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Powder board perfection


neanderthal

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I picked up a Rossignol Sushi last season as a dedicated powder board. It is by far a good deal shorter than anything else I ride, but it's purpose built, it was inexpensive, and the ride reports were good. I only had one day of powder on it, about 12" on top of the usual resort mix, but it floated great and was super surfy feeling in the soft snow. Most powder opportunities in the Tahoe resorts lie in the trees after the initial couple of runs get tracked up, so I figured the shorter 145 would be more comfortable there than some of the bigger boards I've ridden.  On the groomers, it has enough camber and side cut to be respectable, and reasonably fun to ride. As you'd imagine, the big spoon nose chatters some at speed, but for getting around the resort hunting down the next little stash, it felt more than adequate. I only have a few hours on it, but so far, so good.

Edited by andygere
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On 12/25/2021 at 7:17 PM, neanderthal said:

ultimate powder board and setup

Another season and I'm still sticking to my guns..... any Moss snowstick!

http://www.mosssnowstick.com/22-23

I've been in knee to waist deep sierra fluff on my PQ60 and Even in hardboots and TD3 SW SI's it just Goes!    

But you can pop out on the groomers and it will lay down the carves....On The Same Run!

No binding fore/aft adjustment needed!  Seriously, it is Plug and Play!  It loves the pow and it wants to carve!

If I had to sell my arsenal and be limited to just 1 board this would be it!   It's that gooood!

Moss on the left......... and it draws sooo much attention on the hill it's almost annoying!

You just have to except the fact that your in the presence of a demigod slopestar and roll with it!

My.jpeg.b612233b87fa64c08eca5ac095f462f2.jpeg

Edited by barryj
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18 hours ago, barryj said:

Another season and I'm still sticking to my guns..... any Moss snowstick!

http://www.mosssnowstick.com/22-23

I've been in knee to waist deep sierra fluff on my PQ60 and Even in hardboots and TD3 SW SI's it just Goes!    

But you can pop out on the groomers and it will lay down the carves....On The Same Run!

No binding fore/aft adjustment needed!  Seriously, it is Plug and Play!  It loves the pow and it wants to carve!

If I had to sell my arsenal and be limited to just 1 board this would be it!   It's that gooood!

Moss on the left......... and it draws sooo much attention on the hill it's almost annoying!

You just have to except the fact that your in the presence of a demigod slopestar and roll with it!

My.jpeg.b612233b87fa64c08eca5ac095f462f2.jpeg

That Moss sounds like a killer board, I bid on one before buying the Sushi but got sniped at the last second.  It looks like you are riding the same high binding angles as on your more "traditional" boards?  I got a little stuck riding some unexpected powder last week on my old Burton Coil (early season rock board) and found it was really hard to get up when I sat in deep snow with those angles. Any insight on that besides don't fall?

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I run 67/62 on my Burton ultra prime rock powder board. you have to roll over and face uphill (toeside) with board pointing a bit downhill so as you push up with arms you can start moving.  I call it wallowing.  You might have to pack the snow with hands to get a good push when it get deep.

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4 hours ago, andygere said:

deep snow with those angles.

Yes, obviously don't fall but watch out for and avoid the Jerry's that are like landmines wallowing all over the hill on pow days but if it's over knee deep  your going to have to unclip from the bindings and wade  just to get to firmer or groomed ground.  if it bottomless your going to have to swim!  I've literally had to lay on top of the board and paddle out of the deep stuff.  Once on firmer ground build/stomp a shelf and use the board to flatten/level it enough you can step up on the board and then clipin....easier said than done......but easier with my TD3 stepins  

Also tree wells with plates is interesting!  I've  survived a couple of head first total immersions, nothing showing but bottom of my board!  I wasn't riding alone in the glades but I knew no one saw me pitch in, so I knew it was going to be all up to me to get out.

I had plenty of air, air pocket but any movement brought a mini avalanche down on me and my air pocket. I was fully extended head first almost vertical both times  so I could reach my binding quick release pull by my calves without much difficulty.   But once the board releases  you have to be prepared you could drop further in as you don't have anything keeping you from sinking deeper in the well! 

