Donek vs SG - Advice please!

[seachange]

Been riding my beloved Burton Ultra Prime 162 (with Burton Wind hard boots & Burton Step-In plate bindings) since 2000 and finally ready to step up to modern gear. Looking at new or recent model Donek and SG boards but have seen nothing in the way of comparison reviews. In fact, I see nothing on SG boards anywhere. I'd love to get some feedback on both from anyone in the know. I am 175 lbs, 5'-10", goofy-foot, love to ride hard and fast, spend most time on east coast hard-pack & ice and have been riding alpine boards since 1995. Still boot shopping but ready to get a pair of TD3 Sidewinder SI's for the new set-up and considering anything from 162cm-175cm in one the following:

Donek: Rev, Proteus or MK 

SG: Full Race Titan or Full Carve

Thank you in advance to anyone with feedback, advice, etc!

So ready to bite the bullet!

[Neil Gendzwill]

The SGs I've seen have tended to be burly boards intended for the race course.  Ultra Primes are relatively soft free carving boards.  The Revs are race boards, the MK is a way more demanding ride than your UP.   If I were you and looking at Donek, I'd be looking at the Metal FC or maybe the Proteus.  I wouldn't be looking at SG at all, but I'm not familiar with their whole line.  You might also look at Coiler, check out the Nirvana.

[Corey]

I love my Donek Rev 163 for narrow runs.  It eats up ice and hardpack.  I haven't ridden one but assume the SG version is similar given it's results in the race scene.  The MK and Proteus are very different tools - less versatile, more specialized to give lots of energy coming out of the turn with a smaller range of turn diameters.  They're fun as heck, if that's what you want.  

Coiler is going to give similar performance for less money, but a longer wait.  

The beauty of both Donek and Coiler is that you can call and talk about what you want, and they can either pick from the catalog or customize something to your needs.  SG boards are very nice, but you can't easily call up Sigi to chat about options!  

[alpinegirl]

I personally found the sg to be more intuitive to ride that the Donek rev. Both are great boards, but I found that I could more readily tap into the versatility of the sg. 

Would you like to borrow a 180? It isn't perfect (last years coverage really fell short), but may serve as a nice eye opener.

That isn't to downplay Donek or Coiler. They are both fantastic builders. Bruce is a bit of a board whisperer.

[GeoffV]

I would recommend staying away from race specific boards (unless you are using it to race) for free carving and learning. Boards by SG and Kessler have a large radius in the tail designed to get you down the race course as fast and straight as possible. That does not translate well to free carving. Coming off of 20 year old Ultra Prime you are going to be blown away by anything made in the 21st century. Look at the Donek Proteus or Free carve line  or as Corey mentioned you can't go wrong with Coilers  Stay away from the Donek REV line if it is for free carving. The REV are boards are specifically for racing, I have a REV and us it for racing only. Given that you are in MD, your trails will be narrow so you'll want a board with a radius of 10m-12m or 12-14m. 

[Corey]

Geoff, the Rev design has evolved considerably over the years. The tail radius has been tightened dramatically, especially in the last year or two. Sean calls it 'hook' I believe. 

I freecarve a Rev 163 all day long locally, and am getting a Rev 180 for mountain freecarving. The 180 REALLY impressed me at ATC with the huge variety of carved turns it could do with subtle weight shifts. 

 

[slapos]

I have not ridden donek or any American snowboard brand, but have ridden SG my entire hardboots career. 

I have ridden both full race and full carve and loved them all. Full race being a full spec race machine is a fantastic carving tool for ice and hardback, albeit a bit damp with titanal. 

Full carve is same shape but without titanal, meaning that it is more lively. 

I would give both a try. I found it easier to make progress as a beginner on titanal board as it just makes the ride smooth as silk.

[avante]

My two cents, most of the euro-carvers I know prefer race specific GS boards (Kesslers and SGs), just saying

[slapos]

3 minutes ago, avante said:

My two cents, most of the euro-carvers I know prefer race specific GS boards (Kesslers and SGs), just saying

Eurocarvers meaning? 

[avante]

1 minute ago, slapos said:

Eurocarvers meaning? 

[slapos]

Isn't that EC ? 

 

I prefer this and sg is perfect for race style carve

[avante]

3 minutes ago, slapos said:

Isn't that EC ? 

 

It is, oh this terminology :)

[charliekarr]

Hard to go wrong with anything mentioned above. Any modern board by a reputable maker will be a big awakening! The advantage of going with Donek or Coiler is that you can talk to the person who designs and/or builds the boards, and get a great match for your size/preferred turn shape/terrain.

My own experience with SG is that they are quite fragile. I'm about your size, and I've broken 2 185 Full Race Titans. I'd put it down to bad luck, but I've talked to other boardmakers about this, and they weren't surprised.

