RCrobar Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) Hi Sandy I decided to pull out my digital angle finder, that has arms that are about a foot long, to check how much difference there in the amount you can tip a board on edge when using the Gecko Stealth with the 1.5cm overall height vs bindings flat on the board. I set the bindings at 0 degrees and mounted them on the center of the rear insert pack to try get more consistent results. When I tipped the board over, I pushed and bent the sidecut to mimic a turn. Next I leaned the board over on edge as far as possible, each time I did this I went until the heel of the boot just touched the floor. I wasn't able to get my boots perfectly centered in the bindings, the boots 'stuck out' a bit more on the heel edge, so I only measured heel side turns with the angle finder. The angle finder was placed on the floor and the base of the board, which I think is quite accurate. I did this test for two board, a Pogo Long board 180 and a Swoard Dual 175. Here are the equipment specs: Dual - 175cm long, 10.5m SCR, 27cm waist width, KEY - 27.8cm wide at the center of the rear insert pack. Pogo Long board - 180cm long, 8m variable SCR, 25.3cm waist width, KEY - 26.7cm wide at the center of the rear insert pack Boots - I measured my K2-T1 boots, heel to toe, with a carpenters square. When measured this way they are 31.5cm long, they are Mondo Point 29 or size 11. Lean Angle Results: The Pogo with no plates, bindings flat on the board, could be tipped on the heel edge to a 40 degree angle. The Pogo with the 1.5cm high Apex Gecko, could be tipped on the heel edge to a 60 degree angle. The Dual with no plates, bindings flat on the board, could be tipped on the heel edge to a 48 degree angle. The Dual with the 1.5cm high Apex Gecko, could be tipped on the heel edge to a 68 degree angle. Using the Gecko plate simply as a riser gets you about 20 degrees more lean before boot out, this is huge IMHO! Add to this the way the Gecko smooth's out the ride and you have a pretty cool product! It also appears that 1cm of board width gets you about 8 degrees more lean before boot out. I wish that board manufactures would list the board width at the center of the rear insert pack as variable SCR and different amounts of taper have such a bit affect on board width where it counts, at the back foot! One of the things that I really like about the Gecko plates was how they smoothed out the ride and made a glass board feel much more damp, 'similar' to a metal Apline board. Henry of Apex explained to me that some guys really like a hard, connected feel. Others don't like the vibration and want some dampening. I found I preferred the softest bumpers and a ride that is damp and smooth. I felt completely connected to my board with the softest Gecko bumpers, so this was an easy decision for me. I realize that riders often want their ride as low as possible, which I completely understand. At the same time, I find I just get used to a ride that is a bit higher, this trade off is more than worth it to not get boot out when carving! The Stealth's are light weight, so I am convinced they will maintain the nimble and light feeling you get with softboots in general ... particularly in powder. Looking forward to comparing notes when the snow flies:) Hope this helps a bit! Cheers Rob Edited October 30, 2016 by RCrobar 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmetroland Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Thanks for the reporting! One question though; what's your boot size? Depending on manufacturer, I'm somewhere in the 12-13 range... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCrobar Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Hello Mr Metroland I edited my post to include that my boots are Mondo Point 29, size 11. Size 12 to 13 are some serious land packers:) I guess you would need a board with a 28cm waist width, some risers, a SCR that flares out at the tail and a bit of rear foot stance angle to really be able to lean your board over. I have a 193 Dupraz with a 28.5cm waist, I can ride it flat on the board with no risers and I don't get any boot out. I should mention that I am running about 9 degrees on my back foot, pretty flat by alpine standards. Cheers Rob PS - love your posts over the years, you constantly have me chuckling at the keyboard:) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svr Posted October 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Rob, That is a great write up and explanation. Pics look great ?. I find that I like usually like the hard and more connected feel, so it will be interesting to try my setup with both the soft and hard delrin bumpers. I have spoken to Henry at Apex in the past about binding setups for Freeriding and boarder cross right before the geckos were released and he was very happy to share thoughts and suggestions for making a better ride setup tailored to different riders styles and preferences. I cannot wait to get my geckos and get out on the snow ❄️ with them as that is what really matters most. Thanks for sharing the measurements as I