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Why aren't you riding newer gear?


trailertrash

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You don't think so? Not even a little bit? Admittedly, my statement was a bit OTT, but something of that sort feels pretty much like a constant undercurrent to me. This might be a culture clash thing, of course, "two countries separated by a common language" and all that.

I don't. I think this is your perception as a guy who shows up on old equipment. I think it is common in any sport. We already talked about it as "reverse snobbery".

Remember, my intention was to talk about newer equipment. Newer than 10 yrs old. Not new every year equipment.

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You don't think so? Not even a little bit?

The way you described it? Absolutely not.

I can't speak for France, but on this forum, the perception of any actual metal snobbery exists only in the minds of overly-sensitive people, as far as I can tell. There is nothing elitist about stating facts like a new car performs better than an old car.

Admittedly, my statement was a bit OTT, but something of that sort feels pretty much like a constant undercurrent to me. This might be a culture clash thing, of course, "two countries separated by a common language" and all that.

There is some incredulity at people who, for example, walk up to the demo tent, ask for a pair of TD3s, and then proceed to try to mount them to a 1992 PJ6 (that happened at ECES). That makes no sense. Otherwise, I see it as people who have been bitten by the metal bug wanting others to experience the same joy.

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You don't think so? Not even a little bit? Admittedly, my statement was a bit OTT, but something of that sort feels pretty much like a constant undercurrent to me. This might be a culture clash thing, of course, "two countries separated by a common language" and all that.

I've not seen it.... on the hills.

in the forums, yea

I've seen peeps here hate on budget minded folks trying stay in *or* get into hardbooting.

to a few, they may as well be a dreaded 'softbooter' :(

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There is nothing elitist about stating facts like a new car performs better than an old car.... people who have been bitten by the metal bug wanting others to experience the same joy.

understood & absolutely nothing wrong with that.

But, telling some poor sole he is a knuckle dragging idiot because he's not skipping what might be to him an entire season, two or three's lift ticket budget to get on a metal board is bs that I think is a detriment to any 'growth' in hardbooting

(not You Jack, I'm just using your post as a springboard... but I've seen a post or two by a few regulars here in the past)

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But, telling some poor sole he is a knuckle dragging idiot

I haven't seen that (not that I read every post - far from it) and it would be against forum rules.

because he's not skipping what might be to him an entire season, two or three's lift ticket budget to get on a metal board

umm, I think I can decipher that.

is bs that I think is a detriment to any 'growth' in hardbooting

(not You Jack, I'm just using your post as a springboard... but I've seen a post or two by a few regulars here in the past)

links please.

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Locally, I'm lucky to be able to ride with a large community of hard booters. As I've watched people who have gone from older boards to the new ones, I can definitely say, the difference is clearly visible. Everyone on new boards is riding better, and some have almost instantly taken their riding to much higher levels. I think for novice, and intermediate riders, the confidence the new boards imbue, allows people to concentrate on improving technique, rather than just surviving each turn. For the better riders, the boards have broadened the range of conditions where riding an alpine board is fun. In fact I'm riding my old boards less now, because I see what I'm missing out on. I will be riding more next season when I get a new school board.

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Sorry John, but you're so far off the money here it's not even funny. I saw a guy today on an old F2 (and I do mean old - the base had the "fun and function" logo) who was doing stuff I can't even dream of, and which approached caspercarver levels of what-the-****ery. It was truly beautiful to watch. The guy himself was in his late 50s.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. It's not what you ride, it's how you ride.

Nobody's claiming that the newer boards aren't significantly better (not to mention, probably less "ridden out") than the older stuff, but they aren't, at least to the majority of people I know, $600-$2000 better.

If I was to go out today and buy a brand new alpine board, I'd be dropping what amounts to the better part of a month's rent for most people round here. In my case, it would be getting on for 6 month's worth of mortgage payments, but I only have a small mortgage. And that would be for something little better than what I already have. To go to something "serious", I'd be looking at 3 to 4 months rent (or, for me, a year's mortgage payments). In a world where a significant number of people have trouble "joining the two ends" at the end of the month - well - you get the idea.