The 1st time I released both bindings and that made my situation worse and harder to get out.  The 2nd time I only released one binding  to be able to maneuver better with the board holding me from going deeper.  Both times I could hold myself with my hands against the tree trunk and start pushing  myself back up and out.  It took more time and energy than you would think.    

I would not want to try it with regular strap bindings...... I don't see how you would /could release ....but I guess people have survived that also.....

Be safe out there!

Edited by barryj
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On 11/17/2022 at 6:06 PM, barryj said:

Also tree wells with plates is interesting

Good advice on the tree wells, harrowing story.  I stuck to the open slopes and bowls with the Coil, and as ibrussell advised, I had to do the awkward roll of shame after sitting one time because snow was so soft and deep I couldn’t pack it down enough to push up with one arm.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...
On 11/17/2022 at 6:02 AM, barryj said:

Another season and I'm still sticking to my guns..... any Moss snowstick!

http://www.mosssnowstick.com/22-23

I've been in knee to waist deep sierra fluff on my PQ60 and Even in hardboots and TD3 SW SI's it just Goes!    

But you can pop out on the groomers and it will lay down the carves....On The Same Run!

No binding fore/aft adjustment needed!  Seriously, it is Plug and Play!  It loves the pow and it wants to carve!

If I had to sell my arsenal and be limited to just 1 board this would be it!   It's that gooood!

Moss on the left......... and it draws sooo much attention on the hill it's almost annoying!

You just have to except the fact that your in the presence of a demigod slopestar and roll with it!

My.jpeg.b612233b87fa64c08eca5ac095f462f2.jpeg

 

Hi Barry! that's the pq i've sold you  several  years ago, right?)))

 glad you are enjoying it! still the best topsheet design among all pq's imo!

p.s. have you tried the wing swallow 57?

i am looking for some feedback but the info is scarce on this board but boy i'm in love with its shape!

Edited by Karen
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7 hours ago, Karen said:

have you tried the wing swallow 57?

Yep, still got your "From Russia With Love" PQ60.            I save it for pow days mostly and since we got another 5 day storm coming in Tues. I know where I'll be Tues. night!

Yeah the Wing Swallow  shape is sexy.  I did try one and it didn't feel any different in ride than the U5 to me....which is a great ride,  floats great as expected and both can carve if you make it....... But I Still Say the PQ Wants To Carve which makes it my choice.

I also say if I had to sell my whole fleet of boards and could only have one board to ride I would keep the PQ!

Have you seen this years PQ topsheet?  I like the look and the local shop has one and it's much brighter in person.  Ha!  but I'm always looking for an excuse to get another! 

PQ60.jpg

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They make one called the PQ EX which has a natural wood top and is rated as being stiffer, I think….wonder if it’s a true ripper? I was on the chair at Lake Louise with a (Japanese, I think?) guy who was riding it. Ridiculously beautiful board so I happened to look it up. I’d buy it to say I had one or put on the wall, but powder days are once-a-season events around here so seems like a bit of a waste! 

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  • 1 month later...

Today I demoed a 153 Lib Tech Orca and I'm pretty impressed with it. My initial run was on about 3 inches of fresh snow on top of groomed surface. The board felt great underfoot and was stable at speed. It was fun to make big turns in the untracked fresh that was laying over the groom. Later in the day, as things got more chopped up, the board turned nicely in tighter turns.

The lack of a substantial tail took some getting used to, but I feel it is simply different from what I'm used to. Different, but a good different. My leg muscles are not use to the way the Orca rides, but I think it would just be a matter of time before it felt normal. Basically, it felt like some new muscles were firing, or being relied on more.

Later on, as the snow built, the Orca performed sweetly. On ungroomed runs, with about 8 inches of new snow, it felt great.

The board was good at going from powder runs onto the groomers - to get back to lifts or to just enjoy the groomers. Its not a board I would likely go to if I planned on riding groomed runs most of the day, but for a powder board that is good on groomers, I'd say this is a good design.

I've been looking to replace my old Burton Malolo 156, which is my present go-to directional all mountain powder board. I love how it rides. Different than the Orca, but also good. Malolo has a large spoony tip, early rise camber, but basically regular camber underfoot. The Malolo is about an 1 and 1/4 inches narrower at its waist than the Orca. Orca is shorter and has less swing weight at tip and tail (edging does not fully wrap the board, leaving tip and tail more vulnerable to damage, but lightening up swing weight at tip and tail).

