Burton Step On Full Season Review...

[RoroSnow]

As explained in another step ons topic, I did move from traditional stiff strap bindings (Franken-Catek FR2 Pro) to Burton Step-Ons only because of bad low back issues, in order to avoid bending over to much, not sitting down to tighten (very) strongly the straps, etc, etc....

I've got the '20-'21 version of Step-Ons without the 2022 toe cleats Burton's modification.

Mods done on the Step On/Ion boots combo as seen on the two pictures :

1  Longer highback leaning adjustment screws...Burton's ones were too short for my taste.

2  Steel braces to tighten the heel cleat/highback combo to the heel cup...Out of the box, during frontsides there is some

     play between the two parts allowing too much delay for quick and responsive edge change. I started with plastic braces

     but they were breaking too easily under stress and cold temperatures. Problem solved with steel ones !

6  Pads under the Gas Pedal in order to reduce the little play and noise between the two toe cleats and the binding.

    At the time it also allows a slightly quicker edge change but need to be refined to "look better and neater"...

3  Home made booster strap, a lot cheaper, yet effective....! stiffer upper boot area allowing at the same time tightening

    better boot's laces.

4  Burton RAF plastic tongue riveted to the boot tongue for added support and stiffness.

5  Small piece of paracord added to ease the laces loosening when opening the boots.

 

Very happy with the mods just need to refine the gas pedal one as the plastic braces tend to break easily. 

Other point I will also consider is the Boa ankle strap......even very tight, I can still feel a tad of heel lift into the boot...and I've always been doubtful about boa solidity over time....Will keep you up to date if anymore mod is done in the future...

Instructing the whole season with the Step Ons, I've finally been pretty happy so far....and my low back too !

Not pictured here but I also moded the release lever with a key ring that I open with a retractable gopro selfie stick. It may seem a lot of work, but is as quick as opening normal bindings as you get used to it. Easy and quick in/out is a breeze when working and no more wet butt sitting down. No problem with snow/ice building up in powder.

So, happy with them teaching and carving even if I think that for good and effective carving those kind of mods should be done....but it may depend on everyone's taste.

 

And two shots of the modified Step Ons in action, working pretty good....

 

[Spiny Norman]

How many days on them? Any durability issues with the boots or bindings?

 

Thanks

[RoroSnow]

@Spiny Norman  Around 120 days  teaching and self practicing on them, so already a good idea about it.

Absolutely no issues with the boots except mods mentioned above...We'll see next year with one season more how they behave....

Something I will do is protecting the upper toe area of the Ion boots with a layer of Sikaflex on the seam to avoid some unstitching due to holding student's board with the foot causing some scraping with the edge.

It's really a small detail to be honest.....

As for the bindings, no issues so far, aside the mods I did on them for personal taste....

One of the weak point I could notice is some lack of lateral support (more noticeable on the front foot) as soon as you increase binding angle. (I teach +30/+15  and freecarve +33/+24). During the off season, I'll think of a way to give more lateral stiffness to the binding/boot combo....

Something else to consider is the lack of stance adjustability due to the shape of the binding center disc....you'll have more fine adjustability if your board has got 4x2 inserts pack instead of 4x4...

[zyzgerry]

On 4/9/2022 at 4:07 AM, RoroSnow said:

3  Home made booster strap, a lot cheaper, yet effective....! stiffer upper boot area allowing at the same time tightening

Maybe a silly question - should I use the booster strap to wrap around only boots, or should I strap it around behind the binding? The image seems to strap the boots only, but I don't fully understand its functionality - isn't the boots already tightened up?

On 4/9/2022 at 4:07 AM, RoroSnow said:

2  Steel braces to tighten the heel cleat/highback combo to the heel cup

I also noticed the movement of the bindings when I try to bend my knees, tried to tighten the screws but that didn't help at all. Where to get these steel braces? Are they custom-made?

[John Gilmour]

I’m a huge booster strap proponent on soft boots and hard boots.  Do it only around the boots. 
 

the booster strap helps to give more support higher up and keep your shin in proper tongue contact to prevent slopping around during edge transitions and reduce shin bang.

 

I use heavy duty Velcro to keep the booster strap from wandering up.

Edited March 3, 2023 by John Gilmour

[zyzgerry]

5 minutes ago, John Gilmour said:

I’m a huge booster strap proponent on soft boots and hard boots.  Do it only around the boots. 
 

the booster strap helps to give more support higher up and keep your shin in proper tongue contact to prevent slopping around during edge transitions and reduce shin bang.

 

I use heavy duty Velcro to keep the booster strap from wandering up.

Thanks I will give it a try this weekend! Do you usually apply straps on both front and back feet? Since we bend back knees more, does strapping back foot limit it’s ability to bend?

