Ben Patrick’s Knees over Toes for knee discomfort?

[1xsculler]

N e of you tried Ben Patrick’s (the knees over toes guy) exercises to mitigate knee discomfort? 
Joe Rogan’s interview of him is interesting. 

[Technick]

I did a little bit of this one at the beginning of the season. It did losen my knee a fair bit, will try it again!

 

[barryj]

Yeah...I'm a fan.  Added these split squats and slant board Jefferson curls to my 3x stretching routine....it helps! 

[Corey]

I'm always leery when someone claims to have found a secret that fixes all problems. He's certainly enthusiastic! 

Unrelated: I've never seen any proof that Joe Rogan actually exists. 

[barryj]

1 minute ago, Corey said:

Joe Rogan actually exists

Ha!  He exists in a realm of his own...mind!  Not a fan.

[daveo]

I have severed my left ACL twice resulting in 2 x reconstruction. I now have grade 3 cartilage degradation issues in both knees due to my previous life as a track sprinter. I'm now at a point where I'm again squatting 100kg, power clean 90kg, hiked up and down 1500m vert in a day a couple of times. The leg and core strength definitely helps and the power cleans give excellent amount of impact absorption capability in a controlled environment, which transfers over into everyday life where you may encounter a large impact.

The thing that helped me most was changing my walking (moving) biomechanics. I wear minimal style shoes with zero drop from heel to toe exclusively now. Big toe box in all my shoes. Toe socks only. Have spent a lot of time strengthening my feet. Now I absorb the impact with my feet as possible to minimise the transfer into my knees.

I also wear SBD knee sleeves in the gym and Rehband 7051 while snowboarding. They help.

That's my experience, it may or may not be relevant to you.

Oh I just noticed I have the exact same shoes as the praying lunge dude in the thumbnail of that video is wearing. The blue ones.

Edited March 7, 2022 by daveo

[1xsculler]

On 2/23/2022 at 8:35 PM, barryj said:

Ha!  He exists in a realm of his own...mind!  Not a fan.

I’m not a fan either but I do enjoy selected interviews, i.e. all of Dr Rhonda Patrick’s 10 interviews, Ben Patrick, Elon Musk and a very few others. 
If Joe would eliminate the constant barrage of unnessarary F-bombs I might be able to appreciate him more. 

[pow4ever]

I start notice effect of aging.  Can no longer "abuse" my body the way i used to without consequences.
sustainable strength training/awareness where the limit is...  it suck but sometime we have to take a few steps back before move forward again.

before weight lifting/running is more about "max number", PB(personal best).

Now that i focus more on Stretching, technique.  I am cautiously optimistic that maybe i can have my cake and eat it too. 

Thanks to Daveo i started on minimalist shoes (xero prio, Altra).  It didn't help initially because I still have that "Foolish consistency" - i need to hit certain milage a week.  I didn't let those atrophy musle/foot build back up slowly.  so i squeezed the ballon; knee problem pop up as back problem.

cause/effect: weak knee -> tight hamstring -> pulling on the back/back pain.

Now that awareness is finally there; combined with the right foot wear, right running technique (faster turn over and engage more glute instead of hamstring), proper strength training.  i am finally feel "healthy" again.  I am still far from my "peak conditioning" but seems to be back on track.

i also dabble in the knee over toe program.  Every bit help but "the whole is greater than the sum the parts".  wellness/health Is not one thing but doing lots of things right. 

[pow4ever]

2 minutes ago, 1xsculler said:

I’m not a fan either but I do enjoy selected interviews, i.e. all of Dr Rhonda Patrick’s 10 interviews, Ben Patrick, Elon Musk and a very few others. 
If Joe would eliminate the constant barrage of unnessarary F-bombs I might be able to appreciate him more. 

if you like long form podcast/interview give this a try

https://lexfridman.com/podcast/

topics ranges deep and wide.  it's a breath of fresh air in the click bait world we live in today.
everyone sounded like a crazy person when things taken out of context and present it in a sound bite fashion.

[Allee]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:51 AM, daveo said:

II also wear SBD knee sleeves in the gym and Rehband 7051 while snowboarding. They help.

