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Covid #'s trending down in Canada


lowrider
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20 minutes ago, bumpyride said:

Lest we all forget (which I'm sure no one has) Big Pharma doesn't really give a crap for anything but the bottom line.

 

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/pfizer-eyes-higher-covid-19-vaccine-prices-after-pandemic-exec-analyst

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-01/pfizer-moderna-increase-eu-vaccine-pricing-in-latest-deals-ft
 

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2 hours ago, lowrider said:

 

I'm beginning to understand why it took so long for snowboarding to be accepted by the flat earth  society.

Can hardly blame them, they were afraid of falling off.

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I like flat earthers....
Their data is easy to counter and disprove.
They don't demand you "follow the science" while also stating "The science is settled", as science never is.
They don't call you names when you provide counter scientific evidence.
They don't dismiss evidence because it comes from a source they don't like.
They don't call you anti-anything and debate the subject, even if with very limited and faulty information that is easily disproved.

I like flat earthers..........
They are entertaining and fun to debate with.....

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1 hour ago, TVR said:

I like flat earthers....
Their data is easy to counter and disprove.
They don't demand you "follow the science" while also stating "The science is settled", as science never is.
They don't call you names when you provide counter scientific evidence.
They don't dismiss evidence because it comes from a source they don't like.
They don't call you anti-anything and debate the subject, even if with very limited and faulty information that is easily disproved.

I like flat earthers..........
They are entertaining and fun to debate with.....

I like them too I just don't like it when their agenda is leading us over the cliff . No one put them in charge but they are controlling the agenda . It's pretty interesting that we are personally in charge of our own destiny at this point in time and the debate seem to be exactly that but many are unable to agree what is clear to me the better of many choices !

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59 minutes ago, lowrider said:

I like them too I just don't like it when their agenda is leading us over the cliff . No one put them in charge but they are controlling the agenda . It's pretty interesting that we are personally in charge of our own destiny at this point in time and the debate seem to be exactly that but many are unable to agree what is clear to me the better of many choices !

The Flat Earthers agenda certainly doesn't lead anyone off a cliff man...heh...  They just believe the earth is flat, and the rest know better....  They are also not in charge at all... and in fact, one might argue those disbelieving them are controlling the agenda....

Maybe the point was too subtle...

The point was, one can have a civil conversation with a Flat Earther. They don't attack the presenter of the counter-narrative, but instead attack the data. Granted, their data is flawed, but it presents a good conversation, and even if no minds are changed of the presenters, those who observe might get some new data. 

There is a plethora of new information being exposed every day and it is a shame so much of it cannot be openly discussed. People don't want to even hear a counter narrative anymore, and I would say this extends to our sport here as well. Try having a discussion on bindings here and at some point in that conversation, someone will snark out a comment in an attempt to belittle their point to superiority. That was my point above...   The conversation is pleasant and the debate is rich. Without it, people disengage.....

I wonder how much unspoken information is never heard.

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I know what you all mean by having discussions with people that don't make any attempt at using data.  I like to just take a long walk and

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                                                                             _

Edited by bumpyride
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On 8/2/2021 at 11:27 AM, bumpyride said:

My wife who was the head of a large Microbiology Lab for 42 years is convinced that Covid will be around for at least a couple of years, and anything we can do to stay as safe as possible and get to the point where we can drive it down to where Variants will not be forming, is the least we can do.  In full disclosure, I share that opinion, and if anything, am more pessimistic than she.

 

I'm sure that it's going to evolve into just another thing that gets added to the flu shot every year, much like the original SARS vaccine (remember how that was going to kill us all a decade ago?).

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In order to have a meaningful conversation:  we need to established common ground.
I love to talk to those have different background than me (good to get out of my own bubble).
be it Kids, drunk, flat earther, Antfia, Q-Anon and etc.
However i also have different expectation in those context. 
I definitely have blind spot in my way of thinking but overall i believed in the good of people.
People don't agree with my view point are not my enemy.  Civility in discussion does seems to be a lost art lately.

Finding the balance of keep an open mind vs protecting one's own sanity can be a tricky one.

On finding common group:
Do we need to to spent 300+ page of proof to establish 1+1 = 2? 
*BERTRAND RUSSELL & ALFRED NORTH WHITEHEAD – Principia Mathematica 1+1=2
It's a spectrum:  if we do not agree on the fundamental; then it's often fruitless to debate/mind changing.

Funny thing to me is:
If someone is so open to new ideas; willing to change core beliefs based on fact/data.
The likelihood of such true flat earther believer is nil (my humble opinion).
I get that "statistics can be used to prove/disprove anything".

When things are neither black/white it take up mental space(limited hot cache) to process.
we ultimately want to file it under true/false bucket(no more ambiguous) or some might call it "side choosing". 
It's human nature to desire "no ambiguity"

For those such "enlighten" flat earther: their motive is what I find interesting.
Is the person want to be a contrarian? 
want to provoke thoughts?
being provocative/attention seeking? 
want to promote the idea "test the sign/dogma"?
just want to have fun?

my point if i had one:
life is too short to not enjoy it.
Be happy; whether people agree with you or not.
it's often outside our control.  Our desired of control is often the source of our pain.

very much like snowboarding...  
The more i want to do better; the less fun/control i have.
When i just let it go and have fun is often when i make the most progress.

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1 hour ago, TVR said:

seriously? a reporter wrote this headline, same guy wrote a book, said the Truck bomb in Oklahoma City, was impossible!!  to be what happened there, he needs to go to Lebanon and check out what Fertilizer can do...also his Headline CDC statistic, is from one town in Mass. where they had a large gathering...

 Florida on the other hand and Texas, where there are large numbers of Unvaccinated who believe, like this author above, that the Vaccine is a Hokus Pocus ride... 97% of ALL their new cases are UNVACCINATED...now that is a Fact !!! 