[John Gilmour]

I have always used them in both feet. I tend to cinch  them down fairly tight. 
 

I don’t super crank on my inner liners because if you do that you’re going to deform the inner liner and you’re only going to point contact along several parts of the inner liner so I make those inner liners pretty snug.

Then I tighten the outer boot with the Boa really tight . doing it this way, and not over tightening the inner liner helps keep circulation in my feet, and I get a better fit throughout and better resistance to internal rotation of my foot because I am using the outer boot to really crush on the inner liner, distributing the pressure really evenly, then of course you do your straps and then you have to typically titan just a little bit the outer boot liner.

 

, then of course you do your straps and then you have to typically tighten just a little bit, the outer boot liner

 

After a run or two I may tighten up the inner liner just a smidge but again not over tighten - your boots will last longer this way too. 
 

the booster strap I also crank in prettty hard to help the outer boot where it doesn’t have the help of the straps of the binding .

 

in a sense you are emulating a 3 or 4 buckle hardboot . Otherwise soft boots can feel like hardboots that have the top buckle too loose.

 

the booster strap essentially brcomez your “ top buckle” . . Most hardboot riders like their rear boot very secure . Riding with only the front booster strap would do the opposite , so try to use both . 

 

I hope that helps . 
 

BTW  IMHO I really don’t like soft boot carving nearly as much without booster straps . 

 

[zyzgerry]

50 minutes ago, John Gilmour said:

I have always used them in both feet. I tend to cinch  them down fairly tight. 
 

I don’t super crank on my inner liners because if you do that you’re going to deform the inner liner and you’re only going to point contact along several parts of the inner liner so I make those inner liners pretty snug.

Thank you for the suggestions! Will try it out!

[RoroSnow]

@zyzgerry What @John Gilmour said ! 

About the braces, not homemade at all, but easy find them in your nearest hardware shop...

From the pictures I just finally did place them a little bit differently to avoid the tightening screw to drag in the snow when high on edge on heelside...

[roch]

what do you call the strap used for the homemade booster strap

[RoroSnow]

I'm not really sure as English is not my first language but maybe "quick release straps" or anything close to that.....also in hardware shops or car accessories shops....

[Neil Gendzwill]

On 3/3/2023 at 9:24 PM, roch said:

what do you call the strap used for the homemade booster strap

Search for “tie down strap”. You can find them at any good hardware store. Home Depot has a variety. They come with either the friction fit buckle shown in the photo or a ratchet version which would be overkill. 

[Spiny Norman]

These guys seemed to a lot of good stuff.

 

https://m2inc.biz/product-category/all-products/ratcheting-padded-click-straps/

[roch]

Thanks for all the info 

[John Gilmour]

I hope this helps- it’s not a criticism. IMHO I find that the straps that come stock on most of the hard boots and soft boots that secure the tongue to your shin do an ok job. 
 

if the job is just to close the inner liner. Exterior steaks try to do the job but tend to not really help. Essentially when you drive fore and aft in toeside to heelside turns and vice versa , the front and rear of the lower leg can lose contact with the liner .

This slop imho significantly lessens response time to transmitting force through your boots through the bindings to the board.  On less than ideal surfaces … undulating chatter during a turn  can mean your leg in not er I rely pressuring the boot at all times.

Actual brand of Booster straps  have some tough elastic that ensures constant contact . A strap without stretch can not ensure that . So your strap dies not perform like a booster strap because it has no true range of elasticity. Let me see if I can find an actual booster strap video so it can be seen more closely.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pow4ever]

another one specifically for ski boot - double strap - one for inner liner and one for shell
https://patriotfootbeds.com/products/trustraps-2-0

 

[rjnakata]

Increasing the highback forward lean really helped me.  Thanks @RoroSnow 

I used 25 & 30mm set allen set screws.

You can see the black original screw with flat sides (not sure why).

[Neil Gendzwill]

What size are those screws?

[rjnakata]

13 minutes ago, Neil Gendzwill said:

What size are those screws?

M5

[Spiny Norman]

Its been nearly a year since the last post and we are heading into sale season.

 

Any updates or comments on the Step-on system?

 

Anybody abandon them? Anyone fall in love? Anymore modifications?

[rjnakata]

1 hour ago, Spiny Norman said:

Its been nearly a year since the last post and we are heading into sale season.Any updates or comments on the Step-on system?Anybody abandon them? Anyone fall in love? Anymore modifications?

I personally like them a lot (photon/genesis).  Truth, in the 90's I went to hardboots to rid myself of strapping in. Now with these I can ride more mixed conditions/powder with soft boots and no infernal strapping in.  HB's are great, but not in every condition.  in fact I'm riding more soft than I ever have in 30 years. 

Downside is that it can be difficult to step-in in powder. 

