jtdds Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Tracks speak to outcome more so than to process. As such, a clean track doesn't say all that much about how a rider is getting the job done, or whether that rider has realized their potential. A ragged track, on the other hand, has use. One could surmise that if he knows his preference as to flex/flex, he has a creative means of dealing with a less than optimal ratio. The video (not a critique): You probably notice that the toeside turns are longer in duration and hook harder, whereas the heel side turns break off sooner, and don't hook nearly as hard, if at all. More 'speed' is dumped on the toeside turn, as to attempt the same on the heel side will likely result in 'chatter' (making an assumption as to one possible definition of 'chatter'). Also note some of the 'speed wobble' on a few of the heel side turns; a reasonably good indicator that the board is not always running true on account of torsional distortion. A torsionally stiff board removes one variable from the equation so the skilled rider can direct the focus elsewhere. So... dynamic carving on bx or free ride board assuming either soft or hard the binding angles for optimal mechanics are.... Good assumptions on both counts. A. Riding a negative angle on the back foot is a good way to prevent a full, rebound driven, elastic sweep of the board through a heel side turn. Consider that in order to do so, the pressure wave under the board needs to move from the tip right through to (and out of) the tail. With a negative rear foot angle, the wave stalls under the rear heel, somewhere near the mid length of the board. Any energy remaining in the system needs to go somewhere, so if the rider hangs on to the edge too long, the snow under the edge will probably blow out as the load spikes, leading to 'chatter'. B. If the highbacks are not set 'correctly' the board will most likely twist while on edge, and/or, the rider will not be in a good position to 'work' the board, on account of lost ROM or excess muscle tension. (In the event you don't already realize this, a board 'twisted in the cut' is trying to make a turn of two different radii simultaneously.) Good for yarding a marlin over the transom, not so much for effective 'dynamic' carving. All other adjustments being effective, you might try setting them up as follows: Standing evenly weighted on both feet, with your hips in line with (perpendicular to) your front foot, rock lightly back to feel contact under your heels. At the moment of firm but not excessive heel contact, you should feel the support from both front and rear highback at the same time. This is a baseline for sensible stance angles and widths. May not be valid in all sales territories. Season to taste. So... Dynamic carving on unidirectional bx or freeride board. Assuming soft or hard, address binding angles for optimal mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichNH Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 I don't say much here...I ride Hardboots. Softboots. Rode Killington daily when I went to Castleton State in the 90's. Plenty of amazing riders in those days on both. I have nothing bad to say about either binding set up. I love to read posts from our friends in Colorado. It would be such a loss to lose those posts. Spread love and not hate. Carving on the gear of your choice is all that matters. This community is so small there is room for everyone who has realized the greatness of carving a snowboard. Not for nothing but our friend in Aspen is one of the most inspirational and kind people on this site, and I have not met him. However I know of him. Who can say anything of the surfers who defined modern surfing, who rode waves never before touched. Respect and keep on riding the surf and the snow. Nothing less than inspirational and a role model :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeho730 Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) I believe that people should have fun no matter the gear. And a few years back I argued for softboot carving. But some gears are clearly better than others for some purposes. Like for example... If someone wants to do half pipes or slope style stuffs with hardboots I'd say go for softboots, because softboots are better for it. Also because great riders like Shaun White rock on half pipes and kickers with softboot gears. But am I dissing hardbooters? No, I'm just stating the fact... I can extremecarve on softboots, but the ideal gear for that would be hardboots. And if your local community consists of elitist pricks Bart... My condolence. Maybe I should've included the following line on my previous post: "Why not try softened hardboots...?" So that my post wouldn't sound condescending... Bummer. So no disrespect to you, Bart... Just curious why you've chosen softboots. Edited January 10, 2014 by leeho730 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Tracks speak to outcome more so than to process. As such, a clean track doesn't say all that much about how a rider is getting the job done, or whether that rider has realized their potential. A ragged track, on the other hand, has use. With all due Respect Mr. Beckman, Interesting Perspective... Edited January 10, 2014 by softbootsailer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 With all due Respect Mr. Beckman, Interesting Perspective... B.AG often talks in riddles, but essence is there. I wish, he left less space for misunderstanding, but it is what it is... --- Bart does great job on softies. If that's his weapon of choice right now - more power to him. He'll get hard again, when the circumstances are right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdds Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 So... dynamic carving on bx or free ride board assuming either soft or hard the binding angles for optimal mechanics are.... Good assumptions on both counts. A. Riding a negative angle on the back foot is a good way to prevent a