The camber on the Orca is quite interesting with its "Banana Technology." The wavy gravy profile is very evident when you look down the board, or set it on a flat surface. It's counterintuitive, but it's a very nice ride.

Edges utilize Magne-traction. I don't really know if this technology is more gimmick than substance, but I have no complaints. I have one other board with it and its fine and not a bother to tune. I have no complaints about edge hold, but I was certainly not pressing its limits in that regard. Its a short board, so I can see how you would want every advantage to keeping good edge hold.

I like this board a lot.

IMG_0087.JPG

IMG_0116.JPG

IMG_0094.JPG

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On 12/25/2021 at 8:17 PM, neanderthal said:

Turns were effortless and could be super tight or long and drawn out but stable either way.

This is how the Gen 1 Furberg rides off piste as well—lightning quick tight turns and pivots, endless stability at speed, and uncanny float per volume.  Generous rocker, early taper, and a 20m scr. It remains, in my opinion, one of the most revolutionary off piste shapes ever produced. I keep one for resort powder days, another as my go-to split, and a third still in plastic. 

Edited by TWM
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8 minutes ago, barryj said:

Specs Man!   We need the Specs.......and a photo or two!!

Fair, fair. I am so sorry.  Let’s see, the only photo on hand is below - gen one is dark green, third from left. If I recall—173/27 20m scr on a fairly short effective edge but with long, early taper shovel and tail that are engaged off piste. Stiff too. For the record, this board rails hard on groom too — fast 

1A337781-FADC-4312-A6AE-2440B8327BCF.jpeg.ece3f3a73bde448f19d8f5beda506b8d.jpeg

Edited by TWM
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12 hours ago, TWM said:

Fair, fair. I am so sorry.  Let’s see, the only photo on hand is below - gen one is dark green, third from left. If I recall—173/27 20m scr on a fairly short effective edge but with long, early taper shovel and tail that are engaged off piste. Stiff too. For the record, this board rails hard on groom too — fast 

1A337781-FADC-4312-A6AE-2440B8327BCF.jpeg.ece3f3a73bde448f19d8f5beda506b8d.jpeg

It begs the question, for me at least, of how it performs compared to the Big Gun standing next to it?

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9 hours ago, lordmetroland said:

It begs the question, for me at least, of how it performs compared to the Big Gun standing next to it?

They’re fundamentally different. I’ve always wanted DPS to make a snowboard-wide ski for me to ride in pow; the gen one Furberg is as close as anyone’s gotten to that.

How one designs a board for primarily breakable snow surfaces (pow) rather than primarily hard pack (resort) snow differs greatly; the gen one is the only shape on that wall designed primarily for the former, and it’s the only board on that wall that derives curvature for turning more from rocker than sidecut. 

The 195 Glissade, 193 Dupraz, and 187 Donek (which I designed for AK) are all unsinkable in the pow — their forward surface area allows one to charge pow with little change to one’s normal fore-aft weighting. You can weight forward and charge. They’re also large radius turners—best at big, fast pow turns in open terrain or romping atop chop at speed. While they plane up fast, their shapes don’t otherwise beget easy slarving or pivoting with sluggish slow turn in and out. Their long tails are no friend of tighter terrain. 

The gen one, on the other hand, focuses surface area toward the middle of the board. It requires more centered weighting. Its long sidecut, mellow rocker, and early tapered ends afford extremely even pressure along the length of the edge, making it more stable at speed (less distal volume is also less prone to being tossed by variations in snow surface) and yet also very easy to pivot, slarv and smear. It takes more speed to plane but carves powder like a dream, displacing less snow and carrying more speed through the turn as the stiff rocker is preflexled into the turn, if that makes sense.

I also have a 187 custom split whose core was shaped (not pressed) to rocker profile, and it too carries tremendous speed through turns while displacing surprisingly little snow as it’s not having to force camber to shape through the pow. 

I could go on, but those are some of the differences of these boards’ attributes off piste.

