Phantoms on a solid board

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Does anyone have Phantom’s Slipper HD boot? I’ve often wondered if it might be a softboot carver replacement. 

[lonbordin]

14 hours ago, ShortcutToMoncton said:

Does anyone have Phantom’s Slipper HD boot? I’ve often wondered if it might be a softboot carver replacement. 

I've modified my early Backlands (orange/blue) to be very similar to the Phantom.  I bought the Phantom spring kit.  I've actually tried the Phantoms... there's a shop in Silverthorne that used to rent them.  

The Backlands can be setup to be very soft.  Softer than Driver X/ K2 Thraxis out of the box.  

[lordmetroland]

3 hours ago, lonbordin said:

The Backlands can be setup to be very soft.  Softer than Driver X/ K2 Thraxis out of the box.  

I know you got the big, ol’ landmashers like me. Have you had to increase your binding angles to compensate for the Backlands increased sole length over, say, UPZs?

[lonbordin]

19 hours ago, lordmetroland said:

I know you got the big, ol’ landmashers like me. Have you had to increase your binding angles to compensate for the Backlands increased sole length over, say, UPZs?

The 29/29.5 Backland shell has a BSL of 318mm and the UPZ shell 8.5/9/9.5 has a BSL 291/312mm
The larger UPZ number is from the addition of a SKI /DIN toe pieces.  That said the difference is less than one imagines.  I don't actually have a pair of softies to compare BSL at this time.

I can run a fuego 55/50 on a 23.5 wide 9-12 vsr board.

On a 26 wide BXFR I can run fuego 35/30.

In this photo I've pressed both to the trim so you can see the difference yourself.  Since you live in an area that has large ski retail shops I'd encourage you to put your mitts on a pair of Atomic Backlands.  Backlands can be easily converted to Phantomesque setup.

Edited December 23, 2022 by lonbordin
They are UNBELIEVABLY light...

[ShortcutToMoncton]

On 12/22/2022 at 10:20 AM, lonbordin said:

I've modified my early Backlands (orange/blue) to be very similar to the Phantom.  I bought the Phantom spring kit.  I've actually tried the Phantoms... there's a shop in Silverthorne that used to rent them.  

The Backlands can be setup to be very soft.  Softer than Driver X/ K2 Thraxis out of the box.  

Yeah, I’ve heard that…my question for the Phantoms was, can they be set up as stiff or stiffer than Thraxis?  

[Xargo]

I broke two backland carbons last season. The setup rode great but would be a tad expensive to buy around 4 set of boots each season.

So now I'm trying this:

I rode that setup once without any modifications in walk mode. Felt even better than backlands last season so I'm going to add DGSS springs for the next session. Boot are Hawx Ultra XTD 95 W. I'm 182cm 82kg male but I figured women's model softer flex would suit snowboarding better and the first test session would seem to agree. There's way less ankle movement with these compared to backlands. Fuego gives about the same angles when compared to Swoard EC12 boots. Both are size 27 mondo.

Btw. those are F2 Carbon bindings. I've been riding those for around 10 sessions and no problems. Ofc can't recommend those without disclaimers for obvious reasons. That said, people have broken F2 bails anyways so I figured if baseplate breaks, that would probably result in easier to manage situation when it happens compared to bail breaking.

[b0ardski]

23 minutes ago, Xargo said:

broke two backland carbons last season. The setup rode great but would be a tad expensive to buy around 4 set of boots each season.

I assume they broke in the same manner,? guessing at the back foot heel ledge?

just bought a pair so I'm curious.

[Xargo]

58 minutes ago, b0ardski said:

I assume they broke in the same manner,? guessing at the back foot heel ledge?

Both broke in the same manner but not at the heel area. Here are two photos of the first cracked shell:

As you can see, the boa support brace is the problem. I would assume pre-boa boots might not have this problem. This was 2020-2021 season pair and I got a 2021-2022 pair from warranty which has kind of reinforcements in that area so I thought maybe they had solved that problem but they broke exactly the same way. I'm goofy so this is a back leg boot.

[b0ardski]

Looks like the rockered sole created a leverage point at that spot. a bit of wedge on the binding's toe plate would alleviate that stress point

I will do that for the used backlands I bought as a precaution.

