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Wide board, high binding angles, binding bias?


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My preference is to ride with both my bindings set at around 60 degrees. This trip I've been at 65F & 60R while I've tried a few other experiments with stance distance and lift.

I've been riding a RadAir Obsession Pinkerman Extreme 169 in the afternoon soft snow. It's big wide nose won't bury in the soft snow piles that are skidded up by then. I tried an experiment with something like Gilmore Bias but not quite, to see whether that would help me ride a widish board (25.5cm waist, 28.7cm nose, 28.5cm tail, approx. 9m SCR) but at my preferred angles. The conventional answer would be to lower the binding angles so that heel and toes were close to each edge for both feet.

https://imgur.com/a/83XIjIV 

The Imgur link has pictures to make absolutely clear what was done. F2 bindings allowed me very slightly more bias than my TD3s.
Front binding was biased so that the heelside was as far as possible towards the heelside edge without the boot heel getting outside the board profile.
Rear binding was biased so that the toeside was as far as possible towards the toeside edge without the boot toe getting outisde the board profile.

Riding with the bindings conventionally placed it was possible to carve with my normal technique used for a narrower board but angling the board on edge was a lot of effort.
Riding with the bindings biased as described it was possible to carve with my normal technique and feel that it was easy to get the board angled high on either edge and to flick quickly from one to the other.

Edited by SunSurfer
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The title is a question, but the post is all statements. Are you sharing findings or asking permission from the collective consciousness?  I mount my F2 mounting discs longitudinally too to help dial in the bias even on my narrow boards.  Occasionally I've even linked a few turns together so it must be working.  I'm glad someone is getting some turns in.  I started getting the snow itch this week since we are socked in by a wildfire.

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I'd suggest that you learn to ride the lower angles too and get rid of the bias altogether, even on the narrower boards. It leads to riding the heel side mostly of the front foot and toe of the back foot. It could be OK for very narrow stances and "face the nose" alignment, but it's not the most efficient or versatile way... Also, lots of underhang can lead to lower leg injuries. 

Edited by BlueB
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While I loved my Pinkerman and Obsession from Rad-Air, I would also recommend you try what BlueB mentioned above and upgrade to a newer board.

Your Pinkerman Extreme is 26 years old and board technology has come a long ways since then and even wide boards from the last 5-10 years can be ridden with hardboots and plates without bias at higher angles.
 

I know the OP wasn’t about the board and Sunsurfer I am a Rad-Air global ambassador and love their boards, but I think a newer board would help your riding technique/bias issues and still let you ride at your preferred angles.

 

cheers

Edited by svr
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I've just bought a 2nd hand but unused Thirst Superconductor for US$800. With $ conversion rates, fees, Covid era shipping rates, NZ border taxes and fees, I will end up paying over NZ$2200 for the pleasure of riding it next year. At those kinds of costs I aim to make the most of what I already have. I suspect the Pinkerman/Obsession spent a lot of those 26 years in somebody's garage cause it's in pretty good shape. I enjoy riding it.

Shot this video of the Pinkerman at work at the start of today on the run closest to the base buildings using a GoPro, Narrow FOV, then cropped, so the definition isn't great.
The whole of August has been warm and short on snow here in New Zealand. The conditions at the start of today were very thin groom over ice, rapidly becoming loose granular snow on ice. Despite that, the crowds were like a weekend day.

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Chouinard said:

That’s a great deal...

A great deal, but still a lot of money. The hardest bit is going to be looking at a new Thirst Superconductor for nearly a year until I get it on snow. And the memory of riding yours gnawing at me!!!

Hopefully next year won't be quite as exceptional a winter as this one, reported to be in the warmest 3 winters in the last 110 years, and with snowpack in many monitoring sites just half of long run average.

Edited by SunSurfer
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So to piggy back on this thread and the notion of wide boards and binding angle I remember reading something here about lower angles and them nullifying toe/heel lift and that there is an angle that you want to start laying off the lifts.

I just picked up a thirst CC with a 23.5 waist so I am wondering if anyone has some tips as to whether I should try a toe/heel lift on my f2s with their standard 4.5? As of now I have my f2s with both toe and heel with their respective lifts. 

 

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I ride my wider board (F2 AXXIS GTS 164) w 24cm waist at 50/45°, F2' race bindings, standard F2 toe/heel lift, no cant. Just as I did w my SL boards in the past. Tried also wider ones around 25-26cm (F2 Eliminator, Völkl Coal Race, Dupraz D1) - all with the same binding set up. Adjusted only angle and stance. Feels just right for me.

UPZ RC11 - MP295

Give it a try. Adjust later if needed.

Edited by wulf
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The widest board I ride in hard boots is 24.5, if memory serves I’m around 40f/35b on that one. Maybe 35/30? It’s been a minute since I mounted up the Tanker.  My others are all 21.5 or 22 and I ride them 55/50 which is the point for no overhang with my size 27.5 boots. I could go lower angled but I don’t think I’d be happier higher. 
 

Sunsurfer, have you ever tried lower angles?

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14 hours ago, ThePeonsChamp said:

So to piggy back on this thread and the notion of wide boards and binding angle I remember reading something here about lower angles and them nullifying toe/heel lift and that there is an angle that you want to start laying off the lifts.

I just picked up a thirst CC with a 23.5 waist so I am wondering if anyone has some tips as to whether I should try a toe/heel lift on my f2s with their standard 4.5? As of now I have my f2s with both toe and heel with their respective lifts. 

 

Depends on your physical constitution, preferences and boots that you use. Carpet carving is your friend 🙂

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4 hours ago, Neil Gendzwill said:

Sunsurfer, have you ever tried lower angles?

Yes. Mondo 29 boots impose some limits to how low I can get without overhang.

I've never felt comfortable with more - body position lower angles create. I don't find balance and edge angle control to be as easy on heelside when I compare it with the + position I'm riding in the video. I'm 61, and have some lower back issues, so I don't have the trunk rotation capabilities that many of the great riders in the "Softboot carving worth watching" video thread are able to produce.

I also find that the + stance allows my knees to flex/extend for shock absorption without major changes in edge angle control.

It's a personal preference that I can make work to my satisfaction. I'm well aware it's not the received wisdom from the snowboarding priests.

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I switched to a race based stye a few years ago. All input from the ground up. Toes/heels, knees, hip. Upper body as counterbalance to keep COG always over the edge. Minimal upper body rotation. Centered stance. Minimal fore/aft movement. Creates very good control and a stable feeling on the edge.  Works very well with wider boards and in a variety of conditions. Found that wider boards and angle around 45ish gives me the best compromise of power, control & fun. Hardboots only of course ...😎

 

Edited by wulf
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