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Ancient Equipment in Alpine Snowboarding...


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Whats it matter? Most of you guys are ancient equipment anyways!

interesting topic ! My experience with old gear is biased by our Swoard story and the first model that is the extremecarver. The first designs with that width were output by Jacques by hand in 97

This was on the rack at Wachusett last night.  

Posted Images

 :1luvu: Love all my "Cutting Edge" :eplus2: rides......custom Coiler EC SS 177,  K168,  Swoard Dual II 168,  Moss PQ60 

Different rides for different results and different conditions.......

But....... have Just As Much Love :biggthump and Have Just As Much Fun Still On My "Vintage" 🏂2001 Noah Salasnek  (RIP 😥) Sims Descender 159

Whether your riding a 2x4 plank or a $$ Custom ride, if it puts a smile on your face it's definitely not holding back the sport or the fun factor!

Ride more, Think Less............

 

Edited by barryj
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"I almost would love to introduce a rule that if the board is over 10 years old and being sold in the classified section that we move it to a classified section called "Collectors". Any newbies that are looking at gear should know that the board has new tech or is ancient."

"At best they are denying a sale to a current manufacturer. They may also be influencing others with the misconception that new boards are not significantly better than old boards, and other misinformation." 

So... forget the ‘separate but equal’ classifieds.

Now is a good time to demonstrate the courage of your convictions, and simply ban older boards entirely from the commerce section. Erase their unwelcome influence from the sport and clear a path for the next generation of alpine riders.

The ‘cheapskates’ and divergent may object, but there’s no need for a horde of tatty refuse to hinder the march of evolution, meanwhile sweeping bread from the tables of Coiler, Donek, and other fine  builders.

If unqualified equipment is weakening the sport, then progressive elimination is a fine solution to the problem of dilution.

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1 hour ago, Beckmann AG said:

So... forget the ‘separate but equal’ classifieds.

Now is a good time to demonstrate the courage of your convictions, and simply ban older boards entirely from the commerce section. Erase their unwelcome influence from the sport and clear a path for the next generation of alpine riders.

The ‘cheapskates’ and divergent may object, but there’s no need for a horde of tatty refuse to hinder the march of evolution, meanwhile sweeping bread from the tables of Coiler, Donek, and other fine  builders.

If unqualified equipment is weakening the sport, then progressive elimination is a fine solution to the problem of dilution.

New carvers shopping for used gear need to know what they are looking at.  There have been people here and on other social media channels selling very old gear for prices 3x or more than fair value.  Or even gear that is beyond service life or dangerous.  People who know are in no danger of falling for that, but people who don't know can at least be tipped off here that they are in the vintage for sale section.  And on the bright side, a newbie on a budget who doesn't want to spend more than say $150 on a board now has a place where inexpensive gear will be concentrated and brought to the front.

This thread has drifted massively.  Nobody is trying to say that old gear is useless and cannot be enjoyed or even ripped, like you do.  @trailertrash's point as I took it was that people who could easily justify buying new gear but won't are a drag on the progression of the sport.  I haven't seen this point adequately refuted yet, IMO. If you can't justify new gear, then rock what you got and shop savvy, it's cool.

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  The ‘cheapskates’ and divergent may object, but there’s no need for a horde of tatty refuse to hinder the march of evolution, meanwhile sweeping bread from the tables of Coiler, Donek, and other fine  builders.

If unqualified equipment is weakening the sport, then progressive elimination is a fine solution to the problem of dilution.

 

With the above in mind, I would wonder if we shouldn't set a minimum investment to allow new acolytes into the sport. (Sarcasm).

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Here's a request that I had to equip some of those cheapskates:

 

Hey Greg do you have any bindings available for the amp 4 looking for a board for kids to try I teach skiing and snowboarding at Jackson and have a few students who can really ride and were interested in hardboots last year hoping to give them an opportunity to try.

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6 hours ago, bumpyride said:

With the above in mind, I would wonder if we shouldn't set a minimum investment to allow new acolytes into the sport. (Sarcasm)

While some are taking it that way, the intention of splitting the classifieds is this:

8 hours ago, Jack M said:

New carvers shopping for used gear need to know what they are looking at.

If you look in the classified ads, you'll see some laughable prices for old stuff. Completely serviceable stuff, but not worth the asking price. 

I've been a pretty vocal proponent of getting something cheap to try the sport, and still believe that it's better to get someone on a board they can afford than to have them sitting on the sidelines while saving up for some multi-thousand-dollar setup. Splitting the classifieds doesn't change that. 

TT's original post? Meh, what he's complaining about doesn't really bother me. Everyone has their own priorities and tastes. It'd be pretty boring if we all had to conform to the same standard. 

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While I have no problem with listing older gear  as Vintage, I do have a problem with characterizing people as:

( The ‘cheapskates’ and divergent may object, )

The only thing that keeps many industries in business is "UPGRADES".  Once a person has a taste of a particular passion, they are often times the driving force for manufacturers to continually improve their products, as well as the future base for those products.  In those industries you don't insult your customer and risk alienating them.  They nurture the customer and open up the possibilities of improvements, and hence new business.

Sometimes a product is as close to perfect as a person could want, or that person has adapted to that product so well that any small change becomes a disrupt-er.  Those people are perfectly happy with the technology that suits them the best.

BTW flip phones are making a comeback. 

 

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Ancient gear is good.

I was riding and Hot Spot 162 for years.

I put a metal JJA under my feet and it was my own revelation.

You can have as much fun on old gear. We are not pros . Who cares at that point.

