nekdut Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Okay, this gem was part of the snow report today: The downhill skier has the right-of-way, ONLY when skiing fall-line. That sounds awfully like only straightliners have the right of way. Thoughts? Mammoth snow report by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 the only time the downhill skier does not have the right of way is if they are entering the trail or starting from a stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 WHat kind of crap is that? They can not rewrite the internationally accepted Code. We should swamp them with emails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 The problem with this one is going to be defining "fall-line": If someone is making quick back and forth skidded turns is that still following the fall-line? If someone is traversing the hill to get to the other side where there buddy is, have they just lost there right of way? Even though I am making turns but my over-all path is down the fall-line, does that count? It goes on and on. VERY hard to define. Much easier to comprehend "down hill skier has right of way" Well, at least you would think so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Your lift ticket/pass releases the ski area. So your issue will be defining this between you the other party and the courts. It was once described to me as very similar to auto insurance and it's rules. If you are in an accident, better hope your coverage is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algunderfoot Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Having rode at Mammoth on a January weekend, the code is far from the top of thier priority list. Best have your head on a swivel and assume a general lack of respect. Besides the best Southern Cal carving 35 minutes up the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 the only time the downhill skier does not have the right of way is if they are entering the trail or starting from a stop. Jack, when I am 'overtaking' you, I am responsible for avoiding you regardless of your velocity or point/rate of trail entry. The first line of the code reads 'ski in control or in such a way as to avoid other skiers or objects in front of you', or something to that effect. It's not terribly ambiguous. Of course, given all the bananas, canoes and twin tips, and the behavior they engender, the lawyers could have a bit of sport with what constitutes 'in front of'. O/P, Any text/spoken word with origins in marketing is naturally suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltie Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Neil, Interesting you should post this today. Was at Mammoth with my family today. You are right they must have the code incorrect or must have been be brainwashing those on the mountain today. Was over by Canyon Lodge and watched my 5 year old almost get run over several times. He was side slipping down the fall line most of the time. I ended having to provide a human shield and slide slip behind him. So much for the down hill skier/boarder having the right of way. They need snow here bad! Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Neil, Interesting you should post this today. Was at Mammoth with my family today. You are right they must have the code incorrect or must have been be brainwashing those on the mountain today. Was over by Canyon Lodge and watched my 5 year old almost get run over several times. He was side slipping down the fall line most of the time. I ended having to provide a human shield and slide slip behind him. So much for the down hill skier/boarder having the right of way. They need snow here bad! Tom Boy, I feel for you Moms and Dads with young sliders. I make a concerted effort to give plenty of clearance. Papa/Mama Bears are not to be triffled with. I know I would rip their head off and sht down the hole if they hurt my child. (Just for the record I do not have children, but you get the idea) In fact I see that time families have together to play as something very special and I try not to interfere or disrupt their "moment" if at all possible. Ride on. Safely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobD Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 The downhill skier has the right-of-way, ONLY when skiing fall-line. That would also be at odds with the way skiing is taught these days with various forms of direct to parallel - turn to control speed and for beginners; turn to a stop. Unless the ski school is very out of date, two departments are giving very conflicting advise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveBomber Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 I guess that is the liberal version... "The downhill skier...." ".....Im a skier and im going down hill...." "so I have right of way.... yeah of course, duh...." How about they say "don't hit the people a head of you" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekdut Posted December 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 How about they say "don't hit the people a head of you" The used to, but for some reason Marketing changed it for today's snow report, which is why I am concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveBomber Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 how about we develop a proximity sensor conected to strobes and and air horn... maybe and air bag too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekdut Posted December 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 It would be great if we lived in a less litigious society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveBomber Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 It would be great if we lived in a less litigious society. I know, I'd rather beat the hell out of someone, when they deserve it and call it good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 OK, it's not well put, and really just a license for the Patrol to behave arbitrarily, but it's also really an alarm bell for us, and we should take it seriously. If we just rely on our downhill position to hammer big arcs back and forth without concern for the overall temper of the hill and the crowd, we're going to be pariahs and deservedly so. There's just no way for a skier without experience of watching it to understand how sharply a hardbooter can turn, and how quickly he's going to slingshot from over there to RIGHT HERE. On top of which, between a skier working some kind of linked turns down the fall line and a snowboard blasting across it, the closing rate is just crazy. If there's any kind of crowd, or any tendency for skiers (or softbooters) to be making 11s down a slope, then we need to be looking up the hill and especially behind us before changing edges, and we need to narrow down the amount of slope we devour. What's behind us now is going to be dropping on us after the next turn. It's different if there's a posse making a predictable pattern. In that case, people will know that there's no slope available and not try to blast past. One or two guys dueling down an open slope, though, can be almost impossible to get by safely if they're oblivious. We have a right to not get knocked over, but don't have a right to call a halt to all the other traffic on the trail, because we can't be passed in safety. Sucks, but anything else is unrealistic and dangerous. The more people see us as the extreme limit of the beauty and power available on snow, rather than an unattainable, incomprehensible and arrogant nuisance, the sooner they'll venture onto hardboots themselves, and the more welcome we'll be as what we are - the coolest thing on the hill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Jack, when I am 'overtaking' you, I am responsible for avoiding you regardless of your velocity or point/rate of trail entry. The first line of the code reads 'ski in control or in such a way as to avoid other skiers or objects in front of you', or something to that effect. It's not terribly ambiguous. "Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and yield to others." http://www.nsaa.org/nsaa/safety/heads_up/know_the_code.