Lower binding angles = Assymetric power toeside vs. heelside turns?

[Freezer]

I've evolved over the last few years from high binding angles (65/65) to lower binding angles (55/47), which I generally like a lot more because it's more stable and better able to handle choppy/variable snow conditions.  A drawback, however, seems to be a differential in power applied in heelside vs toeside turns- specifically heelside turns seem more powerful while toeside turns seem less powerful with the lower binding angles.  With the higher angles I felt like I was applying pressure to the edge from the sides of my feet, and now with the lower angles it feels more like applying pressure with heels/toes, and on the toeside turn it's hard to angulate strongly to get a hard turn in.  Anybody else feel like this, and if so, have you done anything to compensate?  Video attached showing harder heelside vs. toeside turns.  

 

 

[lonbordin]

You commit early and aggressively to your heelsides... You are late and easing into your toesides. You aren't looking where you want to go on the toesides as well.

Good luck.

[SunSurfer]

One of the key tips Joerg Engli gives in his Pureboarding clinics, a style which uses relatively across board bindings especially the rear binding, is this -

Heelside: put more weight on your front heel.

Toeside: put more weight on your rear toes.

When I've tried this with binding angles like you are using I find it easy to get the toeside to bite and whip round the turn.

 

 

 

[dgCarve]

5 hours ago, Freezer said:

I've evolved over the last few years from high binding angles (65/65) to lower binding angles (55/47), which I generally like a lot more because it's more stable and better able to handle choppy/variable snow conditions.  A drawback, however, seems to be a differential in power applied in heelside vs toeside turns- specifically heelside turns seem more powerful while toeside turns seem less powerful with the lower binding angles.  With the higher angles I felt like I was applying pressure to the edge from the sides of my feet, and now with the lower angles it feels more like applying pressure with heels/toes, and on the toeside turn it's hard to angulate strongly to get a hard turn in.  Anybody else feel like this, and if so, have you done anything to compensate?  Video attached showing harder heelside vs. toeside turns.  

From my experience lower angles do not work well with forward directional stance. To make toe side turns more powerful, try to align your body with bindings (or maybe even a bit more towards "minus") and push knees down, more back knee. When you consistently will be touching the ground with your rear knee, it will be a time to start decreasing your rear heel lift / boot lean. This will make your toe carve even stronger. Your heel edge will not be an issue as if you know how to do a strong heel side carve, you will be able to do it with less lift / lean too.

It is important not to rotate body during turning/edge transition,  keep body position the same on toe and heel side. This speeds up edge transition considerably. Makes turns more powerful right from the edge transition.

P.S.2. On my boards I run angles from 30/45 (all mountain) to 52/55 (race/free carve) now. I do not miss 60+ angles at all. I see only gains in power/speed/stability. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by dgCarve

[dgCarve]

4 hours ago, lonbordin said:

You commit early and aggressively to your heelsides... You are late and easing into your toesides. You aren't looking where you want to go on the toesides as well.

Good luck.

+1

@Freezer This is the the hardest part. When done right you will have a feeling of "flight" and board will be always catching up. When you feel that you are on the board or following it - this is done wrong. I am working on improving that myself. On steep icy terrain it is just too scary for me yet...

[wulf]

Stay centered on the board. Initiate the turn with both feet from the bottom up w just a tad of nose-load that keeps you away from sitting on your backfoot.

Toes/Heels, Ankle, Knee, Hip. Upper Body is counter balancing to keep the CoG at the edge to maximize pressure. Frontside: Hip to the slope, Backside: Bend at the waist.

After initiating with both feet the load of feet/legs will change based on physics.

Rule of thumb (Pureboardings Joerg Egli advice):

Frontside: 2/3 of power on rear foot (toe, ankle, knee)

Backside: 2/3 of power on front foot (heels, ankle, knee)

And look ahead to where you want to go

 

Take a look how racers do it. Always balanced on the board. Driving from the bottom-up.

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by wulf
typo

[SunSurfer]

As others above have already hinted, there are quite different and distinct ways of carving a snowboard.

Side of the feet, forward facing stance.

Heel and toe, sideward facing stance most obvious on heelside.

Pureboarding style, a heel/toe variant.

Extreme carve, rotational style with sideways body more obvious on toeside.

The most effective technique for each is distinctly different for each.

All are accepted ways of riding a carving board. Different people prefer different styles. It helps to know which style you ride when seeking advice about how to improve. The same could be said for those giving advice.

Not a criticism of any of the advice given so far. More of a larger view observation.

I'd have picked Nevin Galmarini rather than Sigi as a more across the board, heel and toe, top level racer.

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by SunSurfer

[wulf]

@SunSurfer: you are right - it is indeed very individual. 

However I am a fan of starting with basics first, before specializing into different styles. That why I prefer the racers setup. Always balanced, high pressure on the edges, ready to ride in various terrain. All other styles do come later 

Edited February 23, 2020 by wulf
typo

[dgCarve]

3 minutes ago, SunSurfer said:

...

The most effective technique for each is distinctly different for each.

...

There was specific question about toe side turns....

Racing technique has most powerful toe side turns. I do not see how any "freecarve" style (CMC/EC/any custom made bomber style) can beat racing style on that particular aspect. Only PureBoarding can compare on toe side, I think, but has weaker heelside.

[hknz]

Assume we are talking about EC style right now, please try to put your left hand (i.e. front hand) onto the slope during toeside carve, as early as possible.

In fact, you are quite opposite to me. I always have very good toeside turn and bad heelside turn. I won't fail a toeside turn if I don't want to. I often need to make my toeside turn less strong in order to give some room/time for my heelside turn to improve.

[dhamann]

i'm pretty sure i'm stating the obvious for most, but i am also working on the same issues. self analyze. my lower back friggin kills from riding like this. over committing and diving into that front boot on the heels and rocking back and forth in transition (while maybe twisting too?), then not having the muscle/body power and/or energy to commit an equal amount of force to the toeside. your heels are killer though! dig those trenches. not sure what board you're on, but most boards have a variable sidecut radius from being tighter at the nose and larger at the tail. leaning heavy on the nose turns faster, while riding a bit back seat turns larger. something i read on this site elsewhere... use my skeleton to "stack" both bindings (heels) in a more balanced manner rather than load the front by muscle and joints. i like basic changes and not overthinking it. conserves energy for the toesides too. the results produce smoother, slower, larger turns, but the style and feel is garbage. see the problem is, i've been working on how to load the nose the past few years while learning how to ride vsr and alpine boards. i think it's a bad habit that i'm trying to correct, but i guess i now know how to do that. my body just can't take that kind of riding day after day like it used to. the style looks bland but it wins races. btw, my angles have stayed the same. 62/57 alpine, 36/15 softy. anyhow, i feel ya and just had some food for thought. a lot of good points above too.

Edited February 23, 2020 by dhamann

[Beckmann AG]

11 hours ago, Freezer said:

...while toeside turns seem less powerful with the lower binding angles.

"...Nay, it is; I know not "seems." --W.S.:H

Lowering the rear binding angle will magnify the leveraging inputs from your rear boot. The greater magnitude has to fit through a smaller aperture with respect to time, which means your timing has to be more precise.

As it it, you're late, and therefore have to cheat the remainder of the turn initiation with minor drift/skid. So the board can't 'lock in' as it does to the heel side.

In the short term, soften the flex on the rear boot, and come in earlier than you think possible with that knee/foot combination.