andygere Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 Just had a heel bale sheer off inside the lug on my TD1s. I was thinking metal fatigue after thousands of cycles. Are the bales on TD3s the same as TD1s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted March 12, 2021 Report Share Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) The current TD3 bails are shaped a little differently but fit in the TD1 lugs. Whether TD3 lugs fit TD1 bindings I'm not sure. I do have some TD1 -- when I dig them up I'll check. Update: TD1 shoulder bolts seem just slightly too big to fit through TD3 lugs. I can't find my calipers, but the TD3 axle (lug shaft) is 8mm while the TD1 shoulder bolt shaft is bigger (guessing imperial). So you would want new shoulder bolts, M6 threaded section, 8mm shoulder. Someone on here posted the parts page for Bishop telemark bindings as a source for lugs. They say compatible with original Bishop (Bomber Bishop?) so probably the same as TD1?? Edited March 13, 2021 by teach Added update Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted March 12, 2021 Report Share Posted March 12, 2021 On 3/23/2018 at 10:08 AM, Wolf said: Mord could be a cute, young female half my age. Well, I can hope, can't I? Well that all depends on how old you are... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 Updated my post above. For TD1 (or TD2) it looks like you should be able to use TD3 lugs as long as you get new shoulder bolts to fit the 8mm bore of the lugs. These aren't proprietary so you're in luck. Maybe some washers as necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygere Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 Thanks for the information on Bishop bindings. They show toe and heel lugs, and toe shoulder bolts, any idea which is the right fit? I can call them if needed. I did get a replacement heel bale from Walker, and a lug as well (non-spring side) though he said it was from a TD-3, so I may be in search of a stainless shoulder bolt. I’ll try to put it together and see what’s what this weekend, and post here so others who need the info can find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted March 20, 2021 Report Share Posted March 20, 2021 Sorry, I only know OF the Bishop since it was a Bomber invention. I Heel vs toe... maybe call and ask for measurements? The big lug with the spring I think needs a longer unthreaded portion (but that's not the one you're replacing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 Broke another bail today, front foot. Heard a clunk, thought I hit a small chunk of ice (in the back of my mind I thought "binding?"), 2 turns later my front foot came out. Serviced all my bindings last season replacing several frozen bails and lugs. Re-assembled some with neverseize and some with thread tape. These were not ones I replaced, but had taken apart and seemed okay and re-assembled. Pretty sure I bought these bindings used, so who knows what kind of abuse they saw before I got them. Check your bails and if you here an odd clunk, it may be too late. Must be metal fatigue from working back and forth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eboot Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 Curious - how often does this happen (TDs as well as F2s)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 20, 2022 Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 2nd td3sw rear bail/front foot to break while riding in 2 years for me. Had a few break right off at same place whilst trying to adjust the bail/lug, front & rear bails. Before that was about 30 yrs ago, a bail on a pair of F2's, back when they had metal toe & heel blocks and less beefy bails. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 My unproven theory: With the TD3 lugs having positive stops to limit rotation, it's possible to step on them and put a large bending stress on the bails. They're strong enough that it feels pretty solid so you don't realize how much you've overstressed them. Able to get a clear macro shot of the fracture surface, with orientation noted? If the above is true, likely to have many small beach marks starting on the upper edge, progressing down with fatigue loading until the remaining material pops from overload in that one last turn. How do you prevent this? Make sure you don't step on the bails when getting in or out of the bindings. It starts hidden damage. This is a good plan for any bindings, even if the above is all wrong! 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 Turns out mechies can be of use, who knew? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 On 1/21/2022 at 6:08 AM, Corey said: My unproven theory: With the TD3 lugs having positive stops to limit rotation, it's possible to step on them and put a large bending stress on the bails. They're strong enough that it feels pretty solid so you don't realize how much you've overstressed them. Able to get a clear macro shot of the fracture surface, with orientation noted? If the above is true, likely to have many small beach marks starting on the upper edge, progressing down with fatigue loading until the remaining material pops from overload in that one last turn. How do you prevent this? Make sure you don't step on the bails when getting in or out of the bindings. It starts hidden damage. This is a good plan for any bindings, even if the above is all wrong! Sounds like a good theory. Maybe a good argument for using step-ins. Both my failures were heel bails. While I have always been very careful not to step on the bails, both my bindings that broke were acquired 2nd hand. The one pair I purchased new seem good. I went through all my sidewinders last season because I had to adjust the bail length to fine tune the fit for new boots. In the process I found several frozen bail/lug joints which broke off pretty easily when turning the lug. Most were heel bails, one was on a toe bail. I replaced them with new lugs and bails. The ones that didn't break were re-assembled with anti-seize. One of those broke the other day, mid turn. The ones I bought new (6-7 yrs ago?) had no problems, no frozen lugs. Maybe the lesson here is to replace heel bails & lugs on bindings you buy used. Damage from crashes or being stepped on may not be detectable before failure. ...or use step-ins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVR Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 If you don't race, step-ins are a bulletproof way of not worrying about bindings.... But hey, what do I know...I use them because I am lazy.