[Xargo]

20 minutes ago, b0ardski said:

Looks like the rockered sole created a leverage point at that spot. a bit of wedge on the binding's toe plate would alleviate that stress point

That might somewhat affect how it broke but it was quite clear after the crack had happened that it's the lateral force of leaning the back leg towards the front leg that causes a stretch where the crack happened. The boa support brace also helps that force to develop a clean crack line. When I tucked my back leg knee towards the front leg (engaging the cuff) after the crack had happened, the crack opened clearly. Also when I broke the second pair, I got it on (360) video and it was a heel side turn when it happened and there wasn't even that much force in that turn.

So while rockered sole might have some effect, I'm pretty sure it's the lateral force when engaging the cuff that causes the shell to crack like that. Which also means that it shouldn't be a big problem with alpine angles. I like to ride with relaxed angles which is a problem for this kind of damage. Here's an example of a pose that stresses the boot like I described (these EC12 boots seem to be able to handle it):

Now it's interesting to see if Hawx Ultra XTDs can handle this kind of riding. First session impressions were great. I do realize that tucking the back leg knee like that it's not the greatest idea to prevent knee injuries and I'm also working to improve my technique by not doing that.

[Xargo]

Just for reference, this is the setup where the second pair broke:

*edit* Also, I'm not the only one:

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Xargo

[lonbordin]

23 hours ago, ShortcutToMoncton said:

Yeah, I’ve heard that…my question for the Phantoms was, can they be set up as stiff or stiffer than Thraxis?  

Yes. They can be stiffer or as stiff as Thraxis. Especially half a season old Thraxis. 

Edited December 25, 2022 by lonbordin

[nextcarve]

On 12/24/2022 at 12:39 PM, Xargo said:

Btw. those are F2 Carbon bindings. I've been riding those for around 10 sessions and no problems. Ofc can't recommend those without disclaimers for obvious reasons. That said, people have broken F2 bails anyways so I figured if baseplate breaks, that would probably result in easier to manage situation when it happens compared to bail breaking.

As an alternative to your F2's you may consider SG Performance Bindings. When I saw them first, I thought they where just some rebranded F2 with a different base plate. But no they are an all new construction, fixing the shortcomings of the F2 bindings, notably the weakness of the t-nuts when using canting/lift and stronger bails.
 

... and they offer a heel bail option with a lower profile (NW) for special race boots like Northwave Point, Mountain Slope and for Touring Skiboots.

Edited December 25, 2022 by nextcarve

[philw]

I'd previously discounted the SG bindings as they were not step in... but now I'm on Backlands anyway, that's no longer an issue. They're about twice the price of the F2, mind. However, toys are toys.... I can't find their weight though: anyone know how their weight compares to the F2 equivalent?

[Cthulhufish]

I also thought the SGs were the same as F2s. Sounds like important the differences just might be the hardware (spherical washers and two heel bail options), but they're important differences.

Who are SG's retailers in the US?

[nextcarve]

Don't know the weight of them, because I don't own them (yet).

When I talked to the designer of the SG binding at our Moon & Carve event last year, he showed the details in person and you could see the better construction and materials they used. Noticeable difference is also, the sleds on the back and toe side for the adjustment to the boot sole length.

[lamby]

On 12/21/2022 at 6:44 AM, b0ardski said:

have you checked out Plum split binding? French I think.

https://www.fixation-plum.com/en/bindings/9772-sok.html

Any idea what binding angles are achievable with the Plum split bindings?

[Xargo]

Hawx Ultra XTD update. I modded the boots with DGSS springs and loving the setup. Thanks @DRUPI! Here's some footage from this morning with Nidecker Tracer:

Heel edge of that board doesn't really suit this kinda of riding though. I was thinking about riding pow today but these two steep groomer parts were so much fun that I just ended up trenching them.

[lamby]

On 1/17/2023 at 10:48 AM, Xargo said:

I modded the boots with DGSS springs and loving the setup.

Awesome stuff Xargo! Would love to see a couple pictures of your Hawx with DGSS springs. I'm loving how light weight my Hawx are.

[Xargo]

13 hours ago, lamby said:

Awesome stuff Xargo! Would love to see a couple pictures of your Hawx with DGSS springs. I'm loving how light weight my Hawx are.

Here you go:

I've been riding these for 8 sessions now I think and this is the most versatile snowboarding boot I've ever used. As you can see I replaced the stock liner with a Palau overlap liner.

