Burton factory prime setup help

[Pum]

Hi all,

I'm brand new to this forum, but not new to carving board (first learn to snow board on a demo Burton factory prime in '91 and been snowboard ever since).

Long story shorts, I currently ride a vintage Burton factory prime (157) with a stiffer soft, 3-strap bindings with stiffer solt boots.  Well, the binding finally gave out last weekend (loosing the top 3rd strap from back leg). 

I see it as a good opportunity to move into the hard boot world finally.  Btw, I always felt my setup above is/was to soft and sloppy at transferring from edge to edge.  

Totally clueless about the hard boot setup...and looking for help around the understanding around it all like:

Are all hard boot bindings pretty standard? (Universal, so it will work with all hard snowboard boots)

I know snowboard hard boots are different from ski boots (smaller foot print).... What are things I should be considered with the hard boots. I always thought my soft boot setup is pretty sloppy when it comes to the heel - toe edge transfer.  

Any insights would be appreciated.

 

[teach]

For Burton boards, you need to make sure bindings have three-hole-pattern mounting holes. As to boot fit, in principle, the standard bail bindings are universal. Bail shapes and boot shapes vary, though, and you don't always have a perfect match. Bomber bindings let you tweak the bail height, which helps.

There are several step-in systems, but Intec is the most popular. You need boots that accept Intec heels in place of stock for that. Some older boots don't.

Things to look for in hard boots: the shell should be a fairly close fit to your foot. The different manufacturers' boots have different shapes, so trying them all out is ideal. There's a lot of information here about fit, and on Beckmann's site, beckmannag.com

Edited January 13, 2017 by teach

[Pum]

This is really helpful information regarding the bindings and hard boots. There are no stores in my area (D.C. Mid Atlantic) that carry any alpine snowboard equipments, so this is great info for me when hunting for equipments online.

 

[philw]

17 hours ago, Pum said:

Are all hard boot bindings pretty standard? (Universal, so it will work with all hard snowboard boots)

I know snowboard hard boots are different from ski boots (smaller foot print).... What are things I should be considered with the hard boots. I always thought my soft boot setup is pretty sloppy when it comes to the heel - toe edge transfer.  

Well maybe if you broke the soft binding it means you were putting some force into the edge, which can't be a bad thing. 

The footprint of hard boots are all pretty standard, or any you're likely to find are. They have more grip than ski boots and the sole length tends to be shorter for a given boot, with raised tow & heel bits to fit snowboard bindings.

The basic "hard binding" is a "rat trap" thing which has a bail at each end and a clip at the toe (usually) or at the heel so you can clip in. You can generally use them with ski boots too, although the fit can be looser than with dedicated snowboard boots. Most snowboard boots this century will be from three manufacturers: head (discontinued now); Rachlie/Delux (same thing); UPZ. They have different characteristics but all do the same thing - just use whatever fits best or which you can get.

Step in: you can swap the heels on all those modern boots and install an "Intec" adapter which is a thing with little dogs which stick out of the heel. Those fit into an Intex heel piece on an Intec binding. They give a stiffer connection than traditional "clip in" bindings.

Things to consider:

• Try to avoid really old stuff. Designs in this area have been fairly stable this century, further back there were things which don't work as well as the newer stuff.
• Step in is nice to have but not at all essential and lots of people don't use it.
• You can use ski boots if you have them but that's a bit hard-core. Snowboard boots are easier to set up and flex better, and fit the bindings better. 
• You need Intec heels in your boots if your bindings are Intec. I believe you could use boots with Intec heels in non-intec bindings as the sole is the same.

 

[Aracan]

Yes, boots with Intec heels will usually fit in standard bail bindings. However, the Intec heels are noticeably higher than the normal sole pieces. That caused a bit of discomfort  for a rider I know, when she switched from step-in to bail.

[Pum]

Was looking around on ebay last night what are you guys thoughts on these:  

Solomon Quest hard snowboard boots $100: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Salomon-Quest-Snowboard-Boots-Mens-Size-27-Multi-Color/122308937400?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D40757%26meid%3D6dfaaf6c63c04b708f958f5d7a97eac0%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D112256131852

And an old Hooger Booger board that has Burton race bindings $170:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/222366170140?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Going after the bindings ... with a spare board.  Not sure about Hooger Booger??

Is going after these used items and putting them together a waste of money?  Would the experience (riding) be much better going with the new equipment, considering the price deferent?
 

