Freerider looking for answers!

[TimB]

Hello there!

Let me introduce myself shortly: I'm Tim, mid twenties, Dutch, one-week-a-year freerider. As a job I work with bicycles and for a hobby I like working on cars. Classic Volvo's to be precise. 

When boarding I like speed. A lot of guys like kickers and parks, but I like cruising or high speed long turns. Sounds like carving. I've always liked the look of hardbooters. 

Now, a couple of days ago I was a second-hand shop and I found a board. I bought it because it appeared to be my size. With it, I got some question marks.

First: the bindings. 

They are burtons but the only thing I could find was the brand. I have no clue what type. Do they need 'special' shoes from the same era as the bindings or do modern hardboots fit? Could ski-boots fit? 

Then the board: Its from 1998, that's how much I know. Is this a known board?

Underneath the rear binding was a plate which was canted. I haven't seen this earlier. Could someone explain to me why?

 

As you might notice I would really like to learn more. I would also like to get out and ride this pretty piece of vintage!

Kind regards, Tim.

 

[teach]

You'd probably appreciate the alpinecarving.com site. Lots of information (up to 2007). Your bindings appear to be the Carrier stepins: http://www.alpinecarving.com/binding_model.html#older

The board is an Alp. I've never ridden one, but there appear to be a lot still out there being ridden. Might be a good starter for hard boots given your interests.

The cant plate is common with Burton bindings. In those days, the idea was to use inward cant to get the knees closer together. If it works for you, great. If you prefer some other canting setup, you usually have to  hack, unless it's a variplate (see alpinecarving site). Wedges under toe/heel blocks are probably the way to go.

 

[jim_s]

The Burton Alp 64 is a great board! I spent several days on one out in Vail many years ago. I was totally in love with the board, and wanted to buy it, but realized that back East, I'd likely kill myself or someone else on it - was just way too fast and large-radiused for my local, narrow, crowded slopes. I ended up getting an Alp 56, which I also loved, and was far more appropriate for where I skied on the East Coast, but I still have very fond memories of the 64! :-) I nicknamed it 'The Red Sled' - it was an exhilarating ride!!

You just need to find an old pair of Burton Shadow boots to use with it now!!! :-)

[ursle]

The bindings are pointed the wrong way, the clip goes on the toe of the boot, the bail on the heel.

Alpine riders tend to use bindings that allow the toe of the front foot to be higher than the heel, and the heel of the rear foot to be higher than the toe, cant, outward or inward leaning of the boot to control precise balance is also part of the package, today riders use 20-22” between bindings, not 16”, having 22” between bindings gives the rider control over the tip or tail at will, just lean forward or backward, so the need for lift and can’t.

[SunSurfer]

2 hours ago, ursle said:

 

Edited December 24, 2017 by SunSurfer
Retract and apologise.

[BlueB]

Welcome on board! 

That Alp should be a pretty sweet freeride board for hard boots and right learning carver. Good score! 

Those bindings are sketchy. Get at least propper Burton Race Plates... 

Edited December 24, 2017 by BlueB

[jim_s]

I didn't have those particular bindings, but I've seen them (long ago). IIRC, those are actually positioned correctly - the toe goes under the front bale, and then stepping down on the cross bar under the heel brings the lever up over the rear heel piece. (Double-check me on that - its been a long time - but that's what I recall about those bindings.) (Update: see http://www.alpinecarving.com/binding_model.html under the section "Older Bindings" - as noted by others above, it might be a good idea to replace them - the article notes that these tend to break and/or twist out, if you don't have a particular type of boot.)

 

Edited December 24, 2017 by jim_s

[nitro]

Tim,

I had those binders , I had to make  safety straps that went around the boot to keep them from popping open heelside.

Im  200lbs , ride  around 50-60days in a season , I found out the bails are a little weak & prone to breaking .

burton hard boots are going to fit these step in binders better than most other boots . 

old burton boots will probably need new liners.

the alps 3d hole pattern will also limit your option of bindings .

 alps are a wider carving boards, so depending on your foot size, maybe buy some bomber power plates to use with your soft boot setup? 

 reviving these older set ups can be a little tricky & you might spend more than you want and still not get it up to par.

