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Softbooters heel/toe lift?


1xsculler
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On 1/25/2021 at 8:29 PM, Sasquatch_Surfer said:

Tried various types of risers in the past from Burton and Palmer, tried some canted beds as well, but prefer just riding flat now, there is a little toe lift on the binding foot bed, which I suppose helps some on the toe side. 

Is there much ramp in soft boots?

 

Yes, 8.1° in the new Burton’s I measured. 

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Use Catek Freeride bindings at 45 degrees front and 25 back. I use cant and heel lift on the back foot.    The cant and heel lift is infinitely adjustable with jack screws, so I'm not quite sure how much there is of each.   It was adjusted until my back knee was comfortable.  

 

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26 minutes ago, rail said:

Use Catek Freeride bindings at 45 degrees front and 25 back. I use cant and heel lift on the back foot.    The cant and heel lift is infinitely adjustable with jack screws, so I'm not quite sure how much there is of each.   It was adjusted until my back knee was comfortable.  

 

I have a pair of Cateks so maybe I should work with them. I even have them set up as stepins. 

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On 1/22/2021 at 6:33 PM, 1xsculler said:

Do most softbooters ride with heel or toe lift?

most snowboarders ride what marketing tells them to ride. if you're into numbers... lift/cant on softies is irrelevant for 99.99999999990187% of riders with the ability to notice any such of a difference, like it and have it affect their ability and performance in a turn *and* in a positive way. you can't carve three sixties without a heel lift cause you use your toes to press. that was a joke. sharpen and wax, yes. lifts/cants, gimmicks. hence, the SOFT boots. lift/cant makes sense in a rigid plastic boot and believe it has helped my personal riding, but even with the stiffest soft boot i don't believe in it whatsoever.

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Ok, I think I can add something to this conversation.  

First: I agree with @dhamann that 99.999999777% of softbooters and, frankly, softboot carvers need a stiff binding and boot set up, and that everything else is details not worth paying attention to.  However, if you truly want to try this there are practically speaking two options:

1) Power Plates: heavy as all get-out, a pain in the ass to remove for waxing / adjustments, but they work with every binding on the market and most importantly work very, very well for their intended purpose of increasing edge pressure and control.  Bonus is they are widely available, easy to find parts for, and not very expensive if bought used.

2) Catek FR2s: nice all-in-one package, but the kingpin centric design may cause a bit of stress.  I found them to come slightly loose after hard riding, to you for sure need to keep an eye on them before and during riding.  Highback is garbage, and straps are no where near modern standards even with the Nidecker version.  Relative to the Power Plates, I would skip them.

Both of the above options will allow inward canting and toe / heel lift.  If all you want to do is carve up groomers that are in good shape... they are both damn good, with an edge to the Power Plates.  If you want to do light-BX riding, trees, anything more than a little bumpy... skip them, please.  The extra height will do you no favors as the boots will not be stiff enough to compensate.  If you insist on toe / heel lift, buy a set of F2 RS plate bindings, or Carve Company, and a set of the softest possible hard boots and put that on anything thing you want (it will work very, very well).  

I have owned both, competed in both, done well in both, and now ride flat.  It is a philosophical stance, but I truly do think if you are going to ride softboots (not softboot boards) you should be taking advantage of the versatility... if you aren't, what is the point?  Hardboots can be just as warm, more supportive and performative / comfortable, the bindings last ten times as long and so do the boots (saving you a crapload of money over time) and you can ride them on any damn board you please so long as the boots / bindings are chosen correctly.

Edited by Atom Ant
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20 hours ago, Atom Ant said:

1) Power Plates: ...they work with every binding on the market...

Yes and no. Especially for big, dopey clown-footers like me. The metal chassis on Ride El Hefes cuts off right in front of the toe strap, leaving about 1/5 the EVA footbed with no support but the board underneath. Which is fine when there is board underneath, but the Power Plates don't extend much further than the chassis when adjusted for Bigfoot, leaving only the flaccid EVA footbed to support toesides and thereby defeating the purpose of the heavy Power Plates. Turning to XL Now O-drives, their footprint exceeds that of the Power Plate. The bumpers that support the binding, when seated on the Power Plates, hang off the sides by more than half. This may work, but any lateral movement under stress could send the bumper over the edge, likely causing the structure to fail. XL flows are fine, but again exceed the footprint of the Power Plate. These are the only brands I've tried...

More evidence in the snowboarding industry of systemic discrimination against clowns.

 

20 hours ago, Atom Ant said:

2) Catek FR2s: Highback is garbage, and straps are no where near modern standards even with the Nidecker version.

True that. May have been sourced by the Black Snow people. However, Ride components swap out beautifully in the FR2s. The fit is near perfect.

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I've recently been experimenting with heel lift under softboots.

The last three days have been my first on snow this year, and I decided to revisit my setup. Board is a Rome 148ST with a 284 waist. (Excellent board, A+)

I was having trouble bringing my heel turns around and remember having difficulty last year as well. After some consideration I realized I was trying to fall and then muscle my way into it rather than bringing the board under me with my feet before standing on it. This manifested in pushing against my highbacks and using my knees and squat to force the board up. Having your knees responsible for edge angulation leaves your suspension greatly diminished. This reliance on shin angle for board angle resulted in a braced squat during the turn. Not adaptable nor comfortable.

On realizing this, I made a conscious effort to bring my board under me with my feet and use only my ankles for turn shape control. Heel turns immediately improved to parity with toe turns. However, I now felt that I was actually holding the board up with my feet and my rear heel was floating behind me.

Solution? Aluminium tape. I stacked strips to make a single one approximately .125" thick and then stuck it on my board. It supports both the binding structure and the foam footbed.

After some riding and tuning, it's at .050" and will likely end up .030-.050" tomorrow. Initially I felt what I would normally associate with highbacks too far forward, despite them having no lean. Difficulty transitioning from heels to toes in a tight skidded turn, overly aggressive engagement skidding on heels. Those decreased along with the thickness of the shim.

 

Also, make sure your tape backing is easy to peel or roll a strip inside out. I picked way too many apart before I thought to roll it.

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