The only other option I would consider is the Nidecker Supermatic - no dedicated boots.  However I like the greater forward lean adjustability of the S/O's.

[svr2]

4 hours ago, Spiny Norman said:

Its been nearly a year since the last post and we are heading into sale season.

 

Any updates or comments on the Step-on system?

 

Anybody abandon them? Anyone fall in love? Anymore modifications?

So I have a love/hate relationship with my StepOns…I have had and used all variations of the bindings, Nitro TLS Profile boots, Photon Boots and Ion Boots and am currently on Ions with StepOn X and StepOn Splitboard bindings.

I sent the following feedback to Burton:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I have some feedback on the heel cleat movement issues since I have been using the StepOn X and StepOn splitboard bindings with Spark R&D canted solid board pucks.

 

Part of my observations for the Heel movement is that heavier and more aggressive riders tend to compress the heel foam significantly on heel side turns which exaggerates the movement even more when they transition from heel to toe edge.

 

With the StepOn Splitboard binding, the foam is thin and supported via the aluminum Spark baseplate and has limited space to compress. This makes the heel movement significantly less noticeable on the splitboard version even when using them on a solid board with the Spark pucks.

 

I have also had and ridden the Flux DS StepOn bindings and the heel movement is less noticeable on them due to the harder material on top of the foam in the heel and the entirety of the footbed on the Flux re-flex baseplate.

 

So in short my recommendation is that the heel cleat movement solution not only needs to be a tighter tolerance/new designed heel cleat but also a much harder [possibly two layer (hard rubber lower layer underneath the foam)] heel footbed/baseplate combo between the Flux StepOn and the StepOn Splitboard binding.”

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I also purchased the PowerRide Wing Hard and Mediums and put them in my StepOn Ions and that has helped a lot. Additionally, I added a heel wedge in my Ions (they have a flat sole like a skate shoe where the Driver X is more like a hiking boot with the heel slightly higher than the toes) to make them feel more like my Driver X’s.

I also added a quick release similar to a Intec release to make grabbing the release lever much easier.

All of that said, I have spent more time this season on my regular Driver X/Union Atlas Pro setup than on my StepOn setup and am on the fence about selling my StepOn setup again.  For reference, this is now my third attempt with StepOns since they were released and I have over 200 days on them across all the different boots and bindings and still just cannot quite get it to be what I want it to be for free riding and free carving.

It is close on many things but the heel cleat movement issue is just too much for me (imagine a quarter inch + of play in an Intec Assembly on your hard boots and you would feel the issues I am still having with my rear foot…I have tried all three heel cleats that Burton has as well and it did not completely solve the issue. My current solution has been to add some foam to the heel to help close the gap, but it wears out after about 10 days of riding and needs to be replaced after being compressed so much.

So there you have it from my perspective…it is a very cool system and super convenient, but the only thing that is faster for me with them is being able to step in on the go right off of the chair lift…getting out is no faster than my strap bindings and the performance for me with all of my 179+cm boards is still not quite enough to make me sell my strap binding setup.

Edited March 1 by svr2

[rjnakata]

2 hours ago, svr2 said:

I have some feedback on the heel cleat movement issues...

Thanks for that...  When you say heel cleat movement issues do you mean you feel they go up and down? 

I do see the highbacks moving up/down 1/4 to 3/8" up down on a toeside.  I believe @RoroSnow used pipe clamps to keep them in place (eliminating the ability to fold the highback down after use).

May I also ask if you feel the Powerride wings make a difference, and in what way?  

[svr2]

18 minutes ago, rjnakata said:

Thanks for that...  When you say heel cleat movement issues do you mean you feel they go up and down? 

I do see the highbacks moving up/down 1/4 to 3/8" up down on a toeside.  I believe @RoroSnow used pipe clamps to keep them in place (eliminating the ability to fold the highback down after use).

May I also ask if you feel the Powerride wings make a difference, and in what way?  

The movement I have is at the heel cleat locking mechanism (see pic)

the movement that rorosnow eliminated with the hose clamps is not a problem for me as that movement feels more natural like a strap binding.

The Powerride Wing version adds lateral stability to the boot for me. Since there is no strap for the boot to press on, the boot takes all of the forces from riding and they turn very soft quickly. The Powerride Wing also adds a progressive flex movement that adds overall stability to the boot.

Hope that answers your questions.

[RoroSnow]

@svr2 I did the same under the heel foam pad of the binding due to some play between the boot hook and the binding cleat....better now, less play....I would say, none.

It's true that with the time, the binding foam pad tends to crash a little bit allowing some boot up and down movement from heel to toes. maybe 1 or 2 mm.

That foam pad is probably for some confort zone or some kind of dampening but I think a full solid base with urethane pad under it would be a better solution....