As I see it, snowboarding itself is in danger of collapsing on itself, imploding under the weight of park-style-fashion-wank NAB*s encouraged / imposed by the "business" side of things. Freecarving is something that could attract a significant part of the snowboarding public, if only they knew it was an option. But no, alpine is alpine, it's exclusive, and if you haven't got a metal board that's worth more than a small car, you can **** off out of our club. That attitude is worse than anything you'll find in the park - at least there you'll only get snubbed by 50% of the other rats for having last year's hat.

Think back to your youth. Think about all those cool sports cars you would have loved to have when you were 17, but couldn't afford to run. Who is the majority that can afford to drive those cars now? It's not "cool 17 year olds", it's "paunchy, balding, middle aged accountants". They are usually divorced. Wanna be seen as that? To a lot of people, that's how alpine looks today.

It doesn't matter what you ride. Just go out and ride. Carve trenches. Show the skidders what it's all about (literally - chat with them, explain to them on the lifts, take the time to show them how to do the norm, point them to rental shops that still have carveable gear - don't tell them their gear is inferior, don't be an *******). Above all, though, have fun. Whatever you're riding, that's what it's about.

* NAB = "Nain a Bonnet" (literally, "dwarf in a bobble-hat") - the "park classic" of baggy trousers hanging around the knees, big bobble hat, and the very latest most extremely rockered park board.

ooops I forgot about F2... I used to buy those myself before Madd (loved the original speedster series)... good boards.. even the F2 Asym beamer is a user friendly ride. Good boards. I even bought a used F2 Roadster as a starter board for a good friend of mine last spring...($25!)

I'm not disagreeing with anything you say...

For instance... my current "carving set up" as I have no hardboots... is a Rossignol Judge Powder board ($200), 3 year old Burton Andy Warhol Boots ($125), and 4 year old Union Force DLX bindings ($150.. I've replaced the straps on these bindings 3 times.).

If you have ridden with me... you'd see that you don't NEEEEED a great board to have fun. I have fun on every hill...even the tiny ones. My cost to ride my Rossi for the amount of days on it is about $1.50 a day.

And you can get good on anything... but the crappier stuff may take a lot longer to get good.... ie... you could waste an extra 15 -50- 100 days learning to carve well on a Burton M5. THAT"S EXPENSIVE! Also you won't have as secure edge hold... so your accident rate might go up. Medical attention is expensive.

But let's look at the economics of it all.. the cost of riding.

A day of riding... if you travel to ride... ranges from $20-$30 (an amortized season pass + gas if you live within 10-20 miles) to the day tripper with 3-4 hrs of driving and a discount lift ticket... $75. (based upon 2 people per car)

To no discount lift ticket full price.. $70 + a full tank of gas or more in a SUV $80 + Lunch $16

OR>..... how about if you have kids or a wife who also ride... now it gets really expensive...a motel... lost mittens, handwarmers, junk food...etc.etc.etc.. could be $600 ski weekend! Or MORE.

So if you dump some cash on Used Metal.. you might get better in fewer days. It could end up saving you money to get to the skill level you want because you do it in fewer days.

And..to Jack... yes you don't need Olympic Podium material.....but that stuff sure is fun. If you can do it (and have skills)... just do it.... the stuff is wild.

as to being snubbed... happens to me EVERY RUN... The softbooters think I'm wacked for riding a split tail, The park riders hate that I wear Arc'teryx, the hardbooters think I'll get in their way, the skiers look at me as another snowboarder skidder, the other powder board guys think my stance is ridiculous.

So I just try to go first and stay first... so I'm never in anyone's way.

In the beginning..... everyone hated the snowboarders... so I'm just feeling that retro vibe... lol.

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As I've watched people who have gone from older boards to the new ones, I can definitely say, the difference is clearly visible. Everyone on new boards is riding better, and some have almost instantly taken their riding to much higher levels. I think for novice, and intermediate riders, the confidence the new boards imbue, allows people to concentrate on improving technique, rather than just surviving each turn. For the better riders, the boards have broadened the range of conditions where riding an alpine board is fun.

I've personally experienced the same thing (in my own riding) and seen it in others.

Folks earlier in this thread have said "better gear will not make you a better rider".

IMHO both sides can be right; better gear on its own does not make one a better rider, however it can speed up one's path to self-improvement if it removes a certain roadblock. That's the way I see my history in this sport at least.

Discuss ;)

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Money just isn't there for me. snowboarding is an A sport, to me, but i'm a guy of many hobbies, between the race car, the longboard, guitar/music, and women (the most expensive), i just dont' have the cash to invest. Although i would like to buy a metal board with a traditional shape in the near future.

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I've personally experienced the same thing (in my own riding) and seen it in others.

Folks earlier in this thread have said "better gear will not make you a better rider".

IMHO both sides can be right; better gear on its own does not make one a better rider, however it can speed up one's path to self-improvement if it removes a certain roadblock. That's the way I see my history in this sport at least.

Discuss ;)

better gear liberates the better rider within.

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Locally, I'm lucky to be able to ride with a large community of hard booters. As I've watched people who have gone from older boards to the new ones, I can definitely say, the difference is clearly visible. Everyone on new boards is riding better, and some have almost instantly taken their riding to much higher levels. I think for novice, and intermediate riders, the confidence the new boards imbue, allows people to concentrate on improving technique, rather than just surviving each turn. For the better riders, the boards have broadened the range of conditions where riding an alpine board is fun. In fact I'm riding my old boards less now, because I see what I'm missing out on. I will be riding more next season when I get a new school board.

I will quote this again for truth.

I love to see (or read) a rider's joy and disbelief of how good newer gear is when he/she finally gets around to trying it. This happens all the time here on BOL. Last year, four different riders on older wood boards tried my Coiler. All four of them bought a new Coiler! I just got an amazingly effusive email tonight from a rider who bought one of our newer boards and had been riding a 12 old Rossi.

If you cannot afford it or it does not fit in the priorities, that is fine. For many riders, stoke is not gear dependent. Stoke should be the primary goal of riding.

If it is important to you to ride better gear though, the newer gear is better.

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question: why am i riding old gear?

answer: because i enjoy it. duh!

.....women (the most expensive)

so true. it’s a tough choice. both have 2 outcomes (1 good and 1 bad.)

if you choose a new snowboard the result can either be your dream board (incredible edge hold, handles various snow conditions (ice, crud, powder, chop etc.)) without major changes in your riding technique OR………..it can be the most chattery, torsionally limp, edgeless and unresponsive piece of crap on the planet.

if you choose a new woman, she can turn out to be your unconditionally loving soulmate OR……….she can morph into a nagging tormenting bitch.

there is clearly no easy answer to the woman/snowboard debate.

oh wait! i just remembered why snowboards are way better than women. SNOWBOARDS DON’T TALK BACK!

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Tenorman,in reference to snowboards not talking back like women;snowboards absolutely do talk back.If a woman talked back like an older, more temperamental board does in steep chop she would not be married long..New tech is focused on reducing the sometimes violent talkbalk so common in the older boards I still enjoy riding.But new boards can be designed to be energetic.I like my woman to be passionate and got to help design the ultimate mistress in my Diablo 210.In case the women of Bomber find this to be chauvinist;I'm not sorry:)

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Wow! Um? Where to start? Complicated topic. Old gear vs. new gear, is it really that black and white. We all know there are different levels of riders in this sport and for some a new board can and sometimes does make a difference, I see it on the hill. Then again I also ride with guys who ride boards that are 5, 6, 7 + years old and they have tried new boards and stay with what they have or they have all the above. <O:p</O:p

There are so many variables at play that I have not seen mentioned on BOL (but then I don’t read every post either). Things like how the new board is tuned and waxed, conditions of the day, the morning fresh corduroy compared to the afternoon glaze. Are the bindings exactly set the same as on the old or other board, or should they be? You’re mood, your mental and physical state at that very time of demo. How long since your last ride? Crowded that day? Are you in shape to ride? Do you know what runs are groomed on swing vs. graveyard and why it matters? Or does it matter to you? Do you know what the afternoon glaze on a run is? Do you ever or have you ever just made one insane run and called it a day? Ever go out and rail @ 2:30 in the afternoon? Ever just sit and watch others make turns purely for the love of the arc with amazement? Have you ever hiked up the mountain to look at possible lines that you just can’t see when riding? Do you work the mountain in sections? Do you check the grooming report 2 days in advance of riding and do you know why that is important or do you care? Always ride fresh roy or do you challenge yourself with the afternoon chop on occasion? <O:p></O:p>

Board selection is only one of many parts that make for a good day of riding. It is so much more involved than having a state of the art board (or are they really state of the art) to ride vs’s an old clapped out one or an old one in perfect condition or a new one not tuned, complicated. <O:p</O:p

Looks like it’s gonna be sunny, firm and perfect tomorrow here in Aspen. Think I’ll grab one of 30 boards and go riding. Yep always better to let your riding do the talking… <O:p</O:p

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better gear liberates the better rider within.

Heh, I like that one!

If a woman talked back like an older, more temperamental board does in steep chop she would not be married long.

That one too.

Earlier in my carving career, I recall a few boards that talked back sufficiently that the better rider within was, well, trapped inside.

I used to measure my progress in this sport by getting onto an older, more temperamental board after riding "better gear" and comparing the experience to the last time on the old gear. Silly me, I've let my quiver become too "new" and can't do that anymore.

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You guys are the reason I got back onto a snowboard after 9 years, fully inspired me to come back in with alpine. I have one of those boards John says to hang on a wall, but $250 was my budget to start from scratch with everything (board, boots, bindings, outer wear). Right now I'm lucky to make it out 8 days a year, but when I'm riding I look back and see clean trenches, no washing out, and even more important having lots of fun. I'd rather spend the $250 on lift tickets and gas. Why should I hang this new (old-stock) board that's the only reason I'm even able to be out riding right now and plop $250 on a "thrashed etc etc." when this one carves great for me. Best way to promote the sport to newbies is encouraging/teaching to ride their best on the most they can afford right now. No need to diss down their gear. When they're ready to buy upgrades they'll ask questions, "What should I get on this budget?". No need to proselytize to burn their gear and break the bank, it just comes off as sounding elitist.

All my thanks to you guys here at Bomberonline community forums for getting me back out on the slopes.

Cheers

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I started out on pre-2000 gear. Learned a lot in 3 years and have gradualy been getting newer equipment. The newer board (2008) with titanal butterflys is a good bit easier to ride than the pre-2000 boards, but my Burner is still a fun ride. I am now convinced that new shapes and construction will take my riding up a notch. I've seen a rider that has switched from old school to a custom Kessler and how much his riding improved. Was an amazing transition. Made a good rider totally rip now. I'm ready to take this step into the new world of carving. I would equate the development in carving boards to be similar to what has happened with automobiles. Same basic concept that has been around for years but new technologies have made driving them faster much easier. Look at all the new electronic improvments in a performance automobile that have came out on production cars within the last 15 yrs. A lot of that tech was derived from F1 etc. Same thing has happened in carving boards from WC tech.

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I started out on pre-2000 gear. Learned a lot in 3 years and have gradualy been getting newer equipment..........
Yes, I think that's exactly where I'm at but more like still in the first year of re-learning how I approach snowboarding. I have no doubt that a few years down the road I'll be looking at newer gear and at that point I'll be able to appreciate these differences in performance. For now I'm still having fun and I'm just stoked that I can get out and ride the gear I've got in the first place.
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