In 1988 a saw my instructor ripping that amazing line on a Burton Safari. 

Still gets to me 30+ years later.

 

 Embrace it but.... I guess find your own path!!!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Poloturbo
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This was shot last year. boots are from Nov 1991 (28 years old) Nordic TR-9, Bindings are Old F2 titanium Jan 2000 (19 year old) , Board is a Sept 1993 Madd 170 (26 years old) , rider is from July 1963 (55 years old at the time of the photo).

Sure it would have ridden nicer with Cateks, but heck you adapt to a lesser binding  when you can't find toe clips to switch over your step ins. 

I think some older gear is quasi- dangerous. Like a Burton Stat ridden by anyone over 160lbs with modern boots and bindings. I remember going over the handlebars of a Burton Stat many times when swapping for demos.

Photographer Ginger Demke. Not bad as we only shot 5 passes to get these shots.

IMG_1798 2.png

 

The shot below is on the same slope, a 10 mph less . 32 Binary Boa boots 2018, 2018 Jones 156cm hovercraft , Union FC carbon bindings 2015, and the same 55 year old    - without his Helmet being an idiot. Now I ride with my Troy Lee D3. BTW a Troy Lee D4 (might have a better lower sightline, and more ventilation in the front)  is coming out soon...... DEFINITELY RIDE WITH CURRENT HELMETS that can meet D.O.T. specs. Vintage helmets (older than 5 years) are a BAD IDEA.

 

IMG_2104 2.png

 

New Troy Lee D3 carbon helmet... gives me a bit more confidence (see deeper trench more committed turn)  . BTW Soft boot boards are NO substitute for carving set ups with hard boots on hard snow. You hit the limit of the gear a lot quicker with squishy gear. 

And...when you hit that limit... either the gear fails, or joints/tendons/liagments fail.

So regardless of the YEAR of the gear, more important is how soon you can find yourself at that limit in lesser gear and unpleasantly surprised with only a split second to readjust.

IMG_2490.png

Edited by John Gilmour
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  • 1 month later...
On 11/20/2019 at 9:53 PM, Beckmann AG said:

If unqualified equipment is weakening the sport, then progressive elimination is a fine solution to the problem of dilution.

Like People.... whaaaaaa...  wink...wcytaj....

Edited by Shred Gruumer
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In general:

Soft snow out west, cambered glass boards rule. You don't even have to sharpen your edges!

Out east on hard groom and ice, no question, new tech boards make riding more fun.

The mid-west is becoming more & more like the east coast.

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8 hours ago, Jack M said:

Those are pictures of brand new gear. 

yes, and I just Love these Pics, I believe they show Carving, that anyone can aspire to, even more with the modern tech available

but these shots are timeless...

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16 minutes ago, softbootsurfer said:

yes, and I just Love these Pics, I believe they show Carving, that anyone can aspire to, even more with the modern tech available

but these shots are timeless...

Agreed.

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On 11/21/2019 at 10:46 PM, FrankNBeans said:

The few Volkl Renn Tiger listed in the for sale a-while back would fit in the 'vintage for sale' category. But wait, the 3D sidecut was variable and the were made with titanal?

...planned obsolescence...

I have one of these with Bomber B1's on it, and it does not need anything to be fantastic, other than a younger, more fit rider.  

IMG_2146.jpg.e5031f58912ed1615e27ee844e0da474.jpg

There are some limits to ancient equipment though.... 

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Yep, I’m definitely one of those dudes that rocks the ancient gear. I still ride my Santa Cruz Sigma 158 Asym with Emery bindings and Raichle SNOWboarder hardboots from the late 80’s....😂 doesn’t stop me from laying it out in the turns and getting down like four flat tires! That said,  I would really love to try the new gear! I can’t imagine the difference! The insoles in my shells have literally turned to dust and the plastic tongues have crumbled to pieces. (I replaced them with rigged up shin guards)😂  I live in Texas now and don’t get to go very often. When I do, it already costs so much, I can’t really justify spending $2000 on a new set up. I will probably get some newer stuff used. I just found this group, so don’t hate on me too bad... I have also just discovered Montucky! That is going at the top of my bucket list. Can’t wait! 

ED269232-76D3-49C8-96F7-8BB20DECDDE0.jpeg

AD6A60A4-08C2-4E27-89B6-60CA7DDB3653.jpeg

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Well @trailertrash doesn't have to mount an argument or change his mind... The defense seems hell bent on proving his case. :smashfrea

$2000.00 for new gear. Get. The. F. Out.

In the last couple of weeks we've seen:

Kesslers go for $300

Boots go for <$300

And bindings for <$200

That's $800 or less! for a setup that leaves all the equipment in all these rose tinted photos in the dust. 

Mahalo

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Is that for new gear? Sweet! I’ve seen new boards go for $700- $1200 add $200-$300 for bindings and $400-$500 for boots. Am I wrong? But, yeah I’m definitely in the market for some better gear. Definitely don’t mind buying used or older gear. I’m so far out of the loop now I don’t even know what to look for. Hell, I don’t recognize hardly any of the brands.  I just know if I’m going to spend that much, it better be a good fit.  I mean up until a couple of days ago I didn’t even know what a power plate was. Ever since leaving Europe, in ‘94  I have rarely even seen a hardbooter.here in the US. I thought there was only softboots here, that’s all you see. I have never even seen harboots and carving boards for sale anywhere here. I always thought it was weird.  Lol 😂 anyway, I’m really stoked I found this group. Hopefully it will help me get properly equipped. I really need to demo some of the new stuff. Something like Montucky  would be perfect. 

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