[b0ardski]

I got a set of DGSS springs with a pair of backlands looks the same. Selling cheap if anybody wants them. I'll be using phantom levers for the walk mode. 

[SteveandT]

So I’ve been trying the phantom system the past couple years. Full disclosure, I patrol on them, and I’m a big dude ( 6’, 250lbs). I tried dalbello quantum free 130s. They lasted about 2 weeks, then had to warranty them because the ankle pivot rivets pulled through and the plastic bushing disintegrated. Also, I broke 2 link levers, no crashes, they just snapped at the threads on the rod riding groomers. Went to 4 buckle touring boots, seems to be the thing. As far as the plates wearing out from the binding attachment pins, just order some spares.

[snowsurfer62]

On 12/29/2022 at 2:14 AM, lamby said:

Any idea what binding angles are achievable with the Plum split bindings?

The Plum allow 30° as well, and they are a bit heavier than Phantom and Spark. I am waiting for a very light weight plate binding, close to the board with angles at least up to 40° for the front foot. And/or for a light Boot with tec system and shorter sole length, which gives more space for wide feet like mine. I like to use my Pogo approach skis with Spark Tech toes and modified Backlands, a super light combo on my feet.

 

On 12/29/2022 at 2:14 AM, lamby said:

Any idea what binding angles are achievable with the Plum split bindings?

 

[lamby]

On 12/21/2022 at 6:04 PM, ShortcutToMoncton said:

Does anyone have Phantom’s Slipper HD boot? I’ve often wondered if it might be a softboot carver replacement. 

I use hardboots for all my riding, so I'm rather biased towards them.

When I was shopping for split board boots I tried on Atomic Backlands at a local shop, to see if the Phantom Slippers (Phantom's modified Atomic Backlands) might be a useful option for me. I found the Atomic Backlands to be quite soft, compared to the hard boots I normally ride with at our local resort (Deeluxe T700 with blue BTS). The Backlands or Slippers might be just the ticket for someone looking for a softer hard boot option.

I wanted to go for something stiffer for my split set up.  I ended up purchasing Atomic Hawx 130 UltraHDX alpine touring boots, then modified them with Phantom springs (medium stiffness). These have worked great.

Figured I would see how they work on groomed runs at the resort, on a regular board (non-split). (Disclaimer - We only have one mellow run open here so far, and I'm not an aggressive carver, so not much of a test I guess, but my impressions none the less...)

Today, I went up for five runs using my tried and true Deeluxe Track 700 boots on Lib Tech Orca 153. Then I adjusted my bindings (F2 Carve RS) to accommodate the longer length of the Hawx boots, changed into Hawx boots and went up for several more runs on Orca.

I liked the Hawx on a regular board. They are comfortable and quite forgiving and flexible. I think I prefer the T 700s for resort riding, but the Hawx worked well. I think the reason I am leaning toward the 700s for resort riding is that I'm very used to them. They seem stiffer than the Hawx, and I like that responsiveness. I'd probably be loving everything about the Hawx after a day and a half of on-piste resort riding with them.

Seems everytime I have purchased new boots there has been a period of time when things just feel a little different, maybe things even feel worse than different. Things have sometimes felt strange. What have I done, going and purchasing these torture devices that have regressed my snowboarding ability!!! Then, with some patience, maybe some adjustments, things start to come together. It may take some adjusting and toying with things, but soon enough, they all end up feeling like slippers. (Your local boot fitter is your friend)

BTW, I got a kick out of the reaction I got from a new snowboarding friend on the lift today. "What a weird set-up," he said, as he looked over my gear as we got on the chair. Perhaps its not everyday you see a grey beard in ski boots riding a banana boat  

[tpalka]

On 12/28/2022 at 6:14 PM, lamby said:

Any idea what binding angles are achievable with the Plum split bindings?

Like snowsurfer62 wrote, 30-deg is the max angle.  I use the Plum SOKs and Phantom Slipper HDs on my splitboard setup, and love it.  It's so light and fast. 

Yesterday was the first time I mounted the kit on a solid board (Plum sells a disk that fits 4x4 insert pattern).  I wished I could get 45-deg on front foot... and my rear foot angle was too low so I kept washing out a bit on heelside turns.  I'll play with it next time I go up to the resort.

Not to highjack the thread, but has anyone tried to ride a splitboard like a monoboard?  The bindings and HBs are narrow enough that I think it'd work.  Could be fun on a powder day 

Tom.