 

[ursle]

Grab the MK jack just posted, then grab some UPZ, used, get em tight, you can always pick up a used174-180 race board, later

[west carven]

howdy seachange

this is a no brainer... call bruce v. at coiler.com @ info@coiler.com and look into a nirvana freecarve or a all mountain,

give him your weight and carving needs and you will be a carving rockstar. than thank me later... west carven

[queequeg]

Upgrading from your current equipment is going to be an eye opener. Modern boards are comparatively easy to ride, and will up your game but some things might take some getting used to. Rather than recommend that you buy a particular board, having never seen you ride or anything: I would start out with a modern used deck that you can resell and try something else rather than buying a brand spanking new board that may or may not make you happy. I would probably steer clear of full-on race decks for now unless they are SL decks: those Factory primes had itty bitty sidecut radii, race decks do not.

As far as boots go: since you mentioned you are using old burton boots: I assume you have narrow feet or enjoy a little pain with your carving delights. The UPZ has a narrow heel, and a wide-ish forefoot. I think Deeluxe is narrower in the front but the heel may not be as tight (others can confirm/deny, I've never actually been in a pair). If you can find a pair of NOS burtons that aren't clear plastic (and have been stored out of sunlight) that fit you'd be lucky to find them. You can also buy Northwave .950 boots brand new now ... not sure what foot profile they are best suited towards but racers are really into them ... no stepin option tho.

Finally: if you are dead-set on stepins: note that the TD3 SI does not work well with MP26 UPZ or smaller. At your weight range, and coming off of some very soft equipment I would consider not going with stepins, they're not that much faster to get in and out of ... and a hell of a lot stiffer laterally.

Edited October 14, 2017 by queequeg

[Eric Brammer aka PSR]

Going from an older Burton, the Donek Freecarve is the 'next step', and if you get it with metal inclusive (though, perhaps just 5lbs. 'under' your weight, so it'll still flex), you'll have a board that's confidently grippy on Ice, and that Eastern 'snow' that gets spewed from snowguns.

Boots; the Burton Wind was a Dalbello boot, so both Blax and Head snowboard boots are of similar ilk, but also 'old'. Do heed the warning about the 'clear plastic' boots Burton had made 18 yrs. ago, they 'shatter', weaker plastic.. UPZ is likely to be a good, new-build boot for you. The Deelux 700's also fit similarly, but have an 'offset' cuff hinge that, for some, just flexes wrong.. 

Bindings; Ibex still makes the 'burton' Race Binding, if you can forego 'step-in' functions. Other step-ins such as F-2 or Bomber using the Intec/Fintec heel will be quite restrictive in lateral motion (The boot won't twist L/R at all) so if you used a cant in the past, you'll want that feature again, or you'll 'fight' the boot cuff's restrictions.. 

One more thought.. A board like the Donek MK is a beast, but a good beast for eastern snow. It's 'nervous', wants to Always Carve, and it'll complain it driven poorly, but has enormous rider-growth potential, taking you as far as you're willing go in hard freecarving/slalom (I waited 2 decades for that board; It's GOOD, but demanding). If you're able to get low/dynamic in your turns, perhaps this would work for you? Or, not. refer to Carvemaster Challenge video (made, um 19 yrs. ago) for the 'dynamic'. Coilers, provided you Know What ya want, are great boards. And Bruce can make you a board you'll want to ride; but, you'll need to 'know' 1st...

 

[st_lupo]

On 10/14/2017 at 3:09 AM, west carven said:

howdy seachange

this is a no brainer... call bruce v. at coiler.com @ info@coiler.com and look into a nirvana freecarve or a all mountain,

give him your weight and carving needs and you will be a carving rockstar. than thank me later... west carven

I'll give this a STRONG second.  I started riding hard boots on an F2 Silberpfeil and was having a great time.  Then I ordered a Coiler from Bruce and was completely blown away.  The difference was like driving a sports car with suspension (Coiler) and without suspension (F2).  The Coiler was a much more stable and forgiving board (but also more aggressive) and allowed for me to focus on bulk technique, whereas the F2 in addition requires a lot of attention to negotiate the chatter.  Plus Bruce is an all around great guy that will work with you to get you set up with a great ride at a price that is pretty inexpensive for custom boards.  I've got a 2 Nirvanas (my original is a balance which I highly recommend) and #2 is an energy that I just bought this year and haven't ridden yet.  

Edited October 15, 2017 by st_lupo

[west carven]

howdy seachange

oh yeah! EC should never be a goal... it's a dirty sloppy way to carve... keep your body parts off the snow for a clean carve...

