Why aren't you riding newer gear?

[colintkemp]

I ride only old gear: 2008 Kessler; 2008 Prior WCRM; 2009 Coiler NSR metal; 2009 Tomahawk metal. Nuthin' from 2010, which is so last year anyways now. And I only have Hangl and Vist, which are yesterday's plates. :)

Note: The foregoing was typed using a Microsoft ergonomic keyboard.

[nekdut]

Because 15 year old Madds are still better than many of the new boards out today, but yes I know they are a special case. :)

But yes, I do have some modern stuff too when the poppy Madd fun gets too tiring!

[arneburner]

well said Bola man. Hope to see you in Aspen.

[Mellow Yellow]

honest reason why I do not ride the "newest and bestest"..... family, work, geography and most importantly time on snow.... at 20 days a year on 800 vert it does not make $ sense to buy new equipment every year..... is this my A sport, yep.... do I want new bling... sure.... but I can go for years on a board before it is ready to be wall art.... so with that said, I'll be bringing a few "antiques" to Aspen....

[tex1230]

Tex, that sig of yours is old and outdated. I have learned not to mess with Texas but that 25cent rider is ripping now on his Kessler. It is a weird quote from a soft booting Cindy who is no longer dominating her class as hard booters on more modern equipment are taking control

I don't know the rider she referred to, but I think the statement is relevant to the conversation here. New, top-of the line gear has nothing to do with skill. A great rider can do well on any gear. A weak rider can be helped by gear, but if he doesn't have the skill, it won't matter. A great rider on top of the line gear will dominate.

I'll be in Colorado in March (hopefully). Maybe you can tone down your attitude and sell me a board when I get there. If not, I'll just buy from Fin.

[inkaholic]

I'll be in Colorado in March (hopefully).

Post up in the CO ride board and let us know so we can get some folks to join you.

Ink

[bjvircks]

I suppose the reason I'm not on a much newer board is my unwillingness to cough up big bucks for a board I have no experience with. Being somewhat geographically isolated from any other carvers and their gear and so not being able to demo anything, I'll only risk very modest $ on a well used Prior 4wd. I do have a set of TD2s which I bought from Fin when they were a fresh product... but everything else is used. If I had the opportunity to demo new tech boards I would almost certainly own a much newer board or two because I would be more certain of a good fit between the board and my abilities. There have been 2 times when I have been able to ride a board I didn't own. When at Big Sky 3 years ago a local let me try a FP he had sitting unsued. It was a great opportunity... but I'm not certain I was able to descerne any pros/cons as my skills were still very weak back then. At a Loveland day session in March '09 Bola let me mess around with a long SG. Man, was I in over my head. SES will be where I start to figure some things out.

[mykcuz]

I rode my hot since i was about 14. after the edge refused to hold up it's end of the bargain, I started to look into new equipment. I had some choices, and a volkl on sale on bomber for little more than a lot of used boards seemed good to me. a custom board would have doubled the price, and I wouldn't justify that.

Next I grabbed some deeluxe boots as a end of season sale from bomber, and the next year the gf bought me td3's for xmas. Now i'm confident that in 10 years all i need is a lift ticket and i can grab my setup and carve safely and have a blast.

If you love carving and you can afford cutting edge, awesome, that's not something to be loathed. A sport with as small a base as we have, could use the monetary support for the manufacturers. Sucking on a million dollar setup is fine with me, ofcourse it's funny to watch. Being 10 min from nyc I'm used to watching the new yorkers show up in literally thousands of dollar ski outfits just to sit on their asses on the bunny slope and never ski again. But as long as you are improving yourself, why should you be laughed at?

Why would a ski bum have money? I don't know because they earned it, then spent it on their passion? Because if i had the financial resources I would allow time in the winter just for carving. We all love to carve here, we just have different budgets, some of our gear represents our budget, and for others it is no reflection of our means.

As a side note: Sitting with my father-in-law in his season ticket seats at the final game at the meadowlands, all of his season tix friends who have sat together in the same seats for 30 years didn't know how the new stadium would have them placed. Nobody knew if they would still be together or just thrown around.(Turns out they are in similar area and close, but not the same seats.) Anyway back to the point, for 30 years these two guys have sat together on the aisle and dressed like any blue collar guy. The one guy handed us his business card to keep in touch just in case, and he's the ceo of Simon&Schuster. This guys a millionaire a hundred times over, and you would never know it. He loves watching the Giants in nosebleed seats in a $80 jacket just like everyone else. He could have been in a suite or atleast closer to the field for what he makes in 10 minutes. Some people with money buy sports teams( Mark Cuban), others just sit in their seats like they have for 30 years and love every minute of it. You really can't judge someone.

