Jack M Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 My son is the exact opposite of me on snow - skier, loves the park, loves rails. It's getting expensive. Park skis are specifically marketed for use on rails. Go to any of their websites (ON3P, Armada, etc) and they glamorize rails and urban skiing in pictures and video. Their skis even come from the factory with the edges ROUNDED for easy sliding on rails. Of course, rails destroy skis, in less than a year. That is, the way they are currently made. Lookup their warranty info online - if you do rails, your skis are not warrantied. I know, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. But this doesn't sit right with me, where the skis are heavily marketed for this exact use. It would be like Cannondale saying if you take their mountain bikes off-road, you have no warranty. Right? I'm not a litigious person, but it seems like there is a court case here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt. Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 Starboard standup paddle board marketed the same way! Pictures of it being surfed, but warranty has disclaimers. It only broke twice. Live and learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishsurfer Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 "It would be like Cannondale saying if you take their mountain bikes off-road, you have no warranty. Right?" Most downhill race mountain bikes arent warrantied for racing.... though fortunately they seem to only ever break during non race day rides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.E Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 I just looked at ON3P. They warranty against defects in materials and workmanship, but not due to damage from boxes, rails, etc. Makes sense to me. They are saying they guarantee their work, but if you bust your skis sliding them down hard objects, that's not on them. Very standard in all sporting goods. Hell, Bruce at Coiler, Sean at Donek are the same. Man, if I stuffed the nose on a race board in a course and it broke- well, that's normal use but damage outside of of the board makers control. Don't be salty your kid is using stuff and wearing it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 23 minutes ago, Mr.E said: Don't be salty your kid is using stuff and wearing it out. Yeah, Ditto......Not the manufactures responsibility or fault the gear is getting rode hard and used/abused and failing. My 25 year old son rides Park Hard!.....but he's got a set of dedicated skis just for that purpose and another set for top to bottom skiing and another set for pow. Maybe that's why he get's 2+ years out of a set of Park skis. But gear breaks and gear that's being repeatedly thrown hard onto metal rails and boxes grinding is gonna break sooner, that's a fact! Not worth getting worked up over, well unless the skis are like fresh new. The Volkl Revolt is one of the less expensive but more durable Park skis my son hasn't been able to break....Yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_lupo Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 Where I live we have a bunch of ski swaps a couple of months or so before the start of the racing/competition season. There is always really well maintained stuff with plenty of life left for racing events, powder, and park. Typically skis that have seen one season of use are about 1/2 price or less, two season old skis are considerably less. Maybe picking up a couple sets of lightly used park skis at a big discount would be the way to go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhamann Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 Where’s he work? Hint hint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 11 hours ago, Mr.E said: I just looked at ON3P. They warranty against defects in materials and workmanship, but not due to damage from boxes, rails, etc. Makes sense to me. They are saying they guarantee their work, but if you bust your skis sliding them down hard objects, that's not on them. Very standard in all sporting goods. Hell, Bruce at Coiler, Sean at Donek are the same. Man, if I stuffed the nose on a race board in a course and it broke- well, that's normal use but damage outside of of the board makers control. Don't be salty your kid is using stuff and wearing it out. I understand, but the difference here is that the manufacturer endorses these activities with their marketing materials. Like if Honda voided your warranty for taking your motocross bike off-road. 1 hour ago, dhamann said: Where’s he work? Hint hint At a restaurant. I know, I would totally put this on him, and I would like to demand that he go halvsies on the next pair, but where his sister goes to CVA while we told him he could not, it's complicated. And the fact that I have 5 active snowboards doesn't help my case either. He has leverage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 It seems to me that it's not a problem. You break the skis, then someone buys you some more. It's better than old school, when stuff would last for years and go appallingly "out of fashion". These people have designed a product which is always fashionable and updates at zero cost to the user. A brilliant model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.E Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) Saying they are park skis and up for the task is different than saying all damage in an activity that is dynamic and unpredictable is covered under warranty. There is some personal accountability there. Skateboards are meant for street riding, but if you brake a deck casing a staircase no one is sending you a free one. We might not get to the same side of this, but it all seems very reasonable to me. My understanding is that Honda off-road bikes have a parts and labor warranty shorter than the on road, and are not eligible for the typical extended warranty periods. If you bend a frame on a trials bike I doubt you'll get a new one. Edited January 29, 2020 by Mr.E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 There's a dad who's a local MTN ops guy at my home resort. His large young adult was going through sets of park skis. He bought some Line Afterbangs for his kid a couple of seasons ago... He still rides them. Tough skis. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Mr.E said: If you bend a frame on a trials bike I doubt you'll get a new one. Agreed, but that is the result of rider error. Intended use of the bike will not bend the frame. Intended use of these skis will break them sooner or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.E Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 Yup, and you agree to that when you buy them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 Ehh... not sure about that. I didn't sign anything, and I was not directed to read any waiver. I think expecting a pair of skis to last a full season is reasonable. If not then that was the last pair of $700 ON3Ps I am ever buying. Price limit will be $250 going forward. I think they should make park skis better. Like maybe with a metal plate on the bottom of the skis under the binding area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powdahbonz Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 Email Jason Levinthal at J Skis in Burlington and see what his take is. If you're unfamiliar with J, he started LINE skis, sold Line to K2 and Full Tilt boots. Then acquired 4FRNT. J's has a Park ski that is consistently recognized- his warranty has the same disclaimer - Any problem resulting from impact, abuse, or neglect. This includes but is not limited to rail and rock damage, crossing of skis, standing skis on their tips on concrete, sliding, grinding or banging skis against objects that are NOT made of snow for example steel, wood, concrete, pavement etc. but perhaps produces a burlier product. ON3P doesn't strike me as the first manufacturer I'd reach for in that discipline. Great all-mountain and powder following but park..seems pricey as an option. Top 5 for 2020 has J's Allplay at #5 with Armada having 3 models in top 5. I think the J's are in $550 range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 4 hours ago, Jack M said: $700 ON3Ps There's the 1st problem Not the most durable skis out there imo 2nd problem - aren't you in tha business? You should be getting Pro deal or at least beginning of season Pro night deal!! Ain't no way I'd pay $700 retail for that ski. ...and How broke are they? Unless their snapped in half we'd fix it and make do for the rest of the season knowing their limitations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 19 hours ago, barryj said: Not the most durable skis out there imo What is your experience with them? They seem quite popular among the park regulars at our mtn. Edge is pulling out of one. Guess I'll cram it back in with some JB Weld. 22 hours ago, powdahbonz said: Top 5 for 2020 has J's Allplay at #5 with Armada having 3 models in top 5 He had a pair of J's that he outgrew. He had a pair of Armada Edollo's, Henrik Harlaut's pro model, they lasted less than a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Jack M said: What is your experience with them? None.......now not a fan of any ski with a bamboo core because we had a bamboo core ski 4? years ago and they barely made through 1 season after edge blew out and we put it back in twice ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, barryj said: None ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 On 1/29/2020 at 12:57 PM, Jack M said: Intended use of these skis will break them sooner or later. Intended use of my oxygen/ acetylene supply will empty the bottles and I have to buy more. My local Airgas distributor more or less guarantees the product will work as intended, but both parties assume (and rightly so) that it's a consumable. Granted, I'm usually producing something of value, and figure the cost into the outcome. Might not be obvious, or desirable, but the performance athlete is the only part of the scenario that shouldn't be considered disposable. Skis, boots, poles, and clothing etc., are all expendable, and will have varying lifespan depending on how they are applied to the job. Besides which, if he and others are consuming skis at a steady rate, isn't that supporting the manufacturers, isn't that advancing the sport, and isn't that worth the cost? ->Skis and rockets both serve only to launch and guide payload. By comparison, the skis are free. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted February 17, 2020 Report Share Posted February 17, 2020 On 1/27/2020 at 5:07 PM, Jack M said: My son is the exact opposite of me on snow - skier, loves the park, loves rails. It's getting expensive. Park skis are specifically marketed for use on rails. Go to any of their websites (ON3P, Armada, etc) and they glamorize rails and urban skiing in pictures and video. Their skis even come from the factory with the edges ROUNDED for easy sliding on rails. Of course, rails destroy skis, in less than a year. That is, the way they are currently made. Lookup their warranty info online - if you do rails, your skis are not warrantied. I know, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. But this doesn't sit right with me, where the skis are heavily marketed for this exact use. It would be like Cannondale saying if you take their mountain bikes off-road, you have no warranty. Right? I'm not a litigious person, but it seems like there is a court case here. suck it up jack your kid wrecks stuff what do you think will happen when he buys his own skis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted February 17, 2020 Report Share Posted February 17, 2020 You could but some epoxy and ptex and teach him a skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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