There are lots of Medical and University pages you can find information on, Rolling Stone, Free Press, People magazine...sensationalistic Journalist are where QAnon people go 🥺

The majority of Virology Scientist believe, this is a Race, to get people vaccinated...Why? so as to not allow the Virus to morph into something that could be not only more deadly, that current Vaccines could become obsolete...

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/08/florida-and-texas-lead-us-covid-19-surge

 

 

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/04/fit-and-healthy-man-42-from-southport-who-rejected-vaccine-dies-of-covid

A fitness fanatic, who didn't want to put the vaccine into his body, who thought that if he got Covid it would be a mild illness because he was young and fit. His only co-morbidity, according to his sister, was his belief in his own immortality.

Evolution by natural selection is a brutal process, but by it Covid may make the world a smarter place.

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On 8/3/2021 at 11:32 AM, TVR said:

The Flat Earthers agenda certainly doesn't lead anyone off a cliff man...heh... 

Yeah, no.  Not this time.  The Flat Earthers are getting people killed this time.

Maybe the analogy was too subtle...

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14 hours ago, softbootsurfer said:

seriously? a reporter wrote this headline, same guy wrote a book, said the Truck bomb in Oklahoma City, was impossible!!  to be what happened there, he needs to go to Lebanon and check out what Fertilizer can do...also his Headline CDC statistic, is from one town in Mass. where they had a large gathering...

 Florida on the other hand and Texas, where there are large numbers of Unvaccinated who believe, like this author above, that the Vaccine is a Hokus Pocus ride... 97% of ALL their new cases are UNVACCINATED...now that is a Fact !!! 

There are lots of Medical and University pages you can find information on, Rolling Stone, Free Press, People magazine...sensationalistic Journalist are where QAnon people go 🥺

The majority of Virology Scientist believe, this is a Race, to get people vaccinated...Why? so as to not allow the Virus to morph into something that could be not only more deadly, that current Vaccines could become obsolete...

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/08/florida-and-texas-lead-us-covid-19-surge

 

 

The second I saw the adds that were loading from the canadafreepress site, I just new that I had to make some popcorn.  This was going to be a wild ride!

 

Also about flat-earthers attacking the facts and not the person... That might be a personal observation, but it appears to be an over-generalization when the president of the flat earth society called scientists liars and "demented dope fiends".  (https://www.salon.com/2014/04/03/creationists_endure_rough_few_weeks_why_the_flat_earth_crowd_is_in_trouble/

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2 minutes ago, lowrider said:

Of all the statistics that will be analyzed post Covid 19 the one I'm most interested in is the IQ of those who died from Jan 2021 forward .

Nice subtle insult there (and an example of my above point of attacking someone presenting the data) but I am going to agree with one part of the above.

Statisticians will indeed look back at this time, not just from January 2021 on, but from  the very beginning of when this started. There is considerable data being suppressed right now, and we simply don't know the long term affects of either contraction and surviving the virus itself, or taking the vaccine and its long term affects. 

What we do know at this point in time is, society as it was, has been changed dramatically.

Make your own decisions on how you can take care of yourselves and time will tell as all truths come to light eventually. 

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Good grief. We know the effects of contracting the virus can include death and also lingering after effects. Long haul effects may be permanent in some cases.  mRNA vaccines have been under development for 10 years now.  Without them our medical facilities would be overwhelmed by delta patients and the death toll would be even worse. Skeptics like you are a health risk to all. 

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10 minutes ago, Neil Gendzwill said:

 Skeptics like you are a health risk to all. 

Having had it, are my antibodies and my now natural immunities a health risk to all? Does the vaccine provide more protection than immunity from a previous infection? Are my questions a risk to us all and is it a risk to all for scientists to ask questions as well?

This is my point on the attacks. I am labeled "a health risk to all" having given no advise on whether to vaccinate or not, having only provided data, and not even being in the same country. This is the point on why people disengage as who wants to have a conversation where you are attacked? 

This goes for this topic, but also when discussing gear in this channel. I made this point earlier using the flat earthers as my straw man. Some will point out data on products, whether good or bad, while others will take the moral superiority route and attack the presenter. This is the "why" so many disengage and so much data is missing on so many subjects. 

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Since I'm no longer in the baby making phase of life and looking only to prolong the inevitable if the choice is drink from the cup and live (That liquid being produced by some of the smartest people on earth. This stuff isn't Jones koolaid) I'll choose the cup rather than what is offered by the other members of the gene pool . Tried to buy Thiabendazole yesterday but non available who's hoarding that ? 

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There are these people at work that tend to irritate me the most.  They ask questions that purposely tend to portray any presented data in the worst possible light and then shrug and say ‘Hey, I’m no expert, I just thought this should be asked?’  

There is a not so fine line between playing devil’s advocate and just throwing turds in the punch bowl from a safe distance because you can.

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Try to think of the Vaccine as the Entry Door that prevents rain from coming into the house, not the Screen Door that lets the rain actually hit the Entry Door.  Your body is behind the Entry Door, your nose is the Screen Door.

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3 hours ago, TVR said:

Having had it, are my antibodies and my now natural immunities a health risk to all?

It’s not your immune status that’s a risk to people, it’s the FUD you are spreading.  You say we don’t know about long term side effects, but vaccines historically have had no long term side effects, the side effects appear in the short term, and furthermore mRNA vaccines such as Pfizer have been around and studied for a long time.  Source.

You maintain you are simply providing another data point but that’s about as innocent as Fox News and their “questions”.  Right now something like over 95% of the deaths from Covid are happening to unvaccinated people.  Why are there so many unvaccinated people?  Misinformation coming from the news media and over social media from people like you.

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