Sidewall repair suggestions

[wvrocks]

I took my old Prior 4wd out for the first day this season and ended up with most of the sidewall coming loose on the toeside.  The base and edge don't appear to have any significant damage but there is a small strip of core material stuck to the back of the sidewall.  Also, the heelside edge has a gap for a good portion of its length between the edge and sidewall wide enough to stick a credit card in.  Any suggestions on how to repair the damage?  Worth the hassle? 

 

 

[JRAZZ]

You could always try to epoxy it in place but honestly if it happened once it will happen again. You will be fighting this and the board and it will never ride properly again. Worse yet, if it happens at the wrong time you could be hurt.

The board is telling you it's time, might be a good idea to listen.

[Wolf]

I'm the sort that would try to repair just about anything, but it seems that even if you could get that section to adhere well with epoxy, the rest of the sidewall is probably also losing its adherence and likely to start coming loose too.  It does seem like a good excuse for a new (or new to you) board.

[lowrider]

Take the bindings off flex the hell out of the board .As long as the core and top sheet and base are still attached when flexed your safe to re-attach the sidewalls. Clean of as much old epoxy as possible from all surfaces (scrape, sand, repeat) .Heat accelerates curing time but also allows epoxy to penetrate all voids. You may want to attach everything and after a few hours when the epoxy starts to set go back and fill any voids with more epoxy. It's cosmetic not structural as long as the core is still attached to top sheet and base ! Have another board handy they don't last forever !

[wvrocks]

Thanks for the replies. I think I might take a shot at repair. Not able to buy a new deck at the moment. Maybe used but this is the 4th used all mountain board I’ve broken. Starting to get expensive and a bit frustrating. I’m not abusing them. At least I’ve spread the love around, one Donek, one Coiler and two Priors. I have a F2 slalom and a Dynastar 3800 as backups but they aren’t great everyday rides. 
 

Any epoxy recommendations?  Slow cure probably best?

[Wolf]

I had good success with Smooth-On MT-13 epoxy doing a top sheet repair.  Good adhesion and it hasn't cracked in the cold.  Plus it's white so it matches a sidewall well.  It's an industrial brand so unfortunately it's not cheap.  I agree with you - definitely go with a slow cure epoxy.  It's higher strength and more water resistant.

I was able to borrow this at work.  Maybe somebody else has experience with a less expensive consumer brand.

 

[JRAZZ]

1 hour ago, wvrocks said:

Any epoxy recommendations?  Slow cure probably best?

Probably.  At least a 20 minute cure. Look for an epoxy designed for bonding plastics and also consider a surface treatment.

Look for something that stays flexible and can handle low temp.

 

I have had good experience bonding plastics with Loctite Plastic Bonder. It seems especially good at handling impacts. YMMV. 

Stay away from finishing resins and professional epoxies as these can get very temperamental if you get the mixing proportions wrong. They can also get brittle especially in the cold. This also might not be the right use case for epoxies used in the construction of snowboards because they tend to be thinner and might struggle to fill gaps.

 

https://www.loctiteproducts.com/en/products/build/epoxies/loctite_plasticbonder.html

 

 

[Boarder_Ted]

West System G-Flex. I used it on a Nidecker Ultralight 5 years ago and it has been fine. I popped the sidewall out like yours and delaminated the topsheet as well. Clean it up with acetone, let it dry thoroughly, clamp it up and leave it for 24 hours. Tape off anything you don't want the epoxy to adhere to.

[javajive]

I had good results using Marine-Tex for blown sidewalls and punched up top sheet. I had to drill some small relief holes and clamp it back to shape. Although somewhat flexible it is nearly impossible to sand or file so let it set against a polyethylene strip which you can peel off for a smooth surface. 

 

[Deuxdiesel]

Drill lots of small holes through the sidewall in just into the core material and fill it with good epoxy (G-Flex)and clamp it inwards as well as between the topsheet and base.  You will know you have good penetration when the epoxy comes out of the holes.  This will give you a much better mechanical bond than just on the back out the sidewall material.  

[carlito]

I do a fair amount of repairs seeing as Kicking Horse has lots of teeth!  This is definitely in the "intermediate" as opposed to beginner repair category... Sounds like two delams/repairs....  The big one with the sidewall that is out, and the smaller one with the "credit card" thickness delamination. 

Couple notes on epoxies.  I tend to be a system three guy, they make an "equivalent" product to the west G-Flex stuff called Gel-magic.  it is really good for stuff like bonding in the sidewalls - especially if you have the ability to do some sort of elevated temperature cure (an electric blanket....).  The problem with those products is that they tend to be "thickened' so that they don't run out of the joints or can be used on vertical surfaces....  The core to face bond in the photo of the core without the sidewall in place shows a delamination there.  you need thin resin to get it into that space.  So, a bit of laminating resin is pretty sweet for that part of the repair. any of the big marine epoxy products will be fine.  just ensure to get the ratio right.