Edited January 13, 2017 by Pum

[b0ardski]

those solomons are skiboots and will be too stiff

[Aracan]

The Hooger Booger boards were quality items back in their day. IIRC, Hooger Booger was later purchased by Scott, which continued to make Alpine boards for a while.

Re the bindings: The moulds were purchased by the original manufacturer from Burton (or some such deal), and I think they now produce bindings for Carve Company. The upshot of this is that parts are available here on Bomber. Currently I see only bails and discs in the store, but as Bomber carries the bindings and the parts exist (see here), I assume other parts will also become available. So, check for cracks and  replace what breaks.

The sum total price seems maybe just a tad high, but not by much.

[lonbordin]

 

I don't know anything about those boots... they look like ski boots that someone is calling snowboard boots.

That board and those bindings are a no go... board is a wall-hanger and those bindings are only for very light riders but their age makes them suspect.

Have you ever tried on ski boots? Are you completely sure about your size?  FIT IS KING.
As an example I wear a 13 wide in most street shoes... My boots are UPZ RC-10, Shell 28 (BSL 312) 

These* boots aren't bad- You'll need a liner but a moldable liner is the way to go anyway.

Not bad price- 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Deeluxe-Track-Free-69-normal-thermal-Inner-shoe-Hard-boot-Snowboard-Raceboard/152260943465?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40791%26meid%3D39678702a86f46aba0bba15548ba1b62%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D252696306675

Boards wise this sticks out as a good entry-

*Below-

 

[Aracan]

Quote

those bindings are only for very light riders

How light? I see guys of at least 180 lb. rip on those. Of course, the bindings are old, but as I said, parts shouldn't be hard to come by.

[lonbordin]

Just now, Aracan said:

How light? I see guys of at least 180 lb. rip on those. Of course, the bindings are old, but as I said, parts shouldn't be hard to come by.

My opinion is bindings are the biggest risk/safety part of the hardboot setup.  I don't want to suggest to a newbie a pair of OLD bindings off of eBay that could very well break and lead to injury.  YMMV... keep all hands and feet inside the ride at all times.

Read more here-

 

[Aracan]

1. The Carrier is a very different beast from the Race Plate. There is a good reason why one is still being made and widely used and the other is not.

2. I agree that bindings can pose a safety risk, which is why I advised to check for cracks.

3. Buying new is the only way to ensure a certain service life in bindings. I have had bindings break after about 100 days, while an identical pair survived more than twice that.

[lonbordin]

7 minutes ago, Aracan said:

1. The Carrier is a very different beast from the Race Plate.

Completely agreed.  If you read through that thread I referenced you'll see several people weighing in on race plates and their experience with them.  And this was back in 2004 when the plates were relatively new.  If we make the assumption those plates are original to that board... suffice to say it is very old.

I agree about the new and the safety risk.  In the end it's OPs call.  :-)

[teach]

I was just out with a new hardbooter. A few runs on his new rig (Burton Ultra Prime and race plates) and the toe lever snapped. That's fixable, but annoying. But the interesting thing is after that I put him on my board and it was just like, you know, insta-shred. Night and day difference. He said so too at the end of the first run. The heel and toe lift, slight outward cant setup worked wonders. That's hard to do with Burton without a varicant or custom shims.

So I think it's a good idea to have access to bindings you can tweak easily, like TD2/3 or Catek. As a bonus, less breakage.

+1 on lonbordin's FIT IS KING! I wear 13 street shoes also and use 28 boots very comfortably. But it's a process to get to a fit-for-a-king fit. I probably went through 6 pairs of boots.

Edited January 13, 2017 by teach

[lonbordin]

Might be good boots for you....

 

[Pum]

What a feedback, I'm leaning a ton about hard boot and bindings setup here.  You all rock!
Agree with all of you that the fit of the boots is key and also the durability/adjustability of the bindings will keep me riding.  

Probably going to go after newer equipments. Technically speaking, I was able to save a lot over the years by only sticking with my faithful vintage Burton factory prime.      

Are the pricing usually better during the off-season?
 

[lonbordin]

Typically the prices stay pretty consistent on quality gear on BOL.  

It's a very small community... we all know what it costs new and we know what we are looking at (for the most part).

Good stuff goes very quickly.

Just FYI the dollar is very strong over Canadian currency right now and one of the best board builders in the business is in Canada.

Some examples are here- 

 

http://www.coiler.com/