Ideas for a good start ; 

get  a complete tune up, base grind ,edge tune & wax.

replace the step in binders with some ibex bindings & use your burton 3d center discs.

find some burton hard boots on BOL , if needed put new liners in them.

then go ride!

[TimB]

Hi guys!

Thanks for your fast and elaborate answers!

Nitro Makes a good point, I'm a solid 6ft5 tall and weigh in at 220Lbs. Mix that in with a size 12 shoe...  Maybe the board isn't wide enough without some help. My freeride board is a Nitro (ha-ha) Magnum 165W. 

The edges are sharp. the base is waxed and there are virtually no scratches. Ready to ride I'd say. 

I'm glad people actually know this stuff. I bought the board+bindings for roughly 10usd.... (9,25 euro) probably due to the fact that nobody seems to know what they're selling. Especially at a thrift shop... I figured there was no single way to lose money buying this.

I will see if I can score a pair of Burton Boots. I read the 'shadow' would fit. what about the 'Wind'? other well known and very affordable boots?

I think I will take my chances with the bindings for now. My first rides will be either on the beginner slopes or even an indoor ski-centre. (we dutchies have a lot, except for anything that can go for a mountain. Still though, no snow...) there will be no beating on the material for the upcoming time. Just a lot of toppling over.

Thanks a lot!

 

[Beckmann AG]

17 hours ago, TimB said:

As a job I work with bicycles and for a hobby I like working on cars. Classic Volvo's to be precise. 

240 or 122?

[Jack M]

17 hours ago, teach said:

You'd probably appreciate the alpinecarving.com site

It is almost an encyclopedia, however written only by one person and reading it is a bit like trying to drink from a fire hose.  There are articles for getting started and beyond here at http://www.bomberonline.com/instruction-articles/

17 hours ago, teach said:

The cant plate is common with Burton bindings. In those days, the idea was to use inward cant to get the knees closer together. If it works for you, great

Generally this is not good technique.  Knees jammed together is a relic from 1990.  A good place to start is with some toe lift on your front foot and heel lift on your back foot, and no canting.  Then experiment from there.  With Burton bindings you'll have to make these lifts yourself. Or you can use that cant wedge you have, and make/find shims to offset the inward cant.

14 hours ago, ursle said:

The bindings are pointed the wrong way, the clip goes on the toe of the boot, the bail on the heel.

Actually they're not.  With these bindings the clip is on the heel. But I agree with BlueB, a friend of mine asked me to help him adjust these to his boots and I could not get them to a place where I thought they were safe.  It seems the closing mechanism depends on a certain amount of play in order to close.  Pretty sure Burton only made these for one year because of this.  I recommend you don't ride them.

 

16 hours ago, jim_s said:

You just need to find an old pair of Burton Shadow boots to use with it now!!! :-)

Burton boots are known to crack with age.  Look for used Raichle/Deeluxe, UPZ, or Head.

2 hours ago, TimB said:

I'm a solid 6ft5 tall and weigh in at 220Lbs. Mix that in with a size 12 shoe.

Yeah this is not an ideal setup, but for $10 it's worth a day.  The board is too short and too soft for you, and the bindings really should be replaced, even for day 1.  If after that day you want to pursue this further I'd recommend looking for a used Swoard, Prior 4x4, or F2 Silberpfeil Vantage because they're wide.  There are classified ads here, or Swoards and F2 SVs might be more likely to appear at http://www.extremecarving.com/forum/index.php which is more European centric.

Good luck, let us know how it goes!

[TimB]

4 hours ago, Beckmann AG said:

240 or 122?

Too young ;) kidding. Everything up to the '900' series. 

A friend of mine has Volvo classic garage. His own car (and mascot) is a 1963 pv544. The brown one in the pictures.

