Stiffest softboots...

[Poloturbo]

Looking at Ride Insano next.

Less footprint but larger than Driver X low profile.

Rides come with intuition liners also and double boa. Tired of that quick lace system in the Malamutes. 

[Rob Stevens]

Your ability to carve properly in soft boots at low angles is not dependent on the stiffness in forward lean. 
Baseplate stiffness, strap hold, the boots heel hold down mechanism and overhang are far more critical. 
Learn to use internal forces to maintain ankle flexion and you get to keep the versatility soft boots were meant to provide. 

[powdahbonz]

Have had great experience with Salomon Malamutes-about ready for a new pair. While I like the boa convenience in boots, I'm glad mine are laces only. They have been burly and are super comfortable.

[Neil Gendzwill]

On 2/11/2021 at 9:43 AM, JRAZZ said:

Can't speak for the others but for me the short BSL allows lower angles, so does the lateral flex. However, I still want hardboot like support.

So in reality it's not re-engineering hardboots it's using softboots with their inherent advantages and removing a limitation.

Hmm.  When I measure my size 27.5 Raichles vs my size 10 Burton Ions, it's a half inch shorter for the Raichles.  That's measured from the drink & drive lever to the toe for the Raichle, and from the heel hoop on my Genesis X binding to the toe of the Ion.  So for me, hard boots are shorter.  My old 224s are pretty laterally flexy for hard boots, especially if I ride them with flexier bindings.  I can easily drive my back knee into my front knee.   I think the modern UPZ ATBs are even flexier.

I bought a soft boot setup last year for the first time in 3 decades, and I am enjoying it as a soft boot setup.  I don't see the point of replicating hard boot gear with softies: I have my hard boots and assorted boards for that.

[JRAZZ]

9 hours ago, Neil Gendzwill said:

my size 27.5 Raichles vs my size 10 Burton Ions

Well there's your problem. 27.5 Raichles are more equivalent to size 9. 

Also, I use NX2s for bindings. They don't have a heel loop which makes them even shorter.

 

On my 24cm waist Contra I could get about 35° on the rear foot while with the softboots I get 21° with similar bootout. For me that's a huge difference and makes the softboot version much more comfortable to ride.

[Neil Gendzwill]

1 hour ago, JRAZZ said:

Well there's your problem. 27.5 Raichles are more equivalent to size 9. 

[snip]

On my 24cm waist Contra I

Size 9.5 actually. Most people size down for hardboots. My softie board is a 26.3 cm waist, riding 12/27. 

[arneburner]

27.5 Flow Talon and nsx gt at 30-18 on a 26 wide board works for me. Plenty stiff for me. Can add a power strap if needed.

[JRAZZ]

Maybe the original title is wrong... What I care about is support (strength) not stiffness.

Played around with the Talons and they aren't hardboot stiff but they do provide a lot of support. Speaking of, I think, in general, that hardboot provide a lot of support with a lot of stiffness while softboots tend to be less stiff (duh) and less supportive. My ideal boot is not too stiff but really really supportive. Does this make any sense?

[TimW]

9 hours ago, JRAZZ said:

Does this make any sense?

Well,  you are a hardbooter converted to softboots, so you do not make sense to us anyway!

Anyway,  I have Northwave Domain (w Ride el Hefe) for softboots. Plenty stiff for me, I'd say stiffer than me Deeluxe LeMans fore/aft, more flex sideways (vs. Intec!). But in your reasoning, I agree there is a difference between stiffness and supportiveness. The hardboots feel more supportive to me.

Boot length is similar, but on the softboots this is right at the sole, on the hardboots it is much higher up. Only at the forward lean mech. the hardboots is longer, but there the highback would be on the sb. (Mondo 30)

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by TimW

[Rob Stevens]

21 hours ago, JRAZZ said:

Maybe the original title is wrong... What I care about is support (strength) not stiffness.

Played around with the Talons and they aren't hardboot stiff but they do provide a lot of support. Speaking of, I think, in general, that hardboot provide a lot of support with a lot of stiffness while softboots tend to be less stiff (duh) and less supportive. My ideal boot is not too stiff but really really supportive. Does this make any sense?

What you probably need are Phantom touring boots, or something like that. 
The flex is controlled by a spring, so you can set it where you want it. It’s also made of plastic, so when you hit its limit, it should stop, where a softboot would just keep going. 

[JRAZZ]

I think the intent of my original post was somewhat missed. I really like the Talon/Intuition combination and thought to point it out because I think it's unusual. I was more curious on how others are setting up softboots. 

[dragonrider]

On 2/10/2021 at 11:52 AM, Neil Gendzwill said:

I have pretty wide feet and the Burton Ions I have fit just fine.  I tried on some Driver Xs a few years back and they also seemed ok for width. FWIW I am EEE in dress shoes. 

good to know burton making boot for wide feet, about 6 years ago i shopped for driver x but unable to fit my eee in, i end up with salomon Malamutes. but quality kinda suck, I have broken 2 pair with broken pull string and one with broken pull tab. i may start look into burton again for the eee wide boot.

