Quads are driving me nuts

[1xsculler]

At the end of last season I made a commitment to strengthen my quads as they were limiting my time on the hill so, every other day since mid March have done 3x10 dumbell squats , not deadlifts as previously stated, with 52.5 #s in each hand. 
 

I went up to Crystal on Tuesday (awesome conditions) and my quads burned just as badly, or worse, than last year.  It was very disappointing. 
 

Any help would be welcome. 

[Mr.E]

I'm not much help but:

a) I'm sure any aditional squats helped

b) I'm sure my own quad burn is more technique based than pure strength based. 

[carvedog]

I thought burning was lactic acid build up from muscles held in contraction for too long. 

Have you tried getting tall sometimes and stretching everything out?

 

[Corey]

As I get stronger, I ride harder and feel just as tired at the end of the day. I'm not shy to stop on the side of a run now though. You know, to socialize! (In the beforetime...)

Same question as the last two years though: Have any video? That may give us clues to give better advice. 

If you tell the doctor you hurt "down there", they're going to need more info before they can recommend a treatment. We can make guesses all day long though. 

[Kneel]

Deadlifts = too much fast-twitch(explosions), not enough slow-twitch(endurance) training. Too much anaerobic, not enough aerobic? Just guessing as I'm not a trainer, but I think you need to look at the big picture, not just boosting the lactic threshold, because at the end of the day, you've still exceeded that threshold.  Hopefully we have someone qualified here to introduce some real science to this.

[lowrider]

If it's just quads and your heart isn't pounding to get out of your chest i'm thinking you have an issue with a neural stance with your setup. Both legs same pain ? Fore aft position on board ? Keep the clues coming well figure you out !!! Carpet carve for us and see how long before your burning.

[Keenan]

https://www.sportlegs.com/

I use these early season and when riding multiple days.

[lowrider]

Eating a banana at lunch got me down the mt @MCC

[Allee]

Ummm,deadlifts? Deadlifts are a posterior chain exercise. They don't do anything for your quads. For that you need to be squatting (ideally) or at least wall sitting.

And quite honestly, 3 sets every other day isn't going to do anything. That's not even close to enough volume to encourage any sort of strength gains.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Allee

[crackaddict]

Okay Sculler.  Listen carefully this time... You got a lot of advice last season but it seems you only heard what you wanted to hear.   I'm not re-reading the entire thread right now, but I doubt anyone would have recommended doing only one exercise with heavy weights all summer.

For this season, don't stress; you are stronger than last year, you surely have more muscle mass with all those dead lifts.  However, now you have to teach those new muscles how to snowboard.  Do that by riding.  Your new muscle fibres pretty much only know how to deadlift right now but they will adapt quickly.

You also have to develop anaerobic endurance in your legs.  Anaerobic endurance is very movement specific, so it's difficult to build it up pre-season, but it comes fast if you ride regularly.  If you ride two or three times a week you'll be close to your peak by x-mas.

So my advice for now is ride hard and take as much rest as you need to fully recover.   That might mean two days of rest for each day of hard riding through December, and then less rest and more riding as the season progresses.  Don't dig yourself into a hole by riding too much and not resting enough like last season.  Don't ride if your body is tired, you need high quality rest to recover, and you need to fully recover to continue getting stronger.  Easy days can count as rest days, but if you're sore the next morning you should take the day off.  The season is long, take it slow.

For next season, add some variety to your routine this summer.  That will help prepare you better and reduce the chance of injury too.  You can't just go cold and do three sets and call that a workout.  It might be better than nothing, but it's priming you for injury, especially at your age and skill level.  You should be doing ten to twenty sets with light weights in quick succession just to warm up your body and get your blood flowing...  Do the same exercises you plan to do later in your workout, get your heart rate up for at least five minutes.  Then...  Add some squats, some lunges, some jumping and such to your routine.  Core work is always good too, variety will produce even better results.  (Bodybuilders will do the same exact exercise in the same exact range of motion to develop muscles that bulge out and look good, athletes will vary their positions and range of motion constantly to build a healthy, functional body.)

My favorite preseason exercise: Deep, slow squats with 20lbs per hand, making sure not to stand up all the way and rest on each rep.  Keeping my legs bent and not resting on each rep goes some way toward my anaerobic endurance, two or three seconds up and two or three back down simulates snowboard turns reasonably well.  It burns.