I love the 245! But my dream car is a 164 front with a 145 rear. Which makes  165.(red one with black grille in  pictures.) Sadly, it never got past prototyping so every model on the road (200 worldwide) are DIY!

[TimB]

19 hours ago, Jack Michaud said:

Yeah this is not an ideal setup, but for $10 it's worth a day.  The board is too short and too soft for you, and the bindings really should be replaced, even for day 1.  If after that day you want to pursue this further I'd recommend looking for a used Swoard, Prior 4x4, or F2 Silberpfeil Vantage because they're wide.  There are classified ads here, or Swoards and F2 SVs might be more likely to appear at http://www.extremecarving.com/forum/index.php which is more European centric.

Good luck, let us know how it goes!

I'm really positively surprised by the amount of good advice and friendly welcome! I've seen different on other forums... 

Once again thank you all. I'll let you know once the board has touched snow.

And before I forget; Merry Christmas to all of you!

[Wolf]

If you do decide to try those bindings (gently!), I had a chance to look at similar bindings closely and found that they will not work at all with ski boots.  The metal "ears" on the heel plate restrain the heel of the boot from moving from side to side, and ski boot heels were too wide to seat properly.  I found that some Raichle boots did appear to work.  I'm only bringing it up since you mentioned ski boots.  With your size, I would only try those bindings for some very gentle gliding down the hill - nothing aggressive.

[Beckmann AG]

Nice cars. Partial to SAAB, but keep a few 240's on hand just because. Missed out on a pair of 122 wagons a few years back. Too many projects; too few parking spots.

The Alp is a good starting point. The bindings are not. If you're on a budget, and don't know what you'll be using for boots, find a set of CATEK WC.

This is an old listing for illustrative purposes. You'd most likely want the long plate version. http://forums.bomberonline.com/topic/43050-catek-world-cup-bindings-long/?tab=comments#comment-437596

The base disc incorporates the standard 4x4 pattern, as well as the Burton 3d. They are infinitely adjustable within their range, so you can match the platform to whatever boot geometry you end up with.

Some find them too fiddly, but if you can tune a bike, and read beyond the third grade level, you'll be all set.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Beckmann AG

[cin]

Hi Tim,

I'm a Dutchie who recently started hardbooting as well. If you're serious about your ambitions to hardboot, then perhaps it's a good idea to look at the snowpepper and soulboarders websites. They organize weekly carving sessions (mostly hardbooters, but there's softboot carvers there as well) in Zoetermeer and Landgraaf. I've joined a few of the Snowpepper training sessions over the summer. Snowpepper is more aimed at training slalom (competitively), soulboarders are more aimed towards carving in general. Will probably try out the Soulboarders training sessions when I get back from Austria. I can't carve my hardboot setup yet, but I did get some good pointers, basic techniques and exercises that I can attempt during my holiday.

Besides that, I have a question for the community here as well.

My current hardboot quiver consists of an 163 F2 Speedster GTS, an 163 F2 Speedster SL and an 171 Kessler Alpine, all with F2 Race Titanium bindings. I'm on Deeluxe Track-225's (I know, rather flexible, but I got a good deal on them 2nd hand).

My initial idea is to ride the GTS first (most flexible of the 3), then the SL, and MAYBE the Alpine if I feel comfortable. But probably just the F2's this year.

Is that a good way to work my way up from a more flexible board towards the stiffer? Or would it be best to get on the stiffer SL to begin with?

[BlueB]

1 hour ago, cin said:

Is that a good way to work my way up from a more flexible board towards the stiffer? 

Good idea. The softest board will start to carve at the lowest speed. It would max out at the lowest speed too, you'll know when that happens. 

[cin]

43 minutes ago, BlueB said:

Good idea. The softest board will start to carve at the lowest speed. It would max out at the lowest speed too, you'll know when that happens. 

Thanks for that feedback. Confirms my initial thoughts. Very eager to try hardbooting on an actual slope instead of just indoors where the width of the slope is limited.

Sorry for the little thread-hijack.