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Recommend a tree board


JRAZZ

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2 hours ago, daveo said:

@BlueB recommended 45/30 to me but I think I prefer 45/35. Might try inward cant for these angles also, not sure yet. 

Um, it's more of what BlueB rides with BlueB's size boots and BlueB's board... It probably won't work on your current 21.5 waisted Nomad. I think we were discussing the maneuverability of larger splays vs carvability of more parallel stances. But then, you also get really good pow riders, like Phil or Softbootsurfer, who ride fully paralel 45ish stances... 

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20 minutes ago, BlueB said:

Um, it's more of what BlueB rides with BlueB's size boots and BlueB's board... It probably won't work on your current 21.5 waisted Nomad. I think we were discussing the maneuverability of larger splays vs carvability of more parallel stances. But then, you also get really good pow riders, like Phil or Softbootsurfer, who ride fully paralel 45ish stances... 

No. It is what you said I must ride on my board to be a good rider. Those were you exact words. Lol joking.

Nah was just trying things. And tried your setup. 45/35 worked well for freeriding with titanflexes with the little lift. 30 felt a bit twisted to me, 35 was nice and I could land little drops and stuff quite comfortably. Boot wasn't dragging in the powder probably because of the large shovel. 

I don't carve much when I bring that board out basically because it isn't a great carver but also because 35 rear probably wouldn't allow deep carves. 

Just bang around, it goes over most variable terrain nicely. Trees and powder at those angles on that board is actually really enjoyable. I do wish it carved better, but I think I'm spoilt by my Kessler and Oxess with plates on them.

Still looking forward to trying your pro model though. Hopefully your conditions improve there so you can finish prototyping. 

Edited by daveo
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11 hours ago, Jack M said:

Prior 4WD, Coiler AM, Donek AX.

Interesting.  I just built a board for a fella using a Prior 4WD as a "starting point".  He was wanting something like his old 170 4wd but easier to ride, hopefully carve a little better, and especially ride better in the bumps and off piste (trees, a crappy mogully tree board....)  He interestingly uses some of those rare Catek softboot bindings with quite forward/narrow stance.   It's only kinda what goes around comes around as the 4wd is really similar to the Skid stuff Wayne and I used to make in the early 90's in Whistler... ha ha!!!  I basically kept the 170 length and the same width (24), but shrank the effective edge to 138 (from about 142).  Put in a bit of decamber in the shovel and the hips.  Tweaked the sidecut a bit such that there is a bit tighter radius in the shovel zone and it tapers away towards the hips.  It averages about 10m.  The shovel has some extra area added beyond the contact patch, and very gentle transitions from sidecut to nose plan radius.  This is to allow for good float in a narrow board and to try to allow for the shovel to slip into troughs and convexities when the board isn't being carved (that is angulation is low.)  The tail gets a similar, but more agressive treatment allowing for the tail to not hook up when being "dragged" through the zipper line.  Mostly all of this stuff makes a board that is still carvey, but much more nimble when the carve is not "on".  Built a hardboot version of this to bring to the MCC.

The take-aways here are that the typical carving board manufacturers tend to keep things pure and run traditional full cambers or pretty sharp tail transitions.  Shovels tend to be a little short. For the trees and bumps.  This is totally understandable as there are about 10 people in north america who want to ride bumps or trees in hardboots. 

For crappy mogully trees (and better, softer, powdery trees, and bowls, and moguls, and still have some good groomer performance) I would shorten the effective edge even further in relation to the overall length, and make it a little wider.  I have  a pic on my phone of a 170 with a 132 ee, but aimed at softboots.  I'll try to post from that...  That thing is a softboot carving weapon...  the one on the left.

 

20181209_155954.jpg

Edited by carlito
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Super-limited experience here, but another O-Sin 3800 treated me well in my 4 days in resort powder & trees. It was a little tough to hop around at low speeds in tight trees. 

Looking forward to trying a Dupraz 5'5" in Montana, but bringing the 3800 as well. 

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8 hours ago, carlito said:

Interesting.  I just built a board for a fella using a Prior 4WD as a "starting point".  He was wanting something like his old 170 4wd but easier to ride, hopefully carve a little better, and especially ride better in the bumps and off piste (trees, a crappy mogully tree board....)  He interestingly uses some of those rare Catek softboot bindings with quite forward/narrow stance.   It's only kinda what goes around comes around as the 4wd is really similar to the Skid stuff Wayne and I used to make in the early 90's in Whistler... ha ha!!!  I basically kept the 170 length and the same width (24), but shrank the effective edge to 138 (from about 142).  Put in a bit of decamber in the shovel and the hips.  Tweaked the sidecut a bit such that there is a bit tighter radius in the shovel zone and it tapers away towards the hips.  It averages about 10m.  The shovel has some extra area added beyond the contact patch, and very gentle transitions from sidecut to nose plan radius.  This is to allow for good float in a narrow board and to try to allow for the shovel to slip into troughs and convexities when the board isn't being carved (that is angulation is low.)  The tail gets a similar, but more agressive treatment allowing for the tail to not hook up when being "dragged" through the zipper line.  Mostly all of this stuff makes a board that is still carvey, but much more nimble when the carve is not "on".  Built a hardboot version of this to bring to the MCC.

