Input from the community for developing a Alpine Snowboard specific Zipfit liner.

[bigwavedave]

@hknzI think Bobby is talking about the black rubber on the plastic cuff of the Zip liner, not the spoiler on the MS shell.

@Bobby Buggs the black textured rubber stuff on the Zipfit liner cuff is for traction so there is no slip between it and the shell. The black stuff is paper thin, not sure what removing it would accomplish.  The thicker plastic under that black stuff should not be removed as the leather lower boot doesn't extend above that point.

Earlier in this same thread I posted pics where I did some surgery on my Zip liners to increase forward flex:

 

[pow4ever]

3 hours ago, slapos said:

Who is sharing my foot pics without proper credits ?

Why would you take out the spoiler? I personally like it but got chicken legs so...

proud tribe member of thunder calves; maybe he was born with it maybe it's Maybelline; or maybe it's the plutonium orb i been pondering...

where are my manner (i am such an uncultured swine sexy chicken leg belong to slapo

[hknz]

I see what he means now (I cant read his attached picture).

What bigwavedave suggested to increase flex of Zipfit is great, I will definitely try when there is a chance to ski again.

I find that I have another brand new spare Zipfit Grand-prix (or World-cup). I havent tried it on snow but carpet only. It is a bit firmer and tighter than my moderately-used Diva/Tour. However, the feeling could be different on snow.

 

Re: slapos,

Removing the spoiler feels better at that time. Otherwise I have to use the furthest buckle slot and have a hard time buckling them. I have normal calves.

In addition, the lean of the front foot can be more straight. I just felt better when I removed it. The original lean is a bit too much for extremecarving imo.

[slapos]

3 hours ago, hknz said:

Re: slapos,

Removing the spoiler feels better at that time. Otherwise I have to use the furthest buckle slot and have a hard time buckling them. I have normal calves.

In addition, the lean of the front foot can be more straight. I just felt better when I removed it. The original lean is a bit too much for extremecarving imo.

Right for extreme carving - thats important - I am more into race style carve, but I will try to remove the spoiler and see how it feels.

when I was using upz foam liner in 951, i had to move the buckle teeth on the cuff to make it samller.

 

with zipfit I had to move back to the original position - so I got some news to all the chicken legs out there :

GET ZIPFIT - it cures chicken legs....

[Bobby Buggs]

I will say Zipfit can zero out just about all your fit issues. I barely have to buckle my boots and rarely if ever need to mess with them during the day. In end all you really need is a solid heel hold, after that its just comfort and Zipfit is the best heel lock I have ridden in 22 seasons. 

[pow4ever]

After 7 months of zero drop/wide toe shoes.  My mangled feet finally started to look like feet shape again.
Now i understand what my podiatrist was talking/complain about.

I am slow.... but now i finally get it.  zipfit and hot gear bag.  guess there is no going back.

zipfit diva/tour liner.  very comfy

[Bobby Buggs]

Who ever said you were cheap 

[slapos]

12 hours ago, pow4ever said:

After 7 months of zero drop/wide toe shoes.  My mangled feet finally started to look like feet shape again.
Now i understand what my podiatrist was talking/complain about.

I am slow.... but now i finally get it.  zipfit and hot gear bag.  guess there is no going back.

zipfit diva/tour liner.  very comfy

you feet will be very pleased. Moulded liners everyday - i am in.

[pow4ever]

16 hours ago, Bobby Buggs said:

Who ever said you were cheap 

i am not just cheap but also poor.  I am el-CheapO and an idiot.
an adage - "a fool and his money are soon parted" population me. 
most ppl's quiver cost more than my car   mid 2000 Corolla with > 200k miles, stick with cranked window.
Prioritized.... but if this season don't get me back to where snowboard is "fun" again.  i just might hang it up for good at least take some break.

[Bobby Buggs]

The way my schedule is playing out Im only going to be up here 6 days a month through April and that only includes 1 Saturday. This might be the end. Look for a Coiler sale in the classified soon 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Bobby Buggs

[Carvin' Marvin]

I joined the club yesterday. Here is my experience.

I drove out to the Zipfit Shedquarters in Carbondale for a personal fitting to take the guesswork out. Chris and Jeff were both super helpful and genuinely interested in the mechanics and intricacies of hardbooting.  The whole ordeal maybe took 20 mins and was super easy. Chris had been doing some thinking on it and believes that the Gara liner is best for booting.  We threw a pair in my UPZ (Chris was happy to see a pair in person), they fit, cooked the whole set up a little and then buckled up the boots.

I have an easy foot/ difficult foot situation.  Right foot and ankle are considerably higher volume than the left due to past injury.  My easy foot instantly felt at home in the liner.  My difficult foot had some expected pressure points over the instep that have always been an issue.  Chris offered to remove some cork but he also thought if I just rode for a day it should sort itself out.

