can you?!!)))

[Odd Job]

2 minutes ago, b.free said:

Can you?!!)))

No but I’m sure you can.

i can only semi cheat the toeside. Heelside devolves to some mixture of ec and pureboarding.

[nextcarve]

14 hours ago, BlueB said:

Fundamentals: bring the device onto the edge, keep the COM inside the turn to balance the forces, distribute the pressure along the edge, manage the pressure from the terrain and turn or add your own through the turn... the rest is nit-picking

Carving on a snowboarding is not only about the physics of edge(s) and COM. Having two feet fixed "vertical" on one board and pushing a single edge into the snow with your toes and heels requires quite different technique and body movement compared to skiing. That's why some of us need more or less practicing when starting with snowboarding, even if they are good skiers.

Coming back to the topic;
EC is also not any snowboarding style where you get closer to the snow. To me it's a certain technique, where you apply correct body position, rotation and push&pull while carving. I also think you can enjoy this technique more, if your equipment is adequate. A board with small sidecut radius will hinder you and you'll probably have less fun in practicing EC-technique.

[nextcarve]

17 hours ago, barryj said:

Good replies fellas!   I'm glad to see I'm not the only mutant that's having fun on a variety of setups.

Any of you running Bomber TD3s?  Wondering if the  3/6 toe/heel lifts I'm running on all my TD3 SW Si's  boards is of any advantage of hindrance for EC ??

Sorry but I have no experience with Bomber bindings, but I ride my F2 Titanium flat with no canting, heel or toe lift. The theory behind this setup is, that forces caused by canting wedges are hindering the board from bending/flexing (longitudinal), which is equally important for carving as the sidecut. The asymmetrical nature of a heel or toe lift, also leads to different edging angles on your heel or toe side, which in turn has an influence on how much you can edge up your board. 

But it also depends on your board. Narrower boards will need some heel or toe lift because of the different stance (also less effect on edging up the board). Or you may need some canting because of your physiology (knock knees or bowlegs). The most important is to achieve a natural position, where you can move freely and your stance has no negative effect on your musculoskeletal system.

Edited December 2, 2022 by nextcarve

[NateW]

I have a hunch that things like waist width, stance angles, and binding cants are all really just matters of personal preference. For me, the sweet spot is a 19cm waist with 60/55 angles - it just feels like the right alignment for my body no matter what I'm doing on the board. I've experimented with wider and narrower boards, and corresponding angles, and I just didn't feel as "at home" with them.

Jacques and Patrice were fans of wider boards and lower angles, and it clearly works very well for them, but I'm not sure that means that it's the best setup for everyone.

But I also agree with nextcarve's post above about the importance of a long sidecut radius. Laying out turns got much easier when I went up to a 13m radius. At 10m, the turns whip around so fast that I feel like I'm struggling to keep up. 15m also works well, but it requires more speed and thus more space, and IMO 13m works well enough, so 13m is the sweet spot for me. 

[barryj]

33 minutes ago, NateW said:

matters of personal preference.

Yeah my Swoard Dual II with 25.8 w and 10 scr is the best EC ride I've found for with my setups....and I've tried the Swoard EC and the EC Pro.