The take-aways here are that the typical carving board manufacturers tend to keep things pure and run traditional full cambers or pretty sharp tail transitions.  Shovels tend to be a little short. For the trees and bumps.  This is totally understandable as there are about 10 people in north america who want to ride bumps or trees in hardboots. 

For crappy mogully trees (and better, softer, powdery trees, and bowls, and moguls, and still have some good groomer performance) I would shorten the effective edge even further in relation to the overall length, and make it a little wider.  I have  a pic on my phone of a 170 with a 132 ee, but aimed at softboots.  I'll try to post from that...  That thing is a softboot carving weapon...  the one on the left.

 

20181209_155954.jpg

I assume you arecsctually talking about ATV (as opposed to 4WD), since that one was 23.5 wide and 171 long. Interestingly, that was exactely what I was thinking to talk the late Chris Prior into doing. Basically throw the ATV outline onto Spearhead or hybrid MFR camber mold and slightly modify the laminate... 

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1 hour ago, BlueB said:

I assume you arecsctually talking about ATV (as opposed to 4WD), since that one was 23.5 wide and 171 long. Interestingly, that was exactely what I was thinking to talk the late Chris Prior into doing. Basically throw the ATV outline onto Spearhead or hybrid MFR camber mold and slightly modify the laminate... 

Yeah, Probably the ATV.  There were no model indicators/graphics on it when i busted out the tape measure.  Like your logic about how to take a first stab at "widening" the performance envelope.  Miss ya Chris.  sigh.

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

  Have you looked into Full Bags line up?

 

On 2/4/2019 at 8:31 PM, JRAZZ said:

. I looked and couldn't really find a recommendation for a real tree board (for hardboots)

The Diamond Blade will be my next board purchase for hard bootn in the trees.

 

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Think I found it...

Super short and flexy slalom board (F2 Speedster 158). I think this is kinda along the lines of what @carlito suggested. Very maneuverable and barely stable at higher speed (not a problem, I'm slow!) Soooo much fun though the board is anything but friendly. Kinda feels like it's waiting around the corner with a knife waiting for me to make a mistake. It's a work-out but it's the first alpine board I rode that I can consider to be nimble.

b1.jpg

b2.jpg

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404 - tree board not found in those pictures.  😉

Have you tried an actual powder board?  While you can ride alpine boards in powder, they're a bit like driving an F1 car on a rallycross track.  You can, but it's more fun with appropriate equipment.  

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I was looking for a mogul / hard bump board, not a pow board. It's interesting, when I say "trees" I mean the crappy moguly stuff you find at Loveland after a couple of dry days. I almonst never make it to real pow so I was looking for a nimble board that is very quick to turn between the bumps in the trees 🙂

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/4/2019 at 7:31 PM, JRAZZ said:

Just curious as to what works.

 

I am a fan of the Prior Fissile. The board truly amazes me. I ride on a 178 with hard boots. I can assure you that it is a ninja. It will do moguls, tree's, deep powder, couloirs, anything you want. Except for groomers, hard pack and moonscape. I honestly haven't ridden another board that fits my style as good as this one.

On 2/6/2019 at 8:10 AM, BlueB said:

I assume you arecsctually talking about ATV (as opposed to 4WD), since that one was 23.5 wide and 171 long. Interestingly, that was exactely what I was thinking to talk the late Chris Prior into doing. Basically throw the ATV outline onto Spearhead or hybrid MFR camber mold and slightly modify the laminate... 

Which way do you point that thing?

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  • 9 months later...

The Burton Alps really are pretty good for this application. They're soft so you can bully them around, they won't hold a deep carve but they start to carve at pretty low rail angles which is key, because you don't want to be laying the board over if the trees are tight - not if you like your shoulders intact. They have some tail turn-up which is handy because you'll often have to get out of trouble riding switch for a bit. They actually like pretty moderate stance angles because they're pretty wide which gives them nice float too.. Also - they're at least fifteen years old so if you hit a rock you don't go into mourning, as you would with a custom Donek or something.

Slalom boards are nimble but much tougher to skid, have less float because they're narrower, and tend to be too stiff in the nose for the kind of moguls you'll often hit backcountry where there may only have been eight riders before you but they all had to turn in the same place.

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  • 11 months later...
On 12/25/2019 at 8:14 PM, JRAZZ said:

Nothing exciting....

 I found an Arbor Cask for really cheap. It’sa very forgiving board that’s pretty quick to turn. 

This one is too funny! I got your Cask for tree days looking for stashes where I am normally riding. Think I'll keep the little old Madd freeride for crud/trees/nasty snow.

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  • 5 weeks later...
On 2/4/2019 at 11:18 PM, daveo said:

I've got a Donek Nomad that works well for that. 21.5cm wide. 

OES AM 23cm wide @BlueB special. I'm probably going to get one of these once they've finalised prototyping it. 

Virus has a 166 23.5cm wide revolution hardboot freeride board which I imagine would be decent for this, but every virus owner seems to be a dick, so whatever.

Oxess will have something in the mix for this also this year. Gotta wait for that one. 

I reckon a coiler bxfr 23cm-23.5cm wide would work well for this also.

"Every virus owner is a dick"

I beg to differ.  While I have one I am not one 😅

Edited by Tddragon
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