Edited by TWM
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On 4/4/2023 at 12:10 PM, TWM said:

This is how the Gen 1 Furberg rides off piste as well—lightning quick tight turns and pivots, endless stability at speed, and uncanny float per volume.  Generous rocker, early taper, and a 20m scr. It remains, in my opinion, one of the most revolutionary off piste shapes ever produced. I keep one for resort powder days, another as my go-to split, and a third still in plastic. 

but quality was utter nuisance, making board unrideable in any substance other than when almost ANY board floats well. once I'm almost died after just found myself starting (unpredictably) icy couloir on that flimsy rockered shit

 

buit when you have something soft and deep under - yes, it's a revelation when I 1st tested it.

 

on the positive side - my lovely board for deeps now - when really soft boots make sense - is boheme valdez 174 (and that's comparing over some tens of pow boards in times, currently owning best of em: libtech hammock 165, undertaker 198, pogo secret spot 183). valdez IS surely made in alps by alps 🙂

Edited by terekhov
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I had a student, an aspiring back country rider, show up for a lesson with a Furberg split, Phantoms, AT boots... He barely could ride in resort conditions. After a while, I have switched him to my Nidecker Proto (black version) and he had a ball for the rest of the day. 

The said Nidecker is probably the best do-it-all board I ever had. Not quite to the original question, I know... 

Anyways, even for "just" pow, there is not "one best" board. Open alpine bowl - a swallowtail of some sort, tight trees - a short board with a fair bit of taper, heavy stuff that will turn into chop - a giant freeride board. 

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At the cat operator we used to carry a couple of Burton Fish on the roof of the cat, which we called "day savers". Those would come out when someone turned up with some weird board - I won't give examples as the argument would start. We could never people to use proper boards, but once they'd suffered on the first run and watched everyone else have fun, we could have sold those Fish to them for any money at all.

Actually I think there is a best board, in that what you get from those big boards - stability at slow speed on mellow slopes or "travel" in flat areas the rider hasn't spotted soon enough - I don't need.

It's rare for anyone to bring anything big into a BC helicopter these days. I'm going the other way, smaller and smaller.

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13 hours ago, terekhov said:

but quality was utter nuisance, making board unrideable in any substance other than when almost ANY board floats well. once I'm almost died after just found myself starting (unpredictably) icy couloir on that flimsy rockered shit

 

buit when you have something soft and deep under - yes, it's a revelation when I 1st tested it.

 

on the positive side - my lovely board for deeps now - when really soft boots make sense - is boheme valdez 174 (and that's comparing over some tens of pow boards in times, currently owning best of em: libtech hammock 165, undertaker 198, pogo secret spot 183). valdez IS surely made in alps by alps 🙂

We’ll have to disagree on flimsiness. I ride one on often hard resort snow too; while certainly not damp, it’s absolutely stiff and stout—and I’m 6’3” 225#—not flimsy. 

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On 4/6/2023 at 11:39 AM, TWM said:

We’ll have to disagree on flimsiness. I ride one on often hard resort snow too; while certainly not damp, it’s absolutely stiff and stout—and I’m 6’3” 225#—not flimsy. 

maybe it's 2nd generation, heard that quality issuies is total in 1st generation (from furberg himself in private email exchanges). all in all, geometry-wise it was a revelation, but it is WORST quality (manufacturing-wise and ride-wise other than IN snow) snowboard in years for me. absolutely uncarvable and umpumpable per se. too pity that I know no knock-off freeride board inspired by it - with normal camber and quality, but huge (important in pow!) radius and early-taper-rocker tips

 

commenting on board's PERFECTION - boards (as any objects) have properties, not purposes. when I start riding - older brothers told me "there's no boardercross boards - any board will do if rider can surely ride that shit on it and win", and after 20yrs I cannot disagree. there's perfect board for rider/style, and "this is a best board for carving/powder/etc" is a corruption for many riders. I use "carving" boards for any freeride conditions other than deeps, my lovely OES 164FC have done that for me for many years for example - I even guided cat-tours on it. for powder for many years I love swallowtails, but now that stability (as carve-board stability on grooms) make surfiness of pow eliminated. banana hammock shows way out, furberg furthers it, and now really big boheme (12m sidecut w/288mm waist) will do that for me

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