Basic approach:  Flex the shit outta the board.  see if it opens up anywhere:  especially where the top facing and core are bonded.  I would attack the small delam first.  put the board so that the delam is facing up.  Now, like painting, prep is everything.  apply masking tape to the topsheet and base, flush with the edge.  then, set up your clamps and clamping blocks.  I recommend using packing tape applied on chunks of 3/4 inch plywood, the nicer the finish on the wood the better, and the packing tape won't stick to the epoxy.  test clamp the whole assembly, making sure the wood goes well beyond the crack (a couple of inches, either end).  once you are happy with the fit of the clamping assembly, apply enough masking tape onto one side (top or bottom) of the board such that the tape can be folded over the sidewall and against the other surface.  This will help to keep the epoxy in the repair, and not jjust running all over your clamps, table, workbench etc. Jam an awl, finishing nails, or what works surprisingly well, a couple/few of drywall screws between the sidewall and the edge.  turn the drywall screws into the gap.  the gap will open up.  don't be shy.  its toast now, the biggest problem is that people are shy about getting the crack opened up.  once you have a pretty good gap ( 1.5 to 3 mm) you can introduce epoxy into the gap.  use a hair dryer/heat gun on low to warm up the board.  you should see some bubbles come farting out of the pool of epoxy between the sidewall and the base/edge facing.  The heat will thin the epoxy allowing better penetration.  Further, the heat will expand any air bubbles at the bottom of the repair and encourage them to come to the surface.  Wiggle and jiggle things a bit.  remove the screws.  epoxy will ooze out of the much smaller (now) gap.  Fold over the tape and clamp that bad boy up tight.  wait for however long the resin instructions say.

The sidewall repair is a little trickier.  It looks like the top facing is delaminated from the core in the middle of the image posted.  This is no big deal, and sort of expected.  Again Prep, prep, prep.  tape the top and bottom of the board.  Get clamp blocks that will span the repair zone, and enough clamps to get one on every couple of inches.  Sand up the sidewall piece with some 40 grit paper.  should be rough.  you can look into corona/flame treating if you want to go down the rabbit hole....  If you are concerned with contamination, (especially wax) you can do a good solvent wipe.  followed by a solvent wet sand.  followed by the coarse grit sand, while wearing gloves.  Once the surfaces are clean and sanded you have to test assemble the pieces for fit.  The sidewall should fit nicely, hopefully without catching/bulging/popping out of the hole.  Now some planning is required.  How will side pressure to the sidewall be applied?  this isn't trivial.  If you have access to a couple (at least) banding clamps use those!  They are weird looking c-clamp type thingys that have a third screw pushing into the side of the "C" to provide some side force.  You will need another piece of bendy wood to clamp onto the sidewall.  expect a fight when clamping time comes.  the bendy piece of wood wants to squirt off of the sidewall, glue drips, grrr.  Grrr.  you can "profile" the sidewall clampy bit to fit between the top and bottom clamp blocks (that are applied overhanging the sidewall) and then use the banding clamps to push that into the gap , thus holding the sidewall into its hole.  I prefer (when doing a nice job....) to do the following.  Screw  a bendy piece of wood (3/4X3/4 batten) to one clamping block such that it matches the sidecut radius of the board.  use about 5 pretty small screws.  Remember to pre-drill or shit will split.  I usually use this piece on the "base" side of the board.  other clamp block can be normal, for the top.  I then cover the surfaces that will touch epoxy with the packing tape.  Position the board so the bad edge is up again.  open up the crack in the bottom of the repair (core to facing delam) with an awl.  Fill with epoxy.  use the heat gun again.  I usually add a bonus step here, cutting out a piece of fiberglass cloth (about 4 oz/sq yard) about 1.5 inches wide as long as the gap, with fibers running at +/- 45 degrees.  If you don't have it, skip it!  Pour in a bit of epoxy, shove it around with a popsicle stick.  put the cloth into the gap (if you are using it).  once it is wet out, push in the sidewall.  Now.  I usually fold over the cloth ends and apply pieces of masking tape, under a little pressure/tension "over" the sidewall material.  basically, stick the tape to the topsheet, pull gently and go over the repaired/sidewall stuff, and stick it to the base side.  do a few of those - you are trying to tack the pieces into place while you assemble the clamp bits.  If you are using clamps and loose bendy sticks to hold the sidewall into place.  Good luck.  You will need it.  If you are using the bent stick/clamp block assembly then apply that with one clamp at each end, just tight enough to hold in place.  It should be pushing a little bit against the sidewall of the repair.  grab a quick-clamp (one of those clamps that slides then uses a trigger pull thingy to close it up) and apply it across the board so that you can reef the clamping block with the sidewall retention stick screwed to it against/into the board.  tighten up this clamp a bit.  Those first two clamps should be loose enough to allow the assembly to slip sideways.  tap with a rubber/soft mallet.  Tighten up clamps, and install the other clamps.  Wait recommended amount of time

