RCrobar Posted March 30, 2022 Report Share Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) The ‘Infinite Loop’ can really help both technique and endurance, thought others might find it interesting. Cheers Rob Edited March 31, 2022 by RCrobar 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted March 30, 2022 Report Share Posted March 30, 2022 While I'm not a "rotator" I can easily imagine how the drill can strengthen legs and core while working on core rotation range of movement. Have to say it looks like something dreamed up while in a Covid lockdown and trying not to go crazy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted March 30, 2022 Report Share Posted March 30, 2022 I like how wonderfully loose are his trucks! Turns even tighter than my slalom board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted March 30, 2022 Report Share Posted March 30, 2022 I do rotate, but I'd have to learn to skate first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliechocolate Posted March 30, 2022 Report Share Posted March 30, 2022 Curious, does CASI endorse rotation? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nextcarve Posted March 30, 2022 Report Share Posted March 30, 2022 9 hours ago, charliechocolate said: Curious, does CASI endorse rotation? Yes.CASI Reference Guide (Page 47) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slopestar Posted March 30, 2022 Report Share Posted March 30, 2022 56 minutes ago, nextcarve said: Yes.CASI Reference Guide (Page 47) PSIA-AASI Does not. My wife got roasted by a bunch of female instructors on some all girls FB site for preferring a directional stance. All of those instructors are teaching power skidding today.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slopestar Posted March 30, 2022 Report Share Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, BlueB said: I like how wonderfully loose are his trucks! Turns even tighter than my slalom board. Pivot Truck/s Edited March 30, 2022 by slopestar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted March 30, 2022 Report Share Posted March 30, 2022 13 hours ago, charliechocolate said: Curious, does CASI endorse rotation? Yes, but not in the way shown in the video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noschoolrider Posted March 31, 2022 Report Share Posted March 31, 2022 On 3/30/2022 at 11:17 AM, slopestar said: PSIA-AASI Does not. My wife got roasted by a bunch of female instructors on some all girls FB site for preferring a directional stance. All of those instructors are teaching power skidding today.... PSIA-AASI does endorse rotation. In AASI, rotational movements are components of Pivot (same as CASI). A directional stance is not related to Pivot/Rotation. You can teach/demonstrate carving and pivot/rotation in a directional stance and a duck stance (watch Ryan Knapton). I would not waste my time trying to explain the benefits of a directional stance to people who are close minded. However, on page 42 of the AASI Snowboard Technical Manual (under Stance) it says, "Positive front and positive rear: This style is preferred by riders who tend to ride forward most of the time, such as people who enjoy carving or racing snowboard cross (e.g., +18 degrees front and +6 degrees on the rear foot." Also, last time I checked Terje Haakonsen still rides a directional stance (Front +24 / Back +9) and so does Jeremy Jones. Jeremy’s High Performance Freeride Stance: Front +27 / Back 0 to +6 Jeremy’s Surf Series Stance: Front +27 to +30 / Back +6 to +12 https://www.jonessnowboards.com/content/313-how-to-set-up-your-snowboard-stance-like-the-jones-team-and-ambassador Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noschoolrider Posted March 31, 2022 Report Share Posted March 31, 2022 On 3/29/2022 at 7:39 PM, RCrobar said: There are many alpine riders here who subscribe to the rotation technique, who may not know about this drill; the ‘Infinite Loop’ can really help both technique and endurance. That is a good workout and the skater is very skilled. However, the amount of rotation shown in the video is necessary because the skater is on a flat surface (the skater needs to move forward and turn). If the cones were on a slope steep enough for the skater to use gravity to move forward (at the same speed as in the video) then that much rotation would be unnecessary and inefficient. If you are trying to do pure carved turns on a snowboard then you should not be trying to use rotation/pivot as your turning mechanism – a pure carver should be more focused on tilt/edge and pressure instead of rotation. Also, just because you see a rider moving in and out of countered positions (where the upper body is not in alignment with the lower body) it does not mean they are using counter rotation. Counter rotation is when the upper and the lower body move in opposition to each other. I mentioned this because a lot of people claim that racers are using counter rotation when they are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCrobar Posted March 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) Hi Noschoolrider Thank you for your well laid out, thoughtful and respectful posts; I really appreciate it. You strike me as a rider I would enjoy spending a day on the hill with, followed by a long and interesting boarding conversation. I think we are a similar vintage age wise. I agree with many of the points you have laid out, but strongly disagree with a few others. That said, I have no interest in a long and drawn out Bomber thread on technique. My ‘avert your eyes’ comment in the original post was my way of trying to decline any big debates. As with most, if not all, summertime drills they are only an approximation of actually riding on snow; for me this is understood and implied. I have been doing this drill for a few years now and have found it has caused me to challenge some of my own long held technique views. I would suggest learning the drill, experiment with many different types of turns (*Edit* AND rotation sizes) and see if you too find some of your long held views are challenged … maybe yes, maybe no? With the Infinite Loop drill, everything happens so fast and in such a tight and small space it can be difficult to separate the movements. I would like to point out that when boarding on snow the rotation: happens only during the edge to edge board transition, the turn starts at the moment the rotation ends, the rotation can be small, medium or large in size, the force of the rotation can be soft, medium or very forceful and that the main efficiencies of a rotation during the transition is to aid in the variation of turn size and shape (driving the board) and to all but eliminate counter-rotations particularly in off piste’ and rougher conditions. Thank you again, I am now over and out:) Cheers Rob Edited April 1, 2022 by RCrobar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noschoolrider Posted March 31, 2022 Report Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) On 3/31/2022 at 1:30 PM, RCrobar said: I would suggest learning the drill, experiment with many different types of turns and see if you too find some of your long held views are challenged … maybe yes, maybe no? I know that drill, I know how to teach and use drills and I have years of experience experimenting with many different types of turns. My comments on pure carving and rotation are based upon years of professional experience which you can read about at https://donrichter.com FYI, I teach pivot/rotation and coach racers on how, when and where to use drift turns (when they are beneficial). I posted about this in another thread a couple years ago and I was told, "drift turns are not a debatable alternative to carved turns in racing". On 3/31/2022 at 1:30 PM, RCrobar said: I agree with many of the points you have laid out, but strongly disagree with a few others. That said, I have no interest in a long and drawn out Bomber thread on technique. My ‘avert your eyes’ comment in the original post was my way of trying to decline any big debates. I don’t agree with posting a topic on a public forum and then claiming that people with different views/information should not make comments. Isn’t that like censorship or saying my opinion is the only one that should be allowed? Shouldn’t this forum be about sharing information, which includes different viewpoints and different ways to do things? Or, would you prefer that some threads only allow posts that agree with the originator's comments (groupthink)? Edited April 2, 2022 by noschoolrider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCrobar Posted March 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2022 Hi Noschool I have edited the original post to try make it more open to any and all thoughts as none of this was my intention, the opposite if truth be told. I just am not interested in a heated debate or offending anyone. Cheers Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted April 1, 2022 Report Share Posted April 1, 2022 I think this looks like a fantastic drill and exercise. Thanks for posting, Rob. Experts should have multiple different techniques and even opposing techniques in their bag of tricks. I didn't detect any "this is the way" dogma in the original post. Glad we have so many different sources of info here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Job Posted April 3, 2022 Report Share Posted April 3, 2022 I would like to add I would probably eat shit in the most insane way and would be wearing a helmet here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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