[michael.a]

Hey seachange, I've tested the wares of Donek and SG and have boards from both manufacturers. If you are looking for something similar to the Burton go with the Proteus w/ titanal but with a standard sidecut. The Proteus is one of my favorite all around boards ever, it will be a huge leap in terms of performance but still something that overlaps with the UP due to the sidecut. Never rode the MK but just the reviews make it sound like just the thing for crowded ice coast slopes, in fact it will probably be my next buy. I was not a fan of the REV line for freecarving, they are very race aggressive and hated coming across the fall line, exhausting to ride even when I downsized. However, these were the 1st gen boards I tried from 4 years ago. Surprisingly, I never experienced the same with the Full Carve or Full Race Titan across the past 8 years although I always downsized by at least one (when I rode the 185s that are for my weight it was just too much for riding on the whole day, like max 2 hours and then call it a day). Anyway, the FCs were just an a great freecarving board that road like a less intense Full Race with tighter sidecut and more energy going out of the turn. Now the FRT is what I love, so damp great edge hold just like a train on rails. My RC is surprisingly docile when you just want to cruise and turn whichever way you wanted but hit the steeps or crank it up and the FRT just delivers. Very very dependable board. I can confirm that SG boards are more delicate and have heard many stories of them breaking but that SG replaced them immediately.

You are in a tough boat, if there is one thing I can recommend do anything to test out as many boards as you can. Like hit Colorado and stop in Bomber HQ and beg and borrow as much as you can or attend any carving events. I've been to about 15 and finally have had my fill of boards, I knows what me likes now.

[seachange]

Just wanted to post a very belated but sincerely HUGE THANK YOU to everyone who replied my original post. So much great feedback from such an awesome and helpful community! So after all that feedback and lots of research, I wound up ordering a Coiler Nirvana Energy 168cm for free carving (most of what I do) and a used SG Full Race 163cm for racing. Also picked up a couple pair of used Bomber TD3's via the Alpine Snowboard Trader FB page. Now just waiting for cold air and precip to try out my new rides. In the meantime, need to decide on new boots and have narrowed the choice to either the DeeLuxe Track 700's or the UPZ RC11. Ruled out the Mountainslope .951's as I can't seem to justify the cost, especially given that a decent liner would increase that cost to $1,250+. I would appreciate any feedback on the Track 700's and the RC11's which I would use primarily for free carving and occasional racing. I am a MP28 boot and fairly easy to fit foot with no unique needs. My only concern with the Track 700 is the lack of a spring system on the back of the boot and with the RC11 I question the real need for a 5-buckle boot.

It is difficult to find reviews on either boot (or hard boots in general) so all feedback is welcome. So happy to have the Bomber Forum back up and running!!

[michael.a]

You can buy a spring system for the 700s and then tailor to meet your needs: original Racihle/Deeluxe RAB mechanism, Bomber BTS, the ACSS from Europe.

I'm in the 700 club but hope to make the change to UPZ RC10s for two reasons, better heel hold and that my boots are just getting old. Otherwise I heard they are very similar in terms of performance.

[slapos]

On boots : my personal preference is the upz. Had been riding upz for 4th season now.

Benefits:

Hold your foot like a vice

Highly customizable:

Foam liners

Interchangeable tongues from very soft to super stiff 

Shorter sole than deluxe ( same boots size in deluxe had me using L size f2s, while in Upz I fit into M size easily. Got 285mm foot which would be a same shell size as yours)

Power parts :

Powerstrap with a ratchet that works really good. It's call3d shoxxter plus

Spoiler and rcr cuff to give you support on the heelside

Upz is a realny great boot, but i have to admit that I have switched to 951 and like them even better. Only the liner in them seems like a sore point now.

 

 

 

[Jack M]

You did very, very well.  Nice going.  You'll be blown away by those boards.

Boots... tough call but with Deeluxe there is a significant chance you won't be able to find a spring system to replace the ridiculous rigid forward lean selector, which should be scrapped immediately.  UPZ comes with a spring system.  If you go UPZ try them for a day and if you feel like the liner is "squirming" inside the shell, replace with Intuition Power Wrap.  This is fairly common.

[jatkinson]

1 hour ago, Jack Michaud said:

You did very, very well.  Nice going.  You'll be blown away by those boards.

Boots... tough call but with Deeluxe there is a significant chance you won't be able to find a spring system to replace the ridiculous rigid forward lean selector, which should be scrapped immediately.  UPZ comes with a spring system.  If you go UPZ try them for a day and if you feel like the liner is "squirming" inside the shell, replace with Intuition Power Wrap.  This is fairly common.

Is the liner squirming inside the shell a known issue?  I just had my first day on new UPZ boots and this was driving me crazy.  I asked UPZ and he said that my shell must be the wrong size.  I felt like the liner fit really well, and stayed put on my foot but the whole thing was moving around unless I had the buckles cranked way too tight.