There's a lot to be said for keeping your knees warm. I never lift without sleeves, and I've been (touch wood) relatively knee pain free so far. I wore my sleeves riding last season, and they definitely made a difference to crawling out of the car after the 90 minute drive home.

[1xsculler]

58 minutes ago, Allee said:

There's a lot to be said for keeping your knees warm. I never lift without sleeves, and I've been (touch wood) relatively knee pain free so far. I wore my sleeves riding last season, and they definitely made a difference to crawling out of the car after the 90 minute drive home.

Very good point that really rings with me as 50 some years ago my right knee got really cold when wearing only shell pants on a very cold day. On one of my chair rides it was almost as if that knee cap got frost bitten (of course it didn’t). That knee bothers me occasionally to this day. 
I like the idea of knee sleeves and will start wearing them for support and warmth. 

[daveo]

I love the Rehband 7051 for warmth and some support. I'm thankful I have them in times where I kneel on the snow for whatever reason, also.

HOT TIP: wear them over your tights.

[Corey]

3 hours ago, daveo said:

I love the Rehband 7051 for warmth and some support. I'm thankful I have them in times where I kneel on the snow for whatever reason, also.

HOT TIP: wear them over your tights.

I tried this at Dave's suggestion. I won't be going back. Make sure your base layer is tight with no folds or you'll have an unpleasant time peeling them off. 

I wouldn't buy them just for this, but if you already have them, they're awesome! 

I previously used some very light volleyball knee pads. Decent, and helped a bit if you found an ice chunk in a deep toeside. 

[SunSurfer]

I have my MTB knee pads, POC Air VPD. Warm and flexible, but don't have the wrap around 7mm neoprene the Rehbands have. Superb impact protection instead.

[pow4ever]

i chuckled 

[daveo]

On 3/11/2022 at 1:15 PM, SunSurfer said:

I have my MTB knee pads, POC Air VPD. Warm and flexible, but don't have the wrap around 7mm neoprene the Rehbands have. Superb impact protection instead.

What do you think of the airs, Alan? Comfort, staying put ability, general mobility while wearing them? 

I've been oogling those for years to put over the top of my sleeves for that "just in case" moment and since my knees are a bit mmm less than in ideal condition one might say.

I saw the vpd air leg with some minimal knee protection. Might check those out- should offer more freedom of movement than pads for my use case.

I have a set of g form pads I put over the top a few times but they ended feeling too restrictive so ditched that idea.

[SunSurfer]

@daveoT 

I happily wear my VPD knee pads uphill and downhill when riding my bike. Restriction of movement is minimal. The knee pads stay in place without needing any adjustment over 2+hr rides.

My Air VPD elbow pads are a different story altogether and need some trickery with Lycra arm warmers to stay in place.

There is a small gap between my UPZ boot tops and the VPD pads so I wouldn't use them for gate racing protection on the snowboard, proper shin guards would be a better option.

Edited March 13, 2022 by SunSurfer

[daveo]

@SunSurferthanks for that, going to grab a pair of vpd air knees for the next trip. It is difficult to get accounts of first hand experiences- appreciate it.

I'm using a poc upper body armour which has incorporated spine, shoulder and elbow protection. Chest, too, but I remove that when riding. It stays in place really well and doubles up as warmth retention.

[st_lupo]

On 3/13/2022 at 6:47 PM, SunSurfer said:

@daveoT 

I happily wear my VPD knee pads uphill and downhill when riding my bike. Restriction of movement is minimal. The knee pads stay in place without needing any adjustment over 2+hr rides.

My Air VPD elbow pads are a different story altogether and need some trickery with Lycra arm warmers to stay in place.

There is a small gap between my UPZ boot tops and the VPD pads so I wouldn't use them for gate racing protection on the snowboard, proper shin guards would be a better option.

In my experience the RaceFace Indy elbow pads are awesome at staying in place and are more than enough protection for trail and park riding.  They stay in place really well over multi-hour rides and are slim enough that I wear them under a wool shirt when snowboarding.