Why would a liftee in the alps who loves to ride be online burning people with expensive gear. By your own logic you should be working, loving your family time, or riding 'til you're so tired you need to pass out before work the next day. Don't be hatin' the American dream.

[softbootsurfer]

I believe it was mentioned that the conditions where you ride might play some factor in this.

How you want to Ride or the Style you wish to emulate should also be considered important... Jasey J needs to make up 4/100 of a second to stand on a podium, Racing on a Race Prepared GS course with fences and protection, at breakneck speeds, while you might buy that same equipment to Carve down your areas slopes amongst crowds with no fencing and protection, which of course is your choice.

Here in Aspen, 95 % of the 130 or so days I spend on the snow would be called Hero Conditions, basically any kind of snowboard is easy to Carve on here, Pow or Groom...

I buy a new stick every year and bindings every two, though that is because I destroy my equipment on logs and Rocks doing Buff Drops all over the mountains here...My equipment is simplistic compared to some here on Bomber, yet once I found what I wanted to experience with my Carving 25 years ago, I have stayed with that, because it is what brings me the greatest Joy... some of us only seek more turns... and advanced Racing Equipment is not needed if your not Racing or have Hero conditions all season long at your area, at least IMO

I certainly consider my Riding circumstances Elite! to say the least... Thousands upon thousands of runs reveal my passion...

[big canuck]

Orig 158 Madd. nuff said.

Schwing!!!

[Jack M]

Sharp-tongued 60+ days per season snow carver gets banned (lose) and cannot dispense on-snow advice regarding plates, boards, etc.

Soft-tongued, passive aggressive, 180+ days keyboard carver wins and continue to dish out dimwitted mainstream keyboard riding advice while getting less than 10 days on snow.

What's wrong with this picture?

Fin instituted the ban, and it is temporary. All of 2 days. Pretty light for violating rules 1, 2, 4, 8, 9, 10 on a regular basis:

http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=14

I have no personal beef with Mark as we made kissyface last year, but the facts are the facts. Oh, I get about 30-40 days a year now.

I was in Aspen earlier this week and will be there part of next week to ride with my friends before they head back to the North Shore.

Hey you must have been at the Telluride World Cup race seeing as you're the big Colorado racer shop guy... would love to read your report of the event!

[pow4ever]

First to those who dedicated their life to snow; you truly have my utmost and sincere respect. It's simply too tough and difficult for me.

Second: Happy New Year!!!

Generalization is bad; it can be taken the wrong way.

"poseurs/used crap"

What is with the TGR style elitism? Not "core" enough if I am not eating out of a can living in the ski resort parking lot?

Sorry to say that the poseurs/gapper are the one that's keeping the chair lift running. If everyone pack PB&J for lunch and getting 90 days out of season pass. Most resort will simply not able to stay in business.

I believe most consumers have the intelligent to know:

that buying a Ferrari doesn't make you Michaels Schumacher

Wearing Jordan doesn't make one any better at basketball.

"Days on the mountain" is that like the penis size of hardbooting?

Got 3 days in so far this season: It's no picnic to get those days in; but it's worth it to me.

DEC 11: Planned the weekend; but work/family obligation cut the trip short to a day trip. Gave away my lift ticket and hotel room to a friend of friend.

DEC 26: Took 14 hours on a cramp bus to do a day trip to VT due to the snowstorm.

DEC 31: Wake up @ 3AM to drive to the mountain. Was going to spent the weekend but friend got hurt so had to go home early. Arrive home just before the ball drop..

maybe it is easier for me to move closer to the mountain :)

just my $0.02 from a talentless internet snowboard poseur delicate daffodil's perspective...

[two_ravens]

Second: Happy New Year!!!

Got 3 days in so far this season: It's no picnic to get those days in; but it's worth it to me.

Holy cow, Pow - you're coming to SES this year, right? You've certainly earned a week of easy access and hero groom! Happy New Year to you too!

