Plate Test Part 2

[Jack M]

10 hours ago, barryj said:

Do you have any experience with the Vist Snowplate 07 ??

I rode one in 2010.  It sits on the board so it is a flex modifier.  It's not lightweight.  It will make your board run longer, which could be a good thing if you feel your board is too turny while naked.  If that's not what you want then I would look towards an Apex or Donek AF or one of the Allflex Carve plates.

[slapos]

my 2 cents (or two groszy should I say given my location)

I did ride all types (not all brands out there mind you):

- full isolation - Apex X on 4x4 pattern

- Vist/FG plate

- Allflex longitudinal

- geckos carve

- goltes raisers

Full isolation plate rides great in almost all conditons, but that is only if you like the snow detached feeling. I personally dont, however I do recognize that the most fun I had on ice was with Apex X plate.

Full isolation plate is a completely different beast to an allflex or VIST/ FG plate.

Allflex imho rides very comparable to vist/fg type of plate - call me stupid but I could not feel so much difference to justify the 800 euro price difference between the two.

Sure it does work well, it looks great and there must be something about if the guys world cup ride it right?

Compared to Vist I much prefer the FG plate (https://www.facebook.com/fgsnowboardplates). Its more lightweight, its leaner design and doesnt block if screwed in too hard like vist does from time to time. 

I didnt notice FG plate making your board ride longer - it makes more stable at speed, but i did not notice that I am doing longer turns. Maybe FG is a little softer the vist and not impacting the flex that much.

most importantly for me you put on the Vist/FG/Allflex on your board and you can forget about them very quickly. Sure you can feel the weight from time to time, but at least the feeling of snow is still there.

Geckos/risers are nice, but I dont think they yield enough additional power for the price they offer.

I have never raced, I only do freecarve and imho the best price to addtional power ratio is defo FG plate or Vist...

I will sometime shortly give a try to plastic allflex to see how it compares to aluminum one. Feels like the allflex carve is roughly 700 euros ? Seems a little expesnive for a plastic plate, especially if you can buy alu allflex at the end of the season for approx 900 euros?

Ironrok carbon fiber plates seems an interesting one - I would need to give it a shot if this is the ultimte plate. I dont see the world cup guys picking up on it yet.

Also JJ plates look quite awesome and have not heard/seen anybody say something bad about them. I fear however the snow detached feeling.

just 2 groszy. nothing more.

[bigwavedave]

 

1 hour ago, slapos said:

Compared to Vist I much prefer the FG plate (https://www.facebook.com/fgsnowboardplates). Its more lightweight, its leaner design and doesnt block if screwed in too hard like vist does from time to time. 

I didnt notice FG plate making your board ride longer - it makes more stable at speed, but i did not notice that I am doing longer turns. Maybe FG is a little softer the vist and not impacting the flex that much.

The FG looks similar to Donek F plate. I have no personal experience with "Vist-type" plates, but my daughter raced with both and told me she much preferred the Donek F compared to the Vist for similar reasons you mention. 

[Jack M]

Stock 185 new last season. I will be buying this Allflex longitudinal cut GS plate that I-carve provided for review. This is a match made in heaven for ludicrous speed! I hated this plate on my K168, completely different situation on the 185. Love it!! Smooth, stable, fast, unflappable. Turns tighter than I expected, almost like the bare board. The weight is no big deal and quickly feels normal (not so for the spring plate). I can easily see why these replaced Apex in racing. 
 

[SunSurfer]

@Jack M Do you have a sense of why such a different experience between your K168 and the K185?

[i-carve.com]

2 hours ago, SunSurfer said:

@Jack M Do you have a sense of why such a different experience between your K168 and the K185?

ALLFLEX Longitudinal (LG) Normal type plate and slalom board will not work together. Period. 

ALLFLEX Longitudinal (LG) Normal type is meant for long GS boards with large scr. It's way torsionally too stiff for shorter slalom boards (K168 is nothing but enlarged slalom board with short scr). For slalom boards are recommended ALLFLEX Longitudinal U or H type plates, and new ALLFLEX Super H plate which will be introduced shortly. These plates are lighter and torsionally softer. 

