Why aren't you riding newer gear?

[Bullwings]

:rolleyes:

If carving feels easy or like cheating, you aren't going fast enough.

Try carving my Metal 186 GS board down a steep and narrow east coast trail and then say that again. It's all about how hard you push yourself. I just came back from my first weekend on snow, this season and it took me a few days to get back on point ... until I did - things were more than a little frightening. They're not cheater sticks, they allow you to push yourself harder.

I had several moments this past weekend, where I felt a bit like that :-p.

I think there's something to be said for guys who just prefer the feel of old-school glass and the pop that it gets you. There are plenty of riders out there who just prefer the feel of glass. Some of them have even had glass boards made with new school shapes to get the best of both worlds.

Both of you missed the point i was making. I didn't say carving was easy, and I didn't say anything about pushing yourself.

Metal just makes it that much easier. If you push yourself to your limits on a glass board of equal specs etc. etc. vs. the same board in metal - it's likely that your performance and limits tend to be higher/greater on the metal board.

As for the metal 186 GS analogy, well try the same thing with the same exact board in glass... Chances are that you'll probably say it was easier to do on the metal board.

With the exception of a few things (things that i cannot think of - maybe tail end hop/jump transition carving) metal makes whatever it is that you're doing a lot easier than if you were on glass. Carving is easier (it's not easy, but less difficult when compared to a comparable glass board), skidding is easier and more controlled, varying the radius of the turn is easier, riding longer hours and until