Questions on finding a playful all mountain setup for hardboots

[Jarcode]

Next season I am planning on sticking to hardboots full time as I have been for the past three years... this time as an instructor. Teaching elementary maneuvers however required me to throw plates onto a freeride stick, which I found very fun, but just isn't going to be a long-term solution since the board itself doesn't perform all that well. It's too soft, far too wide (26.6cm), and rockered.

I sort of wrote off the massive difference between softboot and hardboot boards as their own domains until I rode an unusual Donek Incline with a 23cm waist that I got from a trade with @BlueB. It's wide enough that the board rides nicely along the base still, but narrow enough that I can ride forward angles that I'm comfortable with. The stiffness was perfect for hard carving. The only problem is that it's 180cm... far too large to pivot around which is a bit of a problem since I'm looking to take my hardbooting into the park next season.

So my task this summer is to find something that fits that niche. Problem is, I can't really find any non-alpine snowboard that really fits my requirements. Everything is either far too soft, far too wide, or doesn't have enough insert setback for my style of riding. At the some time, most of the "all mountain" options in the alpine world aren't of interest to me since the focus there still seems very carve oriented. I already have that category covered.

I think my only option is to custom order something... as a 23-24cm waist, ~165cm length board for someone of my size (195lbs, 6'3") doesn't seem to exist. The only exception seems to be the Thirst CC.

Thoughts? Ideas?

[barryj]

Hey JC

Swoard Dual II  --  Its made for soft or hardboots   Its my daily all mtn board and I put in around 100 days per season.   I'm 6'2"  225 and I ride a 168   Yes, there weight range table is for scrawny Euros so don't go totally by that!  Nils and the boys at Swoard wanted me on the 175 but the 168 is just perfect imo!  ...and there around $700US !!!

In fact this is my 2nd  Dual.    I had the original, which was great, but the  Dual II is even better!

I have mine set up with TD3 SW SI's  It loves the groom, loves the chop

https://www.extremecarving.com/swoard/announcements/Swoard_DUAL_en.pdf

 

 

 

 

[dhamann]

Prior 4wd, SG cult and OES all mountain come to mind. Nidecker 

Edited April 30, 2022 by dhamann

[Jarcode]

@barryj That seems like the characteristics I'm looking for, minus the width. At 25.8cm it's not far from my current freeride board and I don't really want to have anything over 24cm when I'm looking for something I can comfortably run ~30-40 degrees on the rear foot with my m28 boots. I ride considerably worse at lower angles.

@dhamann I did not know about the OES all mountain... that is almost exactly what I want!

I'm also leaning towards getting a Coiler built, might actually be the cheapest option for me in Canada unless I get lucky and swipe something used.

[yamifumi]

It sounds like Coiler would be the best option with budget friendly custom build to what you want. 
When you have a particular spec you want in your mind, you end up spending same amount of $ trying to find used equipment. Definitely recommend custom build

[BlueB]

@Jarcode, I have a pile of boards around 23 waist, between 160 and 169, including the OES AM167 in 3 different stiffness (I've designed that thing, after all ). I think the closest to what you want is my Pure Boarding Bastard. You are welcome to try them all in the early season. Or take them to Whistler this May, I just can't go with you... 

All that being said, I still think you'd be the best off with about 25 waist. It would allow you to go about 45° on your front foot, with your boot size. I wouldn't go higher for teaching... 

Edited May 1, 2022 by BlueB

[Jarcode]

@BlueB I would love to try them next season! Hope your wrist is healing well.

If you're willing to part with one, there's a very high chance I would buy one off you too.
 

12 minutes ago, BlueB said:

All that being said, I still think you'd be the best off with about 25 waist. It would allow you to go about 45° on your front foot, with your boot size. I wouldn't go higher for teaching... 

I was aiming for something like 55/35, I already ride at 45/25 with toe and heel underhang on my current freeride board.

I plan to keep the old wide board with the floppy burton plates for absolute beginners anyway, since that's just all skidding, no point in being picky about board performance there. But if things align for me next season, I'll be doing a lot more than just beginner lessons... and I also want a board I can personally enjoy goofing around with.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Bruce built me a custom version of his AMT design that I love. It’s a 22 cm waist but I think he can go to 23 on that design. Tell him what you want, likely you will be happy. 

[BlueB]

29 minutes ago, Neil Gendzwill said:

Bruce built me a custom version of his AMT design that I love. It’s a 22 cm waist but I think he can go to 23 on that design. Tell him what you want, likely you will be happy. 

He had a 19.5 version of that and it's mine now [vampire voice] mwahahahaaa! [/vampire voice] 

[Jarcode]

11 hours ago, BlueB said:

He had a 19.5 version of that and it's mine now [vampire voice] mwahahahaaa! [/vampire voice] 

I'm still not entirely sure how you were riding so comfortably on it considering how soft that board was. It felt terrible to me in comparison to my WCRM.

[Mr.E]

I asked Sean to make me a 169 Incline with a 22mm waist and an 11-13m sidecut. It's the board I wish I had when I was teaching.

If you like your 180, might just ask him to size one for your current needs.

As a bonus, it's not a terribly expensive board to have students run into and rough up.

 

Edit- Ha, it's actually my photo here:  https://www.donek.com/graphic-options/#carbonium

Edited May 1, 2022 by Mr.E

[NateW]

My last two Doneks have been based on the Axxess, but narrower (19cm rather than 21). I'm sure they'd be happy to make one wider, though. And they'll work with you on stiffness - mine are super stiff.