Removing clamps and cleaning up.   The clamping jigs usually just need a little persuasion to come loose.  then comes the cleanup.  This basic approach leaves only minor epoxy overflows onto the topsheet.  The better you do at taping the better.  There will be significant epoxy flash on the sidewall.  I prefer a farriers file to clean off epoxy/flash.  those bad boys are really sharp and take lots of material of quickly.  They also handle hitting the steel of the edge quite nicely.  I file at 45 degrees to the topsheet of the board on the top until the topsheet is just showing, then clean up the edge surface of the sidewall at 90 degrees to the base until the edge shows.  HOPEFULLY the edge is where it is supposed to be!  How good a job you did with you clamping and positioning will show now!  I use a cabinet scraper lots at this stage, they clean up epoxy off the sidewalls nice, will shave the sidewall if it is proud, will take epoxy off the topsheet (careful!) and easily remove excess epoxy from the base. 

Well, beer is done, and foot is Iced!  Good luck.  I am putting a couple of videos together to show repair techniques.  Any interest?

 

 

[TimW]

Definitively seems repairable to me. The only problem is that if the delamination has been there for a while, the inner surfaces may be dirty and it may be difficult to get a good bond. Some additional tips:

 - if you can, get vacuum infusion epoxy. These have very low viscosity. This helps getting a good penetration and wetting of the delamination. Also you can inject it with a syringe deep into the delamination. Furthermore most have a long pot life (3+ hours) so you have plenty of time to get it right. To help penetration get a pumping action by opening and closing the delamination a bit a few times (choice of words is accidental).

- Unless the sidewall is still covered in epoxy and you did not sand/touch it: Make sure you flame treat the sidewall (or any plastic you want to bond)!!!!. This is essential for a good bond, more than roughening. And it is very easy to do. Just get a torch and quickly run it over the plastic a few times. Very short, plastic should not melt or burn or discolor (like <10 seconds to run the length of an entire sidewall. when I build a board I flame treat the sidewalls when they are already bonded to the wood core, so I 'treat' the wood adjacent to the sidewall as well. Time is so short it does not burn or discolor the wood)

- Postcure the repair (after the epoxy is fully hardened). Heat helps the strength and bond of epoxy a lot.  Heat guns (adjustable) are great for this. Last time I did a similar repair I used a PP 30mm pipe, cut it on one side along the length and pushed it over the side of the board. Then I had the heat gun blow through this tube to nicely heat the length of the repair. 70-90 degC air temp is good.Cure for a few hours.

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by TimW

[wvrocks]

Thanks all, I have West Systems G-Flex in hand and ordered some syringes for deeper injection.  Probably give the repair a shot this weekend. I've done some pretty large base patches and edge repair on a Coiler that have held up well.  I'll let you know how it turns out.

Appreciate the recommendations!

[ursle]

11 hours ago, wvrocks said:

Thanks all, I have West Systems G-Flex in hand and ordered some syringes for deeper injection.  Probably give the repair a shot this weekend. I've done some pretty large base patches and edge repair on a Coiler that have held up well.  I'll let you know how it turns out.

Appreciate the recommendations!

I recommend you get off that broken board that will now flex like a broken leg and get  something safer not labeled priorly. 

[RobertAlexander]

JB Weld,  Also JB Weld has  Metal Epoxy in a 2 part system,   it is a slightly larger quantity than the standard JB Weld little tubes.  I have used Both the standard JB and the metal epoxy JB,  both work well,  but IMO, the Metal Weld epoxy JB does one step better,  hint, work quickly.  very quickly.   JB weld metal epoxy =$13.00

[bobdea]

On 12/9/2019 at 9:30 PM, Boarder_Ted said:

West System G-Flex. I used it on a Nidecker Ultralight 5 years ago and it has been fine. I popped the sidewall out like yours and delaminated the topsheet as well. Clean it up with acetone, let it dry thoroughly, clamp it up and leave it for 24 hours. Tape off anything you don't want the epoxy to adhere to.

Yup, thus far it’s been treating me very well for a variety of projects