full, rebound driven, elastic sweep of the board through a heel side turn. Consider that in order to do so, the pressure wave under the board needs to move from the tip right through to (and out of) the tail. With a negative rear foot angle, the wave stalls under the rear heel, somewhere near the mid length of the board. Any energy remaining in the system needs to go somewhere, so if the rider hangs on to the edge too long, the snow under the edge will probably blow out as the load spikes, leading to 'chatter'. B. If the highbacks are not set 'correctly' the board will most likely twist while on edge, and/or, the rider will not be in a good position to 'work' the board, on account of lost ROM or excess muscle tension. (In the event you don't already realize this, a board 'twisted in the cut' is trying to make a turn of two different radii simultaneously.) All other adjustments being effective, you might try setting them up as follows: Standing evenly weighted on both feet, with your hips in line with (perpendicular to) your front foot, rock lightly back to feel contact under your heels. At the moment of firm but not excessive heel contact, you should feel the support from both front and rear highback at the same time. This is a baseline for sensible stance angles and widths. May not be valid in all sales territories. Season to taste. So... Dynamic carving on unidirectional bx or freeride board. Assuming soft or hard, address binding angles for optimal mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 I don't even understand what you are trying to ask? What part is B.AG's text, and what part your question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 I wish, he left less space for misunderstanding, but it is what it is... Alpinesport and all it entails isn't UXB disposal. We have room for some 'creativity'. The 'space' is there to allow for interpretation and thinking on the part of the reader. You've been involved in the education process long enough to know that often, when you provide a 'pat' answer to a question, the mind doesn't always retain what it receives. Besides, beyond satisfying a basic need, spoon feeding is hardly rewarding for either party. When the recipient of information has to take even a moment to think and assemble the parts of an answer, that tends to embed that information. Those bits and pieces may then prove useful in the future, in ways not anticipated. When in doubt, ask for clarification. Clients & co-workers do, and productive discussions result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 So... dynamic carving on bx or free ride board assuming either soft or hard the binding angles for optimal mechanics are.... Determined by the size of a riders foot, the mobility of their joints, the conformation of the lower extremities, the width of the board, and how many compromises they want to involve in the course of their daily riding. And perhaps a few players to be named later. There isn't one simple answer. No one setup is good for everything/everybody. Binding angles are a balance between finesse and power. What you gain in one area, you lose in the other. More than enough of either is too much. More details. See also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 No one setup is good for everything/everybody. NOOOOooooooo! Say it isn't so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 ...long enough to know... I know and agree. But... we live in a society where everything is spoon fed and not everyone is prepared/able to dig deeper then surface... When I have a client for an hour, it is almost too short to even figure out what kind of learner is he, thus straight to the point aproach is preferred. On the other hand, on the internet forums... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 But... we live in a society where everything is spoon fed and not everyone is prepared/able to dig deeper then surface... Alas, "there is no spoon..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xy9ine Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 i'm starting to think about getting back on softboots. our (local) relatively tight & busy terrain isn't optimum for big fast arcs (spend way too much time being stressed about getting t-boned on the alpine deck); and i'm also splitting time with the kidlets, so a more 'casual' setup may better fit the bill. I had a fantastic day last winter on a ('high performance') rental softboot setup (with appropriate carve friendly angles) and was impressed with how capable & fun it was. approaching conventional gear with newly learned carving technique was eye opening. i also like the public perception angle; carving technique on conventional gear could perhaps make we alpinists a bit less of a circus sideshow. kind of a gateway drug to higher performance hardware. anyways... time to scour cl for some driver-x's or malamutes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc H Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) Let's have a poll; Ban softbootsailor. He or she is obviously on the wrong forum. Maybe he/she should try TGR's BBS. Seems like he/she was picked on by jocks & nerds in high school. No clue what he's talking about; never met Beckmann nor understands him. And yes Mr. Beckmann; I did jack my gloves from the garbage man! Good too see ya again. Was wicked funny watching you teaching at the RMV with one boot clipped in. I was LMAO in the Widow maker as you were teaching a newb on softies. Edited February 18, 2014 by Marc Hall Spelling and or misconduct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 i'm starting to think about getting back on softboots. Sissy! Just kidding... Whatever rocks your boat... But honnestly, I think you are making a mistake. You are already used to hard shells. The trick is to have the benefits of those and optimise your setup for what you wanted to do... Nice soft hard boot, like UPZ ATB, or some of the older Raichles with Vibram soles, or some AT ski boots, soft plastic base bindings - F2 Carve RS, Raceplates, a narrower freeride board, or wide alpine board (you do have an ATV, do you?) would give you all freedom of the movement you might want. Plus, you'll still carve a nicer line on cord AND you'd be able to hop onto the skis with your kids, without changing the boots... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtslalom Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I don't see the need to switch to softies unless you want to get serious about tricks or if you get a lot of powder... By Jack Michaud That's one of the reasons I switched back but I'm not so serious. Hardboots allow better carving on steeper and/or icier terrain. Also by Jack Michaud NO Jack. Here is where you are wrong. A good rider on hardboots can carve on steeper and/or icier terrain and so can a good rider on softboots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Let's have a poll; Ban softbootsailor. He or she is obviously on the wrong forum. Maybe he/she should try TGR's BBS. Seems like he/she was picked on by jocks & nerds in high school. No clue what he's talking about; never met Beckmann nor understands him. Thanks Marc... Let Me Add here however...Lines in the Snow left by Edges, be they from Ski or Board tell a tale...here in Aspen, in the Land of Hero Snow, that Line is well defined and easily Read by someone experienced in the Language....:) Edited February 19, 2014 by softbootsailer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeho730 Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Personally I'd give the argument which says that softboots can be as good as hardboots in carving on steeper and icier terrain more credit if any softbooter win bronze at PGS/PS olympic events. There is no doubt that softboots are better in powder, slopestyle, BX and half pipes... And hardboot equipments are better at race carving and carving in general. It's not about being an elitist, it's about merely stating a fact. For example if someone says "hardbooters can be as good as softbooters in half pipes and BX" I'd say "Yeah right mate who wins in Olympics?" Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtslalom Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 I don't think many riders will disagree that hard riding on plate bindings, hard boots and race/carve boards is better than soft boot riding on ice. What I will strongly argue is that riding ice is dependent on who is riding. Barring any pro or even amateur racer, i have seen hard booters that completely lose it on ice. A matter of fact i have seen more hard booters that can't ride icy slopes than i have seen can ride icy slopes. I have seen even less soft riders that can ride icy slopes. Which ever board one rides on icy steep slopes it is ALL dependent on the rider and not so much the equipment. I have carved down the same icy steep slopes on my soft gear as i have on my hard gear. Once again riding is not based on the gear but rather the rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Once again riding is not based on the gear but rather the rider. Bah...loney. Ah, but these threads go forever... everyone trying to justify their choices in life, in gear, etc. Wake me when it's over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc H Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Well a few of my buddies ride soft boots and they can ride just about every condition besides ice. They can EC just as good as any hardbooter when conditions are right. I choose to ride HB's cause I live in the Northeast and find that I have more fun and ability on alpine setup considering where I ride. But god bless we get a pow day; I'll be on my soft boot set up. Last Friday was a softie day @ the Loaf; soft boot day! Justifies my purchasing the gear. And too SoftieBootsailor; don't take it personal but I feel compelled to crap on ya when you say ignorant stuff considering your on an alpine dedicated forum and Sh!t on alpine riding. Don't get my wrong; I'm not an elitist; I'm far from good at alpine or soft boots. I just have way more fun on alpine. Do you even have an alpine setup? If not why are you on here? Are YOU trying to be an elitist yourself? Flame War OVA. Edited February 20, 2014 by Marc Hall Hooked on Phonics didn't work for me. Hooked on chronic did though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big mario Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) Do you even have an alpine setup? If not why are you on here? Are YOU trying to be an elitist yourself? He does, 3 strap. The stoke and carving, would be my guess, no matter what the conveyance. Having had a few beers with him, I seriously doubt it mario Edited February 21, 2014 by big mario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvingchef Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Bomber Carving Community Welcome to the Bomber Carving Community. I just checked the site again to make sure and it still says "Bomber Carving Community" it doesn't say "Bomber hardbooting Community" I ride both, it's good to know I'm still allowed here on those days I ride on softboots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmartshopper Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Nice post OP, and great turns. It's a testament to how interesting and well received your post was that it took a full 21 replies before the thread got the obligatory hijack by someone out to teach the world that softboots carve as well as hardboots. fwiw, I personally enjoy the best of both worlds. On the one hand - I understand physics. Then on the other hand, I ride softboots anyway because I just like too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 NO Jack. Here is where you are wrong. A good rider on hardboots can carve on steeper and/or icier terrain and so can a good rider on softboots. Did you see any softboots in the Olympic PGS/PSL? No? I didn't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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