I love the fact that customer builders like Donek exist... no more searching product lines for the specs I want, no more compromises. Just choose, order, and ride.  

[Aracan]

On 5/1/2022 at 2:06 AM, BlueB said:

I think the closest to what you want is my Pure Boarding Bastard.

Of the PB boards, I have only ever ridden my Bastard. But based on what Jörg tells me, the Two might fit the bill even better, as being more oriented towards former softboot riders.

[RideGuy]

I currently have a Donek Incline 164 x 23.5, 9-11 side cut that works really well with hard boots.  I ride it when I'm messing around with the kids.  I teach my younger two who are new to snowboarding and it works just fine.  It's playful enough.  It does well in soft snow and mush.

When I started instructing I rode soft boots.  But I blew out my ancle and never rode soft boots again.  Prior made me a 4x4 that was 164 x 23 for teaching.  It was excellent.  The 4x4 is a touch more playful, but does not carve as well as the Incline.  I don't remember what the sidecut was on the 4x4 but it was good for demos because it could carve at such low speed.

The one thing I don't like about the Incline is that it's not stable at high speeds.  I asked Bruce to make me a replacement.  It's what Bruce calls a Contra All Terrain.  168 x 23.5 with 10m side cut.  144 effective edge (17 nose, 7 tail).  It's ready, but I haven't picked it up yet.

[BlueB]

5 hours ago, Aracan said:

Of the PB boards, I have only ever ridden my Bastard. But based on what Jörg tells me, the Two might fit the bill even better, as being more oriented towards former softboot riders.

I agree. My recommendation was just out of the 23 wide boards that i have and can let him try. 

[philw]

On 4/30/2022 at 8:17 PM, Jarcode said:

... most of the "all mountain" options in the alpine world aren't of interest to me since the focus there still seems very carve oriented. 
...
Thoughts? Ideas?

In the past I always found "soft boot" boards too wide to be enjoyable for my 35/45 stance on hardpack. At the same time "hard boot" boards seem aimed at very narrow usage. I ride hard boots, but I don't want a board dedicated to one specific type of snowboarding. My boots don't limit me at all, my board shouldn't either.

This season, everything changed. Someone gave me a Burton Hometown Hero as a replacement for the Dump Truck/ Skeleton key boards I'd been riding in heli powder. In powder you can tell the boards apart, but only just - they ride very similarly.

Then Covid took me to a resort. My mates expected me to stand in line for 2 hours in the dark freezing BC winter in order to get the first chair on a powder day. I figured I may as well take the powder board. We got our fresh tracks, but within minutes the whole mountain was tracked out, which left me with a powder board on hardpack. 

The Hero caught me completely by surprise: it just ripped. As the day wore on, my confidence in the board built and built. The harder I pushed it, the more it took. The board's shape is similar to the Dump Truck, albeit a bit smaller in this case (148 vs 156 nominal), but they're night and day to ride on hardpack. My boots reach the edges is I think partly why, but the construction is also responsive in a way most soft boot boards aren't. Or perhaps the flex just perfectly matches my weight/ aggression level.

It's so good I didn't even take my Kessler SL on my next major trip.

=> I'd at least take a look at modern "soft boot" boards, with this type of design.

[Jarcode]

14 hours ago, RideGuy said:

I currently have a Donek Incline 164 x 23.5, 9-11 side cut that works really well with hard boots.  I ride it when I'm messing around with the kids.  I teach my younger two who are new to snowboarding and it works just fine.  It's playful enough.  It does well in soft snow and mush.

When I started instructing I rode soft boots.  But I blew out my ancle and never rode soft boots again.  Prior made me a 4x4 that was 164 x 23 for teaching.  It was excellent.  The 4x4 is a touch more playful, but does not carve as well as the Incline.  I don't remember what the sidecut was on the 4x4 but it was good for demos because it could carve at such low speed.

The one thing I don't like about the Incline is that it's not stable at high speeds.  I asked Bruce to make me a replacement.  It's what Bruce calls a Contra All Terrain.  168 x 23.5 with 10m side cut.  144 effective edge (17 nose, 7 tail).  It's ready, but I haven't picked it up yet.

Your Incline sounds like a shorter version of mine. I would be interested in what you think of the "all terrain" Contra when you get a chance to try it.

[RideGuy]

12 hours ago, Jarcode said:

Your Incline sounds like a shorter version of mine. I would be interested in what you think of the "all terrain" Contra when you get a chance to try it.

I travel to Vancouver and Calgary each once a quarter.  I was hoping to take this board out for my second quarter visits but I won't be going until May 30 and it looks like everything is closed by then. I'm happy to give feedback, but it looks like it won't be until next winter.

[*Ace*]

Ace Skwal 165 Green Mountain Proto!

[Jarcode]

Well, this has been resolved thanks to @BlueB selling me his PB Bastard. The best board by far of the three he lent me to try, and is pretty much exactly what I wanted. Also the worst topsheet graphic, by far...

[Corey]

6 hours ago, Jarcode said:

Also the worst topsheet graphic, by far...

Vinyl solves all.  https://www.amazon.ca/VViViD-Black-Gloss-Release-Technology/dp/B08GRJ95GN