Went out at Vail today, 11" fresh snow, crowded, extremely variable conditions, Thirst 8RW, intecs.  After just one of Vail's famous cattracks I could tell where the cork had reallocated itself off of the instep pressure point from the rear boot being flexed.  At first I had the boots buckled too tight. Eventually I barely had my boots buckled and my heels were just locked into the boot no problem.  Couldn't even lift them if I tried.  The cuffs feel VERY nice with instant energy transmission.  I felt super connected to the board even when hopping around off camber moguls and chunder.  I am very excited for a good carving day in them.  

The bad: My toes got pretty cold. They have merino wool and thinsulate but the toe area lacks the thick cork that keeps the rest of the foot warm.  I was also wearing near non-existent compression socks on a cold day so take it how you will.  They are expensive.

Couldn't recommend them more especially if you have difficult or sensitive feet.  After riding Wednesday I could barely walk and after riding harder today I feel great still.  I expected a lot from $400+ liners and I have to say they are better than I thought they were going to be.  Believe the hype. Chris showed me a pair of his liners with 500 days on them and they hold up very well.

[pow4ever]

@Carvin' MarvinThank you for sharing your experience!  Did you try GFT or it's straight to GARA during fitting?
I have not try them on actual slope yet but finger/tie crossed.  I have some hot spots on my mess up foot and your experience gives me high hope that those will go away.

re cold toes.  highly recommend heated boot bag.  i try to put zipfit liner with/without first heat the boot/liner.  I will not be putting them on without heating them.  before(without heating) it was a whole lots of grunt/cursing.  with heated; drama free. easy peasy lemon squeezy.  Perhaps it's hard to warm up if started out cold.  start with warm boot hopefully will cure that.  There is always heated socks but those are big $$$.  just more gears/stuff to break/worry about...  i sometime do missed those simpler time.  one board; simple gear.

https://cozywinters.com/heated-boot-bag.html

[Carvin' Marvin]

@pow4ever He pondered the boots, pondered the feet, and decided the Gara is likely the answer.  It worked so we went with it.  After seeing the UPZs he does not believe the GFT would work well in those.  Unsure about the mountainslope boots.  They would probably be good for a very low volume situation or something.  My feet are pretty much middle of the road for the 27.5 UPZ shells.  We used the high volume Garas and I don't think I would want any less liner in my boot.

I probably shouldn't be so quick to judge the cold toes. The temps dropped hard when the weather came in and it was pretty windy.  They highly recommended the heated bootbag as well, but with a new Thirst on the way I've blown about 400% of this years winter equipment budget so I'll make due with putting them in the passenger floorboard of the car for now.

[Odd Job]

1 hour ago, Carvin' Marvin said:

@pow4ever He pondered the boots, pondered the feet, and decided the Gara is likely the answer.  It worked so we went with it.  After seeing the UPZs he does not believe the GFT would work well in those.  Unsure about the mountainslope boots.  They would probably be good for a very low volume situation or something.  My feet are pretty much middle of the road for the 27.5 UPZ shells.  We used the high volume Garas and I don't think I would want any less liner in my boot.

I probably shouldn't be so quick to judge the cold toes. The temps dropped hard when the weather came in and it was pretty windy.  They highly recommended the heated bootbag as well, but with a new Thirst on the way I've blown about 400% of this years winter equipment budget so I'll make due with putting them in the passenger floorboard of the car for now.

fwiw my toes got cold at the Basin today; I was wearing softboots which are usually always much warmer than hardboots (intuition liners for hardboots).

 

Do you like the zipfits better than intuition? The longevity is intriguing.

[bigwavedave]

The toes on my Zips are so thin and stretchy I was able to fit hand warmers in there last year when we had sub-zero temps. Worked great. 

[Carvin' Marvin]

@Odd Job  They feel completely different than intutions in a good way.  With intuitions I felt like I was reliant on the shell being clamped down to keep my feet locked in.  With the zipfits the liner does all that work and the shell doesn't need to be clamped with enough pressure to turn your feet to diamonds.  You're close enough to Carbondale you should go pay them a visit.  I'm going to Loveland tomorrow for a more carve oriented session to really put them through their paces.  Yesterday was a powder day but I was usually plagued by heel lift on pow days but NONE yesterday.

[pow4ever]

First day of the season so far so good.  condition is not optimal.

Zipfit Diva/tour liner seems to work well in Deeluxe track 700 shell.
It's tall enough; no heel lift and didn't have to buckle it super tight. 
Front foot; no problem as always.
Some pressure point hot spot on the back foot.  Which is likely a shell issue (need to get it punched out) but bearable.
I am cautiously optimistic that i found the proverbial park in "in the ball park"....