[pokkis]

Agree, i used H-type on my K168, it worked fine, now it is back on my ProTeam 163XT

[James Ong]

7 hours ago, Jack M said:

Stock 185 new last season. I will be buying this Allflex longitudinal cut GS plate that I-carve provided for review. This is a match made in heaven for ludicrous speed! I hated this plate on my K168, completely different situation on the 185. Love it!! Smooth, stable, fast, unflappable. Turns tighter than I expected, almost like the bare board. The weight is no big deal and quickly feels normal (not so for the spring plate). I can easily see why these replaced Apex in racing. 
 

 

Can you  comment on the feel ? whether it's isolated from the snow like the bomber plates?

[Jack M]

On 2/20/2021 at 5:47 AM, James Ong said:

Can you  comment on the feel ? whether it's isolated from the snow like the bomber plates?

Feel is very good. A little less snow feel and feedback than Apex, a lot more than Bomber.

Edit - @James Ong I need to update this post, I recently got back on my Apex after only riding the Allflex plates pictured above this season.  Suddenly the Apex felt vague and soft and more isolated/disconnected in comparison.  Allflex is definitely a powerful and more direct system, it's no mystery to me why it completely replaced Apex in racing.

[James Ong]

I was able to track this one that donek never released, it's fixed on one end and friction slider setup on the other.Ridden on a stock 185 kessler.

Board feel isolation is close to the old donek f plate, there is a moderate smoothing of the bumps . Board flex is modified quite a bit, with also a substantial speed increase . Turns an already fast board into a rocket, challenging for sure.

 

 

 

[Jack M]

On 2/20/2021 at 1:58 AM, SunSurfer said:

@Jack M Do you have a sense of why such a different experience between your K168 and the K185?

What @i-carve.com said. It simply did not bend enough for that board. @WinterGolduses a non-spring Allflex on his SL board with great success, but it’s a medium flex triangular cut. Mine is longitudinal cut. Not sure if it’s medium or hard or what.  In any case it will be permanently affixed to my GS board where it shines. 

[WinterGold]

I have quite some different experiences, but I understand that it varies a lot between different riders/riding styles. That is what I don‘t like about an Internet forum. Too many misunderstandings. That‘s why I stopped posting. That said, some aspects ...

- I have done some of my tightest turns on plated boards - so in my case, they do not stiffen the board. They distribute the forces better and you can put even more power into the board.

- For SL - I hardly see any H or U models with the guys. I have no problems on SL with my medium standard plates (76kg, boards medium to hard flex (Oxess H)).

- I have tried a lot of different Allflex models. The differences are pretty marginal concerning the shapes and the cuts. And several pros agreed with me. But of course there are some differences and the spring plates add some other factors as well.

- the Allflex plates provide pretty good board and snow feel. And offer all the plate advantages (pressure distribution, vibration absorption, angle to the edges, added weight (good and bad ...)). So you gain more than you lose. In my opinion.

- no use to talk about the price here. Everybody decides for him/herself. 
 

Keep carving!

 

[Jack M]

11 hours ago, WinterGold said:

That‘s why I stopped posting.

Well, that makes me sad.  I find in general online that often all you can do is offer your opinion and let the chips fall where they may.  People can take it or leave it, it's up to them.  Your riding speaks for itself.  I would love to try your exact setup because it does look like it works very well for you.  The longitudinal cut standard Allflex I tried on my Kessler 168 was quite literally the worst feeling I've ever had on any alpine snowboard ever.  I could feel the board bending at the ends of the plate, and not in a good way.  The ride was completely lifeless, rigid, and metallic.  The longitudinal cut standard Allflex plate I'm using now on my stock Kessler 185 is wonderful, and works in perfect harmony with the board.  I've been able to turn it surprisingly tighter than I thought would be possible.

Hasn't the spring plate become the favorite for World Cup SL?