It's also quite possible your stance is causing the stress on your quads.  Can you straighten your legs all the way and stand comfortably on flat ground?  Maybe you just have too much forward lean in your boots?

 

[big mario]

https://mtntactical.com/exercises/mnt110-leg-blaster/

I will second the above post. Now for fun, try to get through a few rounds of the mini leg blasters without curling up in the corner in the fetal position sucking on your tear soaked thumb. These. Are. Deceptively BRUTAL. But highly effective. 30 seconds of rest between. They are also quite humbling, you may need to work up to the prescribed number of sets, as well as down to the painfully short rest period.  I have found these to be much more betterer than stupid heavy squats for me. Your mileage may vary. 

In the interim, hit up the sports legs, be dynamic on the board to help flush out the lactic acid, and be patient

I didn't prep this year due to low expectations for the season.  I may have made a slight tactical error there, trying to ride my fat ass into shape at the moment

Mario

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by big mario
Repetitive redundant wordiness. Decided to add a most funnerer word

[Pat Donnelly]

Hey 1xsculler

Seems I recommended this a few years ago . . . https://www.sportlegs.com/  be sure to take this supplement per the label directions ie., BEFORE you ride on day 1 and repeat as directed.  SportLegs will not help the burn after it has started so don't try on day #2 and report back they did not help.  It's not a miracle supplement but something to buffer the burn.  When you complete your day, walk around the parking lot or at least the base area and keep the fluids flowing. 

Is this the year you will post up some video clips or photos of your riding for the community to help coach your riding to the next level?  

[1xsculler]

Thanks for all of your comments. 
Pat, I tried Sportlegs a season or two ago at your request and I don’t remember being able to tell any difference but I have most of a bottle left so I will try again. 

I really thought those barbell dead lifts would at least help a little bit as I have never done any resistance training for my legs in the past.  I do, however, row 7k (40’) about five days/week, both aerobically and anerobically which you would think would help.

l have no interest in sending a vid until I can link up a half dozen pencil-line  big arc turns like I could in 2005. Sending a vid of a bunch of skidded out turns would be too embarrassing AND whatever stranger I found on the hill to vid me would probably run off with my new iPhone. 

I board 2 to 3 days/week for ten runs (2hours) and am home by 1:00 to work on my honey do list until my wife gets home from work about 4:00. That’s my routine and I’m stickin’ to it. 
 

I’ll take some of the advice you guys have offered and try to figure it out. 
 

IF I can find a person to take a vid I might do it. 

[dgCarve]

7 hours ago, Mr.E said:

b) I'm sure my own quad burn is more technique based than pure strength based. 

I tend to agree with this statement, most probably it is not your muscles, but technique.

I used to ride very low stance - my quads were done by end of two hour riding session.
I have changed my technique. When my legs requires most of their strength (in apex of the turn), I keep them bent just enough to have some room for adjustment during the turn. This does not mean that I ride straight - I use angulation as much as I can. I do not use pressure to make my turns smaller - I just put board higher on edge if needed. This way my cardio usually becomes problem sooner than my leg strength :-).

[Carvin' Marvin]

Never mind, what's the point...

[1xsculler]

Correction. I have been doing squats, not dead lifts. Sorry for the game changing mistake. 
I edited my original post. 

[pow4ever]

I did the same one year. Pre-season work out: squat, deadlift, lunge, eating right
Was disappointed at the ROI.  Does it help; yes but not as much as one hope.
Without proper technique is just not sustainable.  It does allow me to ride longer, recover faster even with my poor technique.  Eventually diminishing return hit.

Put it differently: 
One can train to held their breath for 3-4 minutes (in approximation to strength context).  It's an impressive feat but not practical in the grand scheme of thing when you want to ride top to bottom which could take 15+ minutes.

Ride loose, relax, with proper timing, only engaged major muscle/quad group when you need to.

Put it in running context/rowing context:
For me the first mile never got easier; it's just the pain tolerance goes up.
It help but it's not magic.

[David Kirk]

I'll take a different tack on this one....I think it's entirely possible that your quads are plenty strong but that you are holding your breath while you ride. It's amazing how many people do this while concentrating on form or technique or terrain.