[Odd Job]

Are the lowest volume zipfits any warmer or as warm compared a completely molded/packed out intuition powerwrap?

I'm considering zipfit this season if I decide to ride hardboots for a decent amount of days again; I also know they are all tongue style liners. I pretty much need as much room as I can get for my foot and calves; otherwise there is no buckling in to be had.

The only draw is the promise of heel lockdown for 500+ days which would offset the cost for new liners every season.

[Carvin' Marvin]

Not as warm. Better in all regards except cost and warmth. Call up the guys in Carbondale and they will let you go fondle their wares. 

[Jarcode]

Did anyone end up trying the GFT in the .951s? I'm concerned about running into the same problem @Jack M experienced in his shells with the leather bunching up in the Corsa and World Cup models; plus I don't feel like the stiff construction is really needed in our case. I'm inclined to give the Gara LV (stealth) a shot since I'm unlikely to run into volume issues with that... narrow heels/ankles, low instep.

I'm also specifically interested in the stretchy, thin toebox due to my ridiculously wide forefoot. Maybe it's just the warmer weather here, but even the reports of "cold feet" seems better than the baking hot intuition liners in my T700s.

We have a shop that supposedly carries ZipFit liners up in Whistler, but they're waiting on an order that won't be in until next month... and I believe they're only getting the stiffer leather liners for their ski racing clients.

[Jarcode]

I lucked out and found a shop that is getting ZipFit GFT liners coming in this week, will go try them out in the .951 shells and report back.

[Jarcode]

Feedback on the ZipFit GFT liner (m27.5) in my .951 shells (RD130, size C), with my ~m28 foot:

• The GFT is a perfect for a low volume fit. Someone who is in the middle of their shell size might have to inject a lot of cork, but I would still recommend the GFT in the .951s anyways. I did take a look at the Freeride liner as well.
   
• The ankle articulation in the GFT for touring completely solves the problem @Jack M mentioned with "bunching" at the instep! There is indeed a "bellows" section made of neoprene in the siding that allows the liner to flex uninhibited inside of the shell without causing any pressure. This might have been unintentional, but @zipfit has made a great alpine snowboarding liner due to the similarities between the .951 shells and a touring boot.

And here's the liner flexed, comparing against the Corsa model Jack has issues with:

• As in all ZipFit liners, the forefoot is thin and stretchy. This is great for my freakishly wide feet, unlike the stock liner which crushed my foot without even wearing the shell.  Someone with a narrow foot may consider this to be a problem, though, as it might provide too much room and hinder the boot's performance.
   
• Because all other zipfit liners seem to have varying degrees of this hard siding that "bunches" when flexed, I feel that most people are better off going with the GFT in the .951 shells and just injecting cork as needed.
   
• The GFT actually feels softer than the stock liners when looking at how it influences forward/backwards flex.
   
• The liner is about the same height as the stock liner:

If it were a bit taller, it would probably be perfect for us.

• I do have one pressure point remaining that wasn't fully addressed with my extensive shell work: the inside "flap" of the shell around my instep on both feet:

I did get the shell molded and "peeled out" to try to avoid this part pressing into my instep, but the problem remains. I'll try moving around the cork and injecting some more to see if I can get it to alleviate the pressure. It also could be an issue with my foot pronating in my boot, I'm experimenting with different footbeds right now. Worse case scenario, I just grind some of the plastic off.

Hope this helps anyone shopping for new liners.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Jarcode

[Carvin' Marvin]

On 11/26/2022 at 7:06 PM, Jarcode said:

 Worse case scenario, I just grind some of the plastic off.

Hope this helps anyone shopping for new liners.

I ground both my shells where you circled there. Removed a fair amount of material and it solved the issue completely. 

[lafcadio]

Based on the extensive details posted by @Jarcode (thanks!) it sounds like the GFT may be one of the best Zipfit models for alpine snowboarders based on how it flexes.

I'm in the market for a liner replacement for my UPZ XC12s. I love how the XC12s flex and I'm absolutely not interested in a liner that will make the boot feel stiffer (so likely a wrap-style liner is out). I'm thinking about the Zipfit GFT or maybe one of the Intuition liners with a tongue. 

I realize this post was a while ago, but I'm curious about this comment from @Carvin' Marvin after visiting Zipfit back in December of 2021:

On 12/10/2021 at 7:32 PM, Carvin' Marvin said:

After seeing the UPZs he does not believe the GFT would work well in those. 

Did he indicate WHY he thought the GFT would not work well in the UPZ boots? Was this a comment about UPZ boots in general, or something specific to your foot/fit in the UPZ boots?