Which style do you prefer

[NateW]

Facing the nose, crouched a bit, both hands in-front-of my front knee. As little upper body rotation or movement as possible, just facing the nose and steering by leaning, and going for the most inclination I can handle. Not the fastest or the extreme-est or edge-est, but so far it's the funnest thing I've found.

I cheat a lot by dragging my hands and stuff, but I'm working on minimizing that.

[D-Sub]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill

Layback is back hand on the wave/coping. I can't see holding an edge in that position.

then a bert slide was front hand? cant remember!

[JohnnyH]

I have read this thread for some time now...I have surfed my whole life(48 yrs)...Doug Haut got me into carving(no explination necessary)...I have surfed for Doug for a long time...I have carved for about 8 years...less if you count the fractured tibial plateau...lateral meniskus removal etc. trying to teach my step son Chris Ward how to carve(WTC qualified!!!)...style is...Joel Tudor...Kelly Slayter...Nat Young...You...Me...anyone that makes difficult look easy...commonplace...natural...smooth...I don't know if there are the equivalent of watermen in carving(gotta be)but, you absolutely know it when you see it...Sewer peak lefts today...6ft. and round...me...longboard, and deep as hell!!!

Just one old(?) guys opinion.

Love...Johnny

[Bordy]

We spent a lot of time at the WTC talking about the things that have stunted the growth of hardbooting over the last few years.

The notion that alpine snow boarding has a right and wrong way is a severe blow to everyone.

Any company, manufacture or rider that pitches a right or wrong way that still results in a carved turn, probably does not posses the true experience necessary to say anything at all.

The understanding of the end result is perhaps the true goal of every rider.

The smooth carved turn is the goal and any means necessary to reach the goal are sweet!!

I ride so much different gear and it all takes different input to ride, I like to think those inputs are all little bits of character that each board requires to work well but the facts are the same they all have 2 edges and the side cut needed to rail. What it takes to make me go right and left regardless of style is ok by me.

Fin said one of the best things I have ever heard a manufacture say at the WTC this week and I'll try my best to get the Quote right.

"I am not sure if it should be softer or stiffer (referring to some test gear he had made that I was riding) but instead of telling you what I think should work, I would rather give you the option of all ranges and let you(the consumer) decide what works for you"

Fin Doyle.

In the world of softbooting there is a board boot binding combo for just about every person riding every style out there, now with carving on the rise again us as consumers are beginning to receive some of the same benefits we have always hoped for. More places to buy gear are popping up on the internet. More manufactures are making different gear and more web sites are telling you how to ride it.

This gives you as the alpine enthusiast the opportunity to help the sport grow by feeling the stoke and spreading the love, or you can act like a social moron and shun or discount any thing you don’t personally believe or fully understand, and continue to watch the sport stay on a unidirectional non developing path. It is after all based on what we want to pay for.

Ideas like, this style is the best and I know of no rider who can perform it and chooses not to… only show the growth needed in the sport. This individual clearly needs to meet more people that carve well since a good carves style is based on there own personal back ground not solely on a web sites step by step instructions.

The benefit of using the internet to improve carving on a whole is unmatched, but to take any printed text or images as the sole style is some thing totally different. And is with out a doubt one more nail in the coffin of our sport!

The sport needs to diversify to grow it is perhaps the best chance we have of gaining main stream approval and interest. Please do not help contribute to the reduction of possible growth by trying to conclude what style and gear is the “norm” because it seems normal to you. Remember you may by the abnormal person!

Please allow the sport to grow don’t disrupt the flow. We are all trying! Please help!!!!

[Guest Mark Jeangerard]

Originally posted by D-Sub

I honestly think it would throw you out of the carve, into a slide

do you mean like a bert? rear hand down frontside? Ive done them SLIDING, but never tried it carving!

Yep. Threw me out of the carve. But the kid I was riding with, his second day ever on hard boots, first day on anything but freestyle boards, and first run on my 72FP, after seeing what I was trying, laid one out, looking back up hill, and turned back around and stood up. It was brief, but he carved it.

Little punk ass mofo...

I could swat him.

Mark

[wavechaser]

Originally posted by wavechaser

...Bang some bumps, then whip into the trees, pop back out and layback on a high bank...

Originally posted by Mark Jeangerard

Yep. Threw me out of the carve. But the kid I was riding with, his second day ever on hard boots, first day on anything but freestyle boards, and first run on my 72FP, after seeing what I was trying, laid one out, looking back up hill, and turned back around and stood up. It was brief, but he carved it.

Little punk ass mofo...

I could swat him.

Mark

I LOVE IT...look what I started...like Bordy said..."The notion that alpine snow boarding has a right and wrong way is a severe blow to everyone."

That's what I was trying to get across in my post on March 7th, 2005 at 06:01 PM (partially quoted above).

When Mark said "Think it'll work? Anyone seen one?" I think he was kind of guessing it wouldn't work. And now...some PAMF has actually done it right in front of him. I've done it too, because I NEVER keep a closed mind when it comes to possibilities of style and new moves. Through many years of skateboarding, surfing, skiing (...yes 20 years of it before the last 17 years on a board...), snowboarding, windsurfing, mountain biking and kayaking (I'm NOT a fun hog or anything), I've seen the impossible done over and over again. It's all in your mind like any kind of artwork is, and everyone has their own way of expressing it...even some PAMF newbie.

HAIL the art of expression throguh sports!!

ARE WE HAVING FUN YET??????

[D-Sub]

with his BACK hand?

heh...yeah...only a kid could be flexible and "naive" enough to pull that!

naive meaning not knowing "hey, you cant do that!"