[i-carve.com]

Allflex in general is not recommending normal type plates for short boards. But as WinterGold said it varies a lot between different riders/riding styles. There are riders who are able to ride normal type plates on short boards pretty well. But most riders notice "collision" of board and plate scr. Feeling Jack described. That's why many male riders chose spring plate for short boards. On the other hand many female riders prefer U/H type (weight aspect) for slalom course.

BTW, Jack your plate is SOFT AGS LONGITUDINAL NORMAL type. 
 

[Jack M]

20 minutes ago, i-carve.com said:

BTW, Jack your plate is SOFT AGS LONGITUDINAL NORMAL type

Well I love it on the K185.  I think the one I tried on my K168 was medium or hard, I will try to find out from the owner.  I should re-try this new one on the K168.

[WinterGold]

Ok, I would not use a hard plate for my weight and it was never recommended. But the medium one works perfect for me.

If you watch the World Cup closely, you can see that more guys still use the normal plate, even on their SL boards. But some top riders are on springs, so it is really personal preference. With the spring you gain more freedom of movement, different feeling for the turn initiation, but you lose some stability and gain extra weight. So depending on your focus you would choose your plate.

For us mortals, we are talking about pretty small differences .

#edgepassion

[TVR]

"Ok, I would not use a hard plate for my weight and it was never recommended. But the medium one works perfect for me."

Can I ask what your weight is? My son is getting very strong now, so as he now passes 176lbs, I am looking toward the allflex design......

[Jack M]

6 hours ago, WinterGold said:

But the medium one works perfect for me.

You use the triangular cut version, right?

I know Benjamin Karl uses the spring plate for SL.  I tried it for several days and it is awesome and powerful but it is significantly heavier than a non-spring plate.  It requires more work, but pays rewards.  If I was a young academy buck riding 5-6 days a week and doing dryland training, I'd have one.  But for my middle-aged ass it was a bit much.

[WinterGold]

TVR, I am 168lbs ... the medium flex is recommended for most male riders. Only really heavy or very powerful rider would go for the hard one, especially if you are looking for a lot of stability.

Jack, I use triangular and longitudinal. This season I am also riding the composite carve edition. 
The spring version is really cool, but I like the feeling of the normal plate better. And you are right, you can feel the added weight a little bit and the springs are annoying if you go up a t-bar

And Jack, don‘t take inspiration from Benji, as his equipment is pretty unrideable, even for most other WC riders. Starting with his aluminium plate monster back in the days to his extremely stiff boards, I‘d say his setup is rather „special“

[Jack M]

Guess I’ll have to test this next season... Allflex Super H...

 

[daveo]

1 hour ago, Jack M said:

Guess I’ll have to test this next season... Allflex Super H...

 

Interesting- what's the deal with this one?

[Jack M]

28 minutes ago, daveo said:

Interesting- what's the deal with this one?

Just by looking at it you can tell it's softer both lengthwise and in torsion, all else being equal.  The idea is that it could be an alternative to the much heavier spring plate.

[daveo]

8 minutes ago, Jack M said:

Just by looking at it you can tell it's softer both lengthwise and in torsion, all else being equal.  The idea is that it could be an alternative to the much heavier spring plate.

Interesting. Looks good. Maybe I bought one....... Maybe I didn't. 

[ThePeonsChamp]

12 hours ago, Jack M said:

Guess I’ll have to test this next season... Allflex Super H...

 

Would this one be a better alternative for all day freecarving perhaps?

[Jack M]

6 hours ago, ThePeonsChamp said:

Would this one be a better alternative for all day freecarving perhaps?

I think so.  It will be significantly lighter than the spring plate, and I presume the lightest Allflex available.  Should be more forgiving too.  However some people really like the traditional solid plate on a SL board for freecarving, e.g. WinterGold.  Go find him on Instagram for video and photo evidence.  I tried my soft solid plate on my SL board and it's not my cup of tea, but I am using Bombers.  Maybe that's a bad combination, or maybe it's just my style.  This combination resulted in a tiny sweet spot for me to get carves to happen.  When they did it was great, but if I did not nail the sweet spot exactly the board would oscillate.