think 20 degrees is a huge jump and should make the geckos well worth the price for that alone. The ability to customize the dampening effects is a bonus. I will post pics of my setup once the plates arrive. cheers, sandy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmetroland Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 7 hours ago, RCrobar said: Size 12 to 13 are some serious land packers. I guess you would need a board with a 28cm waist width, some risers, a SCR that flares out at the tail and a bit of rear foot stance angle to really be able to lean your board over. Landpackers, indeed. I never knew such a thing as "foot envy" existed until I started snowboarding. My custom board is 28.7 and I still couldn't ride a rear flat angle with it. I've got a couple pairs of FR2s and a pair of Flows mounted on Power Plates. Both give quite a bit of clearance but there's a weight penalty that's especially punishing at the end of a day full of long lift rides, especially since they're mounted to big, burly boards. Maybe the Stealths are something to think about? I'm experimenting with an all-mountain hardboot setup so that's featured science project for the year. Thanks to you and Sandy for keeping this thread alive! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svr Posted November 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 So my Geckos arrived and I mounted them on my narrowest tanker and thought I would share my initial thoughts and some photos. First off, the plates are simple and impressive right out of the box, very simple to mount and feel very well connected (when floor surfing ?)! The hard delrin bumpers are Very Hard and it will be interesting to compare the ride between them and the medium bumpers as they are significantly different. I decided not to take measurements and will let the pics speak for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svr Posted November 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 Side views... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svr Posted November 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 Toe side boot out point... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svr Posted November 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 Heel side boot out point... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmetroland Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 Sadly, I'm pretty sure you're not going to like it. You should save yourself the anguish and sell the Tanker to me... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svr Posted November 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2016 (edited) Lordmetroland, I was so "not impressed" that I ordered another set so that I can have a Tanker ready for any conditions by having one setup with hard bumpers and one setup with medium bumpers. cheers, Sandy Edited November 5, 2016 by svr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmetroland Posted November 5, 2016 Report Share Posted November 5, 2016 That Jedi mind trick doesn't work on my daughters either... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svr Posted November 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2016 Doesn't work on my son either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRAZZ Posted November 26, 2016 Report Share Posted November 26, 2016 So I guess I'm an accidental Flow rider.... Found a pair for $30 in a local used gear shop (NX2). I honestly had no idea what I was getting, I was just looking for a cheap pair to with my cheap(er) board. Pros (in nice bulleted form): Stiff. Responsive. Like! They do a nice job of bending my relatively stiff Steepwater. No heeloop - no heeldrag. (now if I could carve low enough...) Nice heel sticktivity. Seems to me that the lack of heel loop aids in keeping the boot in place and the heel in the boot in place. Easy to get in and out (after the requisite sliding backwards learning period). Comfortable (seriously, once you dial it in it is) minus the hybrid straps - see cons. Lots and lots of adjustibilitivity. Cons (slightly less nice bulleted form) Lots and lots of adjustibilitivity (just as many chances of getting it wrong as getting it right) Friggin hybrid straps. At 30 bucks, I shouldn't really complain but if you buy them new with the hybrid straps you are not of the intelligent persuasion. You can swap left to right which only slightly eases the stinkiness and leave them slightly loose which doesn't help and really defeats the purpose. Right now they compress my boot just enough to make my toes touch. I can go on but I think you get the gist of my feelings towards the $#$% hybrid straps. Just yesterday I had a couple of loops on our local rock hill (called Eldora - it gets snow, sometimes) with my skier daughter (the other one is a snowboarder so I didn't fail completely) and I was able to bind in before she could put her hands through the ski pole loops. Win! Add to that the responsiveness and comfort - double win! I usually read about these people who find cheap stuff that turns out great - never thought I'd be one of them*. picture for illustration * Except the friggin hybrid strap. Seriously, this is probably the reason I found them for $30 in a used equipment store. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted November 26, 2016 Report Share Posted November 26, 2016 Nice Steepwater? How do you like it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svr Posted November 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2016 (edited) Erazz, I am a huge fan of the fusion straps and went for them as I had heard many similar cons to what you experienced. here are my two primary setups for this winter. at first look everything appears the same, but they are completely different setups: first is a rockered tanker with hard .5 cm bushing Apex Gecko Stealth risers. second is a prototype rocker-camber-rocker tanker with medium 1.0 cm bushing Apex Gecko Stealth risers. hope to get somewhere to go ride soon...pray for snow and remember that size matters, go big because speed is your friend ???❄️️ Edited November 26, 2016 by svr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRAZZ Posted November 27, 2016 Report Share Posted November 27, 2016 4 hours ago, www.oldsnowboards.com said: Nice Steepwater? How do you like it? Last year I rode it with hardboots. It was OK but I felt I wasn't getting what I wanted out of it. Once I put the flows on it and used my softboots it just became awesome! I love how stable it is at speeds. It's really damp and likes to "go". The Flows allows me to put the edge in and hold. I'm still discovering what the board can do and happy with it :) svr, What do the risers do? Improve ability to transfer power to the edge? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svr Posted November 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2016 (edited) Erazz, the plates give me lift so that I don't get toe or heel drag when carving and they also allow the board to have some isolation/dampening. cheers, sandy Edited November 27, 2016 by svr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svr Posted November 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 (edited) So for all the discussion on Softboot risers/plates , I decided to do some comparison for the sake of discussion. This is only to highlight the weight difference as these products all have very different performance characteristics. Bomber Power Plates (2.8 cm, w BP lowers 2.2 cm lift): 3 lbs (1361 grams), w BP lowers 2.5 lbs (1134 grams) * Bomber does not recommend using the Boiler Plate bottoms on a regular board, but I have and they do work, but they place extra stress on the inserts.* Donek BX Riser Plates (1.25 cm lift): 1.7 lbs (781 grams). Apex Gecko Stealth (hard bumpers 1.0 cm, w medium bumpers 1.5 cm lift): 1.41 lbs (640 grams), 1.42 lbs (644 grams with medium bumpers). Palmer PLS Flex (1.0 cm lift) 1.28 lbs (581 grams). Edited November 28, 2016 by svr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLN Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 Quote Do you guys think that fusion straps are better then hybrid? I've asked this on other forum before and got opposite opinion: Hybrid>Fusion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svr Posted December 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 TLN, I am not a fan of the Hybrid strap as it can be very temperamental. For me, the Fusion strap is the way to go. cheers, sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRAZZ Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Hey guys, quick Flow question... What forward lean do you have on the highbacks? It seems to me that having forward lean on the rear makes stepping in and out harder than without lean. However the carve performance really suffers. Suck it up and lean forward or give in to comfort? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svr Posted January 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Erazz, I have the forward lean on both bindings maxed out as I like a lot of forward lean. It does make entry a little harder, but still doable. cheers, sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRAZZ Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 I was afraid you might say that However, decided to give it a try and yes, fully cranked it is better. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svr Posted January 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) There was some concern about Flow going out of business on another forumn, but the good news is they were bought by Nidecker and next year will see expansion of their bindings under both Flow and Nidecker. http://www.grindtv.com/transworld-business/flow-sports-inc-has-been-acquired-by-nidecker-group/ attached pics are from pre-season product demo in France (sorry all Softboot gear) https://whitelines.com/snowboard-gear/news-previews/2017-2018-snowboard-product-preview-avant-premiere.html Flow 2017-2018 Cataloge: https://issuu.com/actionsportagency/docs/flow_2017-18_dealer-catalog__digita Edited January 19, 2017 by svr 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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