Try riding while breathing rhythmically....breathe in on a toe turn and out on a heel turn.....or find your own tempo. I'll bet that if you consciously breathe and those big hard worked muscles get ample oxygen that you'll feel much stronger for much longer.

I hope that helps.

 

dave

 

 

[1xsculler]

I’ll try some of these suggestions on Monday, hopefully, as well as try to make comparisons between my Swoard 168S and a couple of new Coilers. My Swoard is the softest flex board I’ve ridden and I think that is why it’s my go to board along with my 166 Coiler Contra prototype which I got last spring. I’m trying to get a new 172 Coiler Contra dialed in too.

My stance and technique are probably contributing to my quads issue.

[Mr.E]

Might try sticking on your easiest board for a few weeks until the legs come back. I'm resisting the urge to jump on the harder-to-ride boards untill I get more time to loosen up. 

[1xsculler]

“Legs come back” doesn’t seem to apply to me unless we’re talking thirty years ago. 
 

 No problem, I’ll forge on!

[west carven]

howdy 1xsculler

at 2 to 3 days/week for ten runs (2hours) it will take you forever to get anywhere near good.

if you want to get good you need more commitment than that. and as for burning quads it is

poor technique as you are fighting the board. every board shape will tell you how it needs to

be ridden. and finding the board rhythm is a dance and you have to flow with your partner.

early season is always tough as there is no real preseason workout that will help with the

muscle motion that carving requires. burn those quads then burn it even more, no pain no gain.

I know you went through a lot of fine gear... don't blame the gear... work harder... it ain't easy...

[1xsculler]

9 hours ago, west carven said:

howdy 1xsculler

at 2 to 3 days/week for ten runs (2hours) it will take you forever to get anywhere near good.

if you want to get good you need more commitment than that. and as for burning quads it is

poor technique as you are fighting the board. every board shape will tell you how it needs to

be ridden. and finding the board rhythm is a dance and you have to flow with your partner.

early season is always tough as there is no real preseason workout that will help with the

muscle motion that carving requires. burn those quads then burn it even more, no pain no gain.

I know you went through a lot of fine gear... don't blame the gear... work harder... it ain't easy...

I appreciate your chiming in!

[Corey]

9 hours ago, west carven said:

at 2 to 3 days/week for ten runs (2hours) it will take you forever to get anywhere near good.

if you want to get good you need more commitment than that.

I disagree, mildly.  I think you can have fun as an amateur (aren't we all!) with any amount of time per week/month/year in alpine snowboarding.  You can go out and have fun on the snow with whatever time you have.  If your goals are higher than only having fun, then your time commitment scales appropriately.  

I see an extremist attitude in many hobbies, and I don't like it.  It's grown as internet/media has focused us into ever-shrinking niches.  There's always someone who will invest more time than you, and they may view your time invested as a lack of commitment.  If I go bowling with friends, serious bowlers probably laugh at me in my rental shoes and my lack of technique.  I don't care, I had fun!  

Me?  Barring any vacation trips, I get one day on the snow about every 2 weeks from late December to sometime in March.  Sometimes I'll swing 2 days on that weekend if everything lines up.  Plus 3 or 4 days over the Xmas break.  I'd love to ride more, but I have other priorities (family, career, etc) that hold a higher value in my life.  

Every one of us strikes our own personal balance.  The hard part is being true with yourself as to where you are, where you want to be, and if you're willing to sacrifice something else to focus on the chosen activity.  

[arneburner]

On 11/27/2020 at 4:26 PM, big mario said:

https://mtntactical.com/exercises/mnt110-leg-blaster/

I will second the above post. Now for fun, try to get through a few rounds of the mini leg blasters without curling up in the corner in the fetal position sucking on your tear soaked thumb. These. Are. Deceptively BRUTAL. But highly effective. 30 seconds of rest between. They are also quite humbling, you may need to work up to the prescribed number of sets, as well as down to the painfully short rest period.  I have found these to be much more betterer than stupid heavy squats for me. Your mileage may vary. 

In the interim, hit up the sports legs, be dynamic on the board to help flush out the lactic acid, and be patient

I didn't prep this year due to low expectations for the season.  I may have made a slight tactical error there, trying to ride my fat ass into shape at the moment

Mario

 

Thanks for the link. Like this workout.  My butt and knees not so much!