[tufty]

Tufty, you are short-changing yourself after making the right decision to get out of London. Swinging chairs at resorts is really not the best method to be on snow.

You're probably right in many respects, but there's more to it than just $$$, at least for me. A certain amount of it is political, even, and I have somewhere between zero and zero motivation and intention to plunge myself into the expat community; certainly in Chamonix. Over here I've been accepted as a brother by the French. I've been treated like **** by the expats. Far as I'm concerned, they can continue to pretend to themselves that Chamonix is a little part of Kensington, complain loudly to themselves about the locals' appalling manners, and keep their heads stuffed firmly up their arses. I want nothing to do with them.

Yeah, I could probably get my BASI stuff (my boarding's certainly up to par, and skiing's not that far off) and end up as a teacher for one of the expat schools over here, but I know the majority of the people who run them over here, and they are not the kind of people I want to do business with. I'd rather smack myself in the balls with a hammer, and that's before you consider that I'd end up being forced to "teach" people to "snowboard" by riding duck on some awful soft board at best. At worst, I'd end up like my fully BASIed friend who was promised a place teaching but ended up driving a transfer bus to and from Geneva every day at minimum wage.

The same thing goes for guiding with any of the "expat" places, with the added bonus of my off-piste skillz not being mad enough, and not having the local knowledge required to consider myself able to safely take amateurs off-piste (and especially not around Chamonix). Getting people killed is not part of what I want to do.

Which leaves the ESF and other "French" ski schools, which are insanely hard to get into, and the "Bureaux des Guides" who are equally, if not more, exigent.

As it is, I like my life as it is. I can ride every day for at least an hour (weather permitting), sometimes more (I got 3 hours in today), I can ride anywhere in France for free, and get treated more or less like royalty in every resort I go to. There's a very close knit community of lifties in every resort, and the job itself is kinda fun. The money's not great, but really, who cares? Life's not about money, it's about living.

I probably came across a bit harsh in my last post, and wouldn't want it to appear that I consider everyone with new gear to be a "poseur" (especially considering many of those here with new boards could ride circles around me even with older, crappier, gear than mine), but I would suggest that anyone who needs to ask the question "why are you riding that old gear when there's new stuff available" has a major disconnect with most people's financial reality.

I'm not a reverse snob, by any means. Nor am I too proud to accept donations. PM me for an address to stick on your unloved, cast-off 2010 Kesslers and so forth before entrusting them to the USPS (or local equivalent) :)

Also, happy new year. I wish good snow and better grooming to all of you.

[Willow 15]

A certain amount of it is political, even, and I have somewhere between zero and zero motivation and intention to plunge myself into the expat community; certainly in Chamonix. Over here I've been accepted as a brother by the French. I've been treated like **** by the expats. Far as I'm concerned, they can continue to pretend to themselves that Chamonix is a little part of Kensington, complain loudly to themselves about the locals' appalling manners, and keep their heads stuffed firmly up their arses. I want nothing to do with them.

Don't tar every Brit with the same brush tufty. I am a Brit who loves new gear, not that I have bought any recently. I am currently living in the UK so do not get many days riding a year, probably less than 30. I did seasons back in the late 80's and early 90's and love my sport of snowboarding(if anyone asks I am an alpine snowboarder). My last purchase was an €1000 SG and think it was worth every cent, and I am currently saving for something metal and 185 (the choice is unbelivable at the moment).

Don't get me wrong though, I go to the Alps every year and know exactly what you mean about most Brits. No wonder we have a sh*t reputation in France. I wish I had the money to spend on a £1000 kyuss jacket and all the trimmings then wander around any resort skiing/snowboarding with no respect for surroundings/locals etc.

Chamonix, been there a few times and hated every minuite. 40 a*%holes for every Alp and everyone thinks they are a pro mountaineer/skier/boarder.

The best thing I find is let your riding do your talking no matter what you have on your feet. Have a good season and I am out in La Plagne at the beggining and middle of Feb if you fancy some alpine riding.

[tufty]

Don't tar every Brit with the same brush tufty. ... Don't get me wrong though, I go to the Alps every year and know exactly what you mean about most Brits. No wonder we have a sh*t reputation in France.