:)

[Guest Pepe Le Pew]

It was actually a goal of mine for this season but I barely put enough days to get my legs in shape, only 8 so far :(

I'd like to be able to switch styles within the same run.

2 EC carves, 2 race turns, 2 pureboarding carves and so on.

Eric

[bibo]

So to sum up.After 33 replyies

Nobody here likes the Edge style very at all. You could have at least admited that the guys ride like hell :p

Almost everybody likes the EC style (but in fact no one can do the turns,like they do

:rolleyes: )

[philfell]

That's not at all what I said!

Go to http://www.rossmillerphoto.com/searchphoto.php click on action photos from 2-25-2005 look at photo a374 and a424. I can ec turn if I want to, it's really not that hard when you compare it to other aspects of hardbooting. I think linking a steep bump run together on a G.S. board it way harder than linking together laid out turns on good snow.

Go back and read peoples responses! Especially read what the veterens have to say ie. bordy and kent. These guys have been in the sport for a long time. Quite trying to pigeonhole hardbooting and just ride how you want to.

[nils]

Don't want to sound polemical but that a374 turn is not an EC turn, since you're bending at the waist.. ;)

As for bombing EC turns on non-hero snow, its possible and also quite fun since its tricky!

I wouldn't call EC easy unless i can do as good as P&J... Despite few years of training am still waaaay far from what they can do using this technique..

Anyway agreed with all said here: master all techniques to have fun :)... and also switch to skiing sometimes its also fun!

Nils

[philfell]

Yeah totally agreed with that these pics aren't "perfect" ec style. When they were taken we were out freeriding and there was a mt. photo guy on the run we were taking. In both pics I made a last minute decsion to lay out some turns. If you notice on the heelside I'm more angulated than bent at the waist, but it's hard to tell from that angle, also I'm trying to look directly into the camera lens throughout the entire turn, since I was turning away from the camera and still trying to follow it with my head/eyes, it made the turn a little weird.

Also I never said it was easy to ec turn. I said compared to other aspects of hardbooting its not as hard. Ask any rider on the word cup which is harder, laying out turns or putting down a clean G.S. run?

[Neil Gendzwill]

D-sub: Berts are lead hand on the wall/snow/wave if you're doing them frontside (heel edge) and trailing hand or both hands for backside. Laybacks are always frontside AFAIK with trailing hand. I could never get them skating as it required more flexibility than I possess, plus it's really tricky to get that board to come back under you.

FWIW I think the laid-out carves are really cool, wish I could do them as well as the European guys do. Angulated bomber style carves are really cool, with I could do them as well as the East Coast guys do. Racing technique is really cool, wish I could do it as well as Jasey-Jay does.

'sall good. Big fat word to everything Bordy said.

[gdboytyler]

Originally posted by philfell

I think linking a steep bump run together on a G.S. board it way harder than linking together laid out turns on good snow.

Considering I haven't seen ANYONE (in video or in person) linking good turns on ANY kind of snowboard on a steep bump run and I've seen only 2 people link totally stylish, laid out turns on steep runs - good technique on steep bumps must be harder.

As for a clean GS run, a lot riders can do that, at least on good conditions. Once it gets rutted out or you get a tough course, then that's what really separates the good from the great.

[ARCrider]

I've seen somebody run the bumps on "white heat" at Sunday River. He didn't link turns so much as simply run the zipper line like in a mogul competition. Saw the same guy attack a skier's GScourse a couple of days later. Just as inspiring to watch him bash through GS gates as his bump run. I think he was riding a factory prime. Don't know his name. maybe someone else does. this was two seasons ago

as for mastering the carve and having fun. the two don't necessarily go together. compare experts and beginners. who is having more fun?

[mirror70]

Originally posted by gdboytyler

Considering I haven't seen ANYONE (in video or in person) linking good turns on ANY kind of snowboard on a steep bump run

You just haven't seen Beckman in the bumps.

[Neil Gendzwill]

And what do you mean by "linking good turns". If you mean carving trenches, then I haven't seen that either. But I can link turns and stick aggressively to the fall line in some pretty big and steep bumps (western soft ones, not eastern icy ones).

[wavechaser]

To me, bumps are the hardest thing to master on a board - I mean RIPPING bumps down the fall line like a skier, getting a stylie air, and going right back to ripping. I agree that you don't see it much, but when you do you know it is one hell of a good rider. The perfect bump setup helps - a good all-mountain board with slightly soft nose, not too long, 21cm or so waist plates at fairly slack angles (mine are 41/24), hard boots adjusted kind of loose (esp. the rear one) with not too much forward lean. Think Prior 4x4 or the old Avalanche Ice Rocket (my favorite EVER).

I started on carving boards/ hard boots back in 1990 because of my 22 year skiing background, then just started riding hard boots for everything, even loose in the pipe (got a lot of "what the hells" from the jibbers for that). Bottom line is that plate/hard setups equal more control at speed - period, and allow you to become a better all-around rider. My hard boot experience makes me ride my softies much more aggresively than most soft setup riders...it's just GOOOOOOD for you.

[gdboytyler]

Originally posted by mirror70

You just haven't seen Beckman in the bumps.

I'd like to see some good snowboard bump action!

One of the times I've seen good bump riding was in the old video "Snowboarder's in Exile" and they profiled a Euro boarder that specialized in bumps. He was banging throught the bumps like a skier, but the run didn't look very steep.

The other one was in the Pureboarding video in some powdery bumps.

I have fun on powdery moguls on blue runs. But hard moguls on a double black is just plain work.