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkaholic Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 1 hour ago, TVR said: If you don't race, step-ins are a bulletproof way of not worrying about bindings.... But hey, what do I know...I use them because I am lazy.... Ice had a toe bail break the other day on his step-in and he said it wasn't his first. Step-ins are not immune to breaking either. ink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVR Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 Good to know.... TD2s? TD3s? Something else? The TD2s are aluminum, so bulky and easily scored, but those are what I use without issue yet... Again, just freeriding and using them because I am lazy and don't want to bend over.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dredman Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 38 minutes ago, inkaholic said: Ice had a toe bail break the other day on his step-in and he said it wasn't his first. Did it fully release the foot or just the toe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkaholic Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 25 minutes ago, dredman said: Did it fully release the foot or just the toe? Kevin said he got to the top of the lift and noticed it flopped over to the side so not while riding. Unfortunately not noticed at the bottom. He said the other one was in the gate to start a parallel race. A coach noticed and informed Kevin. Kevin flipped the bail over, put his toe in and stepped down engaging the pins and raced the run. So I guess the takeaway is that it is not nearly as catastrophic as if a standard bail breaks. ink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dredman Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 That is all promising news! Kevin is a Legend! Sounds like stepping on bails is the largest precursor to failure on modern bindings. See you soon! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 24, 2022 Report Share Posted January 24, 2022 I broke two toe bails on step ins. Both front foot on TD3s. One was as I finished a run and stopping at the demo tent in Aspen. Just lost the heel edge and landed on my butt, foot stayed in. 2nd popped in a turn, something felt weird so I stopped and looked down to see the bail askew. No release. The bails are the same TD2 to TD3, but the lugs and blocks changed. Random stuff happens too: A skier hit me from behind and released a toe clip with his ski. Tumbling with a board only on your back foot is unpleasant. Luckily no leg injuries for me on that one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 25, 2022 Report Share Posted January 25, 2022 Just had a conversation with someone involved with sidewinder development and prototype testing and there had been a discussion back then about how extreme cold may be a factor with the broken bails as @bobble recently wondered. It was between 5-10 below when my bail broke the other day. I have ridden many years without gear failure. I'm 68 yrs old and don't ride that hard much of the time. And, despite my moniker, I ain't that big, just riding bigwaves in my imagination. My worst nightmare is having that front foot come out mid turn. I was lucky this time. I'm going to do as @johnasmo and go over my bindings every year and replace any lug/bail unions that show signs of resistance to spinning freely. F2's break too. Racers replace them often, like every year if they can afford it, before they fail. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carvin' Marvin Posted January 25, 2022 Report Share Posted January 25, 2022 @dredmanhave you had any titanium intecs fail on you? I’ve broken two boards but never a binding or boot part. I generally ride like a 210lb raped ape and I kick the bejeezus out of my rear binding before every run to clear the snow off. Maybe the play between the nuts and the threaded portion of the bail helps in some way? Semi-pertinent de-rail question- as the bindings get older I’ve noticed I have to adjust those stupid toe bail height adjusters more often. Anybody tried loctiting those into submission? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladia Posted January 25, 2022 Report Share Posted January 25, 2022 I broke my heel bail many years ago. Pretty much it is metal fatigue any mystery there. The failure starting from the surface defect. You cut the threads in bail and you can expect some defect there. It will slowly starts to propagate, you will see very fine and uniform lamellar surface. When crack reach critical size the rest of the rod just breaks, due to stress. Do forget we are on snow, the water penetrates in to the crack and cause more damage. If you think stainless does not corrode you are mistaken. I had many years on my bail, if you want to be safe just periodically change bails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 25, 2022 Report Share Posted January 25, 2022 I've broke several TD3 SW bails both front and back. Always just past the start of the threads or at the start of the threads. Both step-in and standard. I went to all standard a few years back, have to get those stretches in! I always carry spare lugs and bails both front and rear. I've broken them at fairly warm Temps, around freezing, very cold. I'm not little but I'm not as lively as CM. I have yet to break a Catek or a F2 bail. I probably have equal number of turns on F2s as I do TD3s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dredman Posted January 25, 2022 Report Share Posted January 25, 2022 @Carvin' MarvinI have not had any failures with the F2 Titan Flex. I do not ride them as often as my TD-3’s (I like the 6 degree toe and heel lift). I did inspect the t-nuts this year, they looked good. Yes you do ride like a teenager jacked up on Red Bull and Otter Pops! I love your style! If anyone was going to break stuff, I would put you on the likely canidate list. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVR Posted February 1, 2022 Report Share Posted February 1, 2022 My son today finally broke a TD2 rear bail. Surprised me... Seems the bolt going into the block through the eye decided it had had enough.... First such failure... Guess even as tough as the TD2s are, they too have their limits.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.