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantheman0177 Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 I don't think it's that difficult, it's just that it's been drafted by lawyers to be appropriately vague. Would be much simpler to just state: "If you collide with a person who is/was below you in altitude (ie: downhill / down the hill) then you are at fault." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 There's just no way for a skier without experience of watching it to understand how sharply a hardbooter can turn, and how quickly he's going to slingshot from over there to RIGHT HERE.. That describes 3 -year olds on a playgound walking in front of the swingset perfectly. I remember a kid who kept doing it; I told him several times what might happen, dragged him out of the way, but the next time it did happen and he got slammed into. I think he figured it out. The same thing happens at skateparks, where lines cross. It takes new riders a while to figure it out. The responsible ones take that time, sit back, and watch. The idiots just drop in and get slammed, then become responsible. Since skiers/riders aren't usually 3-year olds, they actually do understand the principle; but they need to act on that and WATCH the action until they've got a sense for what's going on. But that's unfortunately not part of the culture, to the extent there is one. Ski areas could do a lot more in this regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 I have no love for Mammoth Mt. crowded, bad food, expensive lift tickets, lodging is not very convenient.... wet cement snow from Pineapple Express storms. Someone got run over by a groomer that was grooming uphill on a crowded trail last year.. they lost their leg. I don't like Mammoth..and I like having two legs. I will never return to Mammoth. Mammoth's change to the skier responsibility code means if you turn it is your responsibility to look both uphill and downhill at the same time. That makes you less aware of skiers below you...and more likely to cause an accident. Ever hear the term "look where you are going"? I ...personally... do look both ways... because I don't trust other uphill skiers..particularly teens that are pissed that a grey haired guy is making them look like they can't ride in front of their girlfriend. But I think a lot of beginning carvers are safer spending all of their attention looking where they are going and certainly not looking behind them when the trees are so close to the edges of the trail. Once again, Mammoth makes poor decisions. Go to Aspen instead... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loc Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 I have no love for Mammoth Mt. crowded, bad food, expensive lift tickets, lodging is not very convenient.... wet cement snow from Pineapple Express storms. Someone got run over by a groomer that was grooming uphill on a crowded trail last year.. they lost their leg.I don't like Mammoth..and I like having two legs. I will never return to Mammoth. Mammoth's change to the skier responsibility code means if you turn it is your responsibility to look both uphill and downhill at the same time. That makes you less aware of skiers below you...and more likely to cause an accident. Ever hear the term "look where you are going"? I ...personally... do look both ways... because I don't trust other uphill skiers..particularly teens that are pissed that a grey haired guy is making them look like they can't ride in front of their girlfriend. But I think a lot of beginning carvers are safer spending all of their attention looking where they are going and certainly not looking behind them when the trees are so close to the edges of the trail. Once again, Mammoth makes poor decisions. Go to Aspen instead... +1 I've mostly given up on carving at Mammoth unless I get to Chair 2 on the first few chairs or I'm there on weekdays. June Mountain is where you can get your carve on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 I don't think it's that difficult, it's just that it's been drafted by lawyers to be appropriately vague. Would be much simpler to just state:"If you collide with a person who is/was below you in altitude (ie: downhill / down the hill) then you are at fault." Except that's not always true. (post 17) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Ride in groups and make sure everyone rides the same line. Six carvers running over the same person can't be all wrong !:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 OK, it's not well put, and really just a license for the Patrol to behave arbitrarily, but it's also really an alarm bell for us, and we should take it seriously.If we just rely on our downhill position to hammer big arcs back and forth without concern for the overall temper of the hill and the crowd, we're going to be pariahs and deservedly so. There's just no way for a skier without experience of watching it to understand how sharply a hardbooter can turn, and how quickly he's going to slingshot from over there to RIGHT HERE. On top of which, between a skier working some kind of linked turns down the fall line and a snowboard blasting across it, the closing rate is just crazy. If there's any kind of crowd, or any tendency for skiers (or softbooters) to be making 11s down a slope, then we need to be looking up the hill and especially behind us before changing edges, and we need to narrow down the amount of slope we devour. What's behind us now is going to be dropping on us after the next turn. It's different if there's a posse making a predictable pattern. In that case, people will know that there's no slope available and not try to blast past. One or two guys dueling down an open slope, though, can be almost impossible to get by safely if they're oblivious. We have a right to not get knocked over, but don't have a right to call a halt to all the other traffic on the trail, because we can't be passed in safety. Sucks, but anything else is unrealistic and dangerous. The more people see us as the extreme limit of the beauty and power available on snow, rather than an unattainable, incomprehensible and arrogant nuisance, the sooner they'll venture onto hardboots themselves, and the more welcome we'll be as what we are - the coolest thing on the hill. Good post. However, we've discussed that toppic to eath, on several ocasions... The point of this thread is something completely else (in my mind at least): Ski areas should not start changing the Code that has been well thought and put together over few 100 years of experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ear dragger Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 its bad enough most people don't pay attention to thier surroundings. but when the code is written differently or there is a difference from one mountain to another, alpine becomes very dangerous for the rider. when there tends to be some more traffic (always variables), it tells me to not finish my turns and keep some more downhill speed. I'm not suggesting to stop carving, but the carver who totally finishes each turn is in much greater danger of being hit. It is tough to stay on the subject of the code, when in the end it points to how one must conduct his/herself on the hill. bottom line is get low, and carve hard! nearly all other people on the hill are heading down the hill at a faster rate than we are, so... we sleep in the bed we made. good subject Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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