Oh, not every Brit, by any means. I'm one, for example, and I like me. Even the British (or any other nationality) tourists who come over here and don't speak a word of the lingo are OK, they're generally smart enough to be at least mildly polite and keep their heads down, at least in the resorts I've worked (small "family" resorts, mainly). What I can't stand is the ex-pats in places like Morzine and, above all, Chamonix; their attitude is summed up by the bar in the middle of Cham with a sign on the door saying "no french allowed". There are decent expats - I know, and have known, a few of them, and none of them live in or around Chamonix.

Not been to La Plagne for a good while, PM me with your dates and I'll see if I've got time off around then.

[kieran]

their attitude is summed up by the bar in the middle of Cham with a sign on the door saying "no french allowed".

must remember to break that sign into little bits, next time i'm down there. wankers.

[yooperluke]

:biggthumpHans,

Put me on your friends list when your ready to dump that "used equipment" Serious Dude.Top Notch used is 10x better then junk new.

To Jack: There is still a lot of almost new gear for sale in the classifieds for nice prices to get. Like for instance 50% of my new bought boards which I sell after two or three days riding

(I am still looking for the perfect quiver)

[Mike T]

I'm more curious about the people who would state that they consider snowboarding to be their A-list activity / passion / lifestyle, and yet somehow manage to make enough money to be able to afford a multi-thousand-dollar investment in equipment every season. After all, if you're living a snowboarding lifestyle, surely you're on the slopes riding (or doing something else related), and not sat on your arse in an office earning enough to pay for a new board.

There is a HUGE difference between an activity or passion, and a lifestyle. If one lives close to a ski resort (say 20 minutes), and has a well-paying job, it is totally possible to do 1M vertical feet a season while working full time doing something else. Even if one has a family - as long as THEY are into snow too!

[stupidlong]

as for spending cash I spend as little as possible. I work as a teacher so I dont have to buy a seasons pass. I got started hardbooting on an old 94 rossi throtle $75 oxygen proton boots $40 and TD1's for under $100 so I'm in it for the short money but I did buy a new board this year a nice little twin( flexy sexxy) but the last new board I bought was in 97 snowboarding is my winter A sport with many other A and B sports I'm always looking to spend the short money so used second hand ebay as long as it quality it should last

so new old used or spit and balling wire I wasn"t born with a silver spoon in my mouth

[John Gilmour]

In 1993 Madd was the first $1000 snowboard when everyone else was around $350-$450.

I got to ride the blems.

I still have and ride 2 Madd 158 blems from the original batch... they still ride exactly like the day they popped out of the mold.

Personally...I like the fact that the Madd 158 wants to be ridden correctly. I attribute a great deal of my riding to the board directing me to ride properly.

Then taking those clean skills from a glass deck to a Metal deck lets you unleash on a Metal.

The original Madd 170 (with extended carbon- we made 3) was/is my favorite. I loved the spring out of these decks. Nothing felt as fun on compressed chalk as that board.

I also like the dampness of the new Metals... and the speed.

METALS... (the game starts at $1600...)

The Kessler 168 BX was unreal fast.. faster it seemed than the Kessler 185...that metal just works well with the flex pattern to keep more board on the snow when straight bombing. With the right wax it felt like the fastest deck (flex pattern) I had ever ridden.

The 163 Kessler BX was so incredibly stable to toss sideways at speed.. and landed air...like it was nothing...amazing. Shocking really. Not as fast as the 168 though.

The Kessler 185 PGS didn't connect for me somehow.. I think my boot binding board combo was somehow off...in terms of the different flexes of each component. I'll have to revisit it with new boots.

The Virus UFC was insane in clumpy powder... very friendly when in the carve... a fun fun board. If I could only buy one alpine do it all deck...this might be it. Though it was a bit long for my tastes and wide... there is a new narrow one out though....should be perfect.

But for all the really old stuff or stuff that wasn't even very good when new..ie...Burton Stat, Burton Factory Prime, Burton Ultra Prime, PJ6, PJ7, Alp, M5,M6, Kemper Aggressor, Kemper Screamer, Volant, Hot Spot, Hot Logical (great beginner boards), Hot Shine, Hot Blast, rossignol throttle, Rossi throttle dual cap ...ugggh, Rossignol 173 with VAS plates or without, Pre 1990 anything except for Aggression Stealth 170.