[Neil Gendzwill]

To be clear I haven’t tried on Drivers for a long time, maybe 10 years? My Ions are the leather ones from 2019. 

[lonbordin]

10 hours ago, Neil Gendzwill said:

To be clear I haven’t tried on Drivers for a long time, maybe 10 years? My Ions are the leather ones from 2019. 

I've tried on the last three years models as I've had an idea in the back of my head of upgrading my ole' malamutes...

I swear they've gotten softer each time I tried them on, still probably the stiffest most supportive softboot available.

[JRAZZ]

Now that I've had 3 days on these boots I can give an initial impression. STIFF!

Previously I had DriverX, Malamutes and Insanos. The DriverX and Malamutes are similar in flex/support though the Burtons have been going softer with the newer generations. Pretty soon they'll be park boots. When I try to initiate a turn with them my shins just sink in. Both are very comfortable but just don't provide enough support for me. The Ride Insanos were definitely stiffer and did provide some support but I never got along with them fit wise.

The Talons with the Intuition liners are significantly stiffer than all of these. I honestly thought I'd made a mistake first time I rode them. They actually hurt from being so stiff. It felt just like a hardboot. Thankfully they have mellowed out to the point where they are merely insanely stiff and not just rock hard. This is great for me! It's way easier to get the edge to engage and my riding has really improved. Surprisingly the most improved are the heelside turns where it's way easier to engage and not slide out. 

Not sure how I feel about taking these in bumps but steeps and just general craving are a blast! 

[lonbordin]

1 minute ago, JRAZZ said:

with the Intuition liners

The liners are the reason... it sure isn't the Talons.

[JRAZZ]

2 minutes ago, lonbordin said:

The liners are the reason... it sure isn't the Talons.

You're probably right... The stock liners didn't feel very stiff.

[Corey]

Which Intuition liner? They have quite a variety. 

[JRAZZ]

Intuition Plug liners

[Quentin]

Hi everyone- finally found this forum! I was a regular back in the BOL days! Coming back from years of injuries-Long story short-I need some help here. For the first time in my life I will have to buy new boots on-line as all my local shops are wiped out! What is the best stiff boot for a narrow foot? Currently my foot measures 28.5/AA with 29 arch length.
 

I was trying to look for insanos as I’ve heard good things, but not sure if they are good for a narrow foot. My setup will be the Union Atlas FC bindings and BV is currently building a new Contra BXFR for me if this helps. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

[andygere]

On 2/10/2021 at 8:36 AM, Neil Gendzwill said:

Wonder why Burton hasn't gone boa for the driver?  They've done it for the Ion.

I agree with this. The dual ripcords are a pain and I get tired of dealing with them when I need a quick adjustment. Stiffness is there though. I switched to Photons this year, not nearly as stiff as Drivers, but the heel hold is fantastic, they come in wide, and the dual boa adjustment really lets you dial them in easily. with Now O-Drive bindings, it's my most comfortable and least sloppy softie setup ever.

[TWM]

On 2/10/2021 at 8:11 AM, JRAZZ said:

Though my experiment with hardbooting is over (for now, who knows what tomorrow might bring) I still need a stiff setup. My Burtons are "OK" but not really up to the task. Every time I lean into the tongue they pretty much let me fall forward and don't support toe side turns.

I managed to find some NOS Nidecker/Flow Talons and stuffed a pair of Intuition wrap liners in them. The result is really really stiff, like hardboot stiff but with a much shorter BSL. I hope this will allow me to ride at the angles I find comfortable while giving enough support.

 

 

Just out of curiosity, for softbooters, what setup have you been using? 
 

I too have used Talons for several years. I'm on my third pair. They are the stiffest soft boot that I've found, and also compact (but it has a much longer BSL than my AT split boots).

I was disappointed that Nidecker discontinued the Talon this season. Their new top-of-the-line boot, the "Index," is an "expedition" and backcountry boot with an over-instep/ankle zipper.

[Shred Gruumer]

New Deeluxe Edge Pro.

I found this boot bieng talked about on the Japan forums last year as being a new deeluxe boot in 22/23 release... 

Its finally here, well kind of. I found only one shop in the USA  who brought it in (Backcountry.com)  I bought the only size 28, and i think they only brought in 3 other sizes, one each.  Obviously they don't know what its about but lucky for me I searched every day for the arrival of the boot as nobody at the shop could tell me when or hold a pair for me.   

I previously emailed deeluxe and asked.. who , what and when they were coming.   So i been waiting for a while (determination).

I have ride insano's and this boot is stiffer , thicker , beefier with a stage 4 liner.. don't know what that means but its one more than 3.  Its pretty plush, nice feel and comfortable, true to size im a size large 9.5 street shoe and the 28 fits good more room than less room in the toes.  Good heel pocket .

Deeluxe has an youtube for the boot.

Its a bit of a chore to get it snug up top, but the booster strap is a ton of help.  

Feels good, I also bought those Power Ride inserts from japan too in case I need them.. they work!

 

 

 

[Shred Gruumer]

 

[Sunan]

Burton Driver X+ Powerride W wing hard. this setup will give you sufficient lateral support as well.