Oxygen Proton, Oxygen with thaat silly Doberman graphic, anything by Nale/ELAN, Pre 1995 Niedeckers, Vision anything, Sims non split tails, Mistral anything, K2 anything, limited anything, Checker Pig anything, hooger booger anything, crazy banana anything, wild duck anything, Apocalypse anything, Rev anything, etc..etc.etc..

For everyone on the slopes benefit... turn those old decks into wall hangers. THIS SEASON.

And dump $250 for any decent thrashed Donek, Coiler, Prior, or any other quality alpine dedicated manufacturer. You'll have such a better time....and more importantly.... you'll ride better, look better and will help attract more people to Alpine.

A 3 year old 154+cm Burton Super model could outcarve just about all of the decks I listed as wall hangers.

At Mammoth I saw someone carving some outdated noodle under the stump lift Jan 23rd... it must have been something ancient..and it just looked so weak. If he had been on good gear he could have made it look great. He could have done better on rental gear....that is how old his set up was... likely an older Euro judging from his clothes.

[Jack M]

METALS... (the game starts at $1600...)

Umm, maybe if you want to stand on a World Cup or Olympic podium, but for normal people the game starts at $800 for a Coiler or $1000 for a Donek or Prior. Or even $700 for a Volkl or Nidecker.

A 3 year old 154+cm Burton Super model could outcarve just about all of the decks I listed as wall hangers.

Nonsense.

[tufty]

But for all the really old stuff ...

Sorry John, but you're so far off the money here it's not even funny. I saw a guy today on an old F2 (and I do mean old - the base had the "fun and function" logo) who was doing stuff I can't even dream of, and which approached caspercarver levels of what-the-****ery. It was truly beautiful to watch. The guy himself was in his late 50s.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. It's not what you ride, it's how you ride.

Nobody's claiming that the newer boards aren't significantly better (not to mention, probably less "ridden out") than the older stuff, but they aren't, at least to the majority of people I know, $600-$2000 better.

If I was to go out today and buy a brand new alpine board, I'd be dropping what amounts to the better part of a month's rent for most people round here. In my case, it would be getting on for 6 month's worth of mortgage payments, but I only have a small mortgage. And that would be for something little better than what I already have. To go to something "serious", I'd be looking at 3 to 4 months rent (or, for me, a year's mortgage payments). In a world where a significant number of people have trouble "joining the two ends" at the end of the month - well - you get the idea.

As I see it, snowboarding itself is in danger of collapsing on itself, imploding under the weight of park-style-fashion-wank NAB*s encouraged / imposed by the "business" side of things. Freecarving is something that could attract a significant part of the snowboarding public, if only they knew it was an option. But no, alpine is alpine, it's exclusive, and if you haven't got a metal board that's worth more than a small car, you can **** off out of our club. That attitude is worse than anything you'll find in the park - at least there you'll only get snubbed by 50% of the other rats for having last year's hat.

Think back to your youth. Think about all those cool sports cars you would have loved to have when you were 17, but couldn't afford to run. Who is the majority that can afford to drive those cars now? It's not "cool 17 year olds", it's "paunchy, balding, middle aged accountants". They are usually divorced. Wanna be seen as that? To a lot of people, that's how alpine looks today.

It doesn't matter what you ride. Just go out and ride. Carve trenches. Show the skidders what it's all about (literally - chat with them, explain to them on the lifts, take the time to show them how to do the norm, point them to rental shops that still have carveable gear - don't tell them their gear is inferior, don't be an *******). Above all, though, have fun. Whatever you're riding, that's what it's about.

* NAB = "Nain a Bonnet" (literally, "dwarf in a bobble-hat") - the "park classic" of baggy trousers hanging around the knees, big bobble hat, and the very latest most extremely rockered park board.

[Jack M]

Sorry John, but you're so far off the money here it's not even funny....

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. It's not what you ride, it's how you ride.

agreed.

But no, alpine is alpine, it's exclusive, and if you haven't got a metal board that's worth more than a small car, you can **** off out of our club. That attitude is worse than anything you'll find in the park

good thing that attitude doesn't actually exist here.

[tufty]

good thing that attitude doesn't actually exist here.

You don't think so? Not even a little bit? Admittedly, my statement was a bit OTT, but something of that sort feels pretty much like a constant undercurrent to me. This might be a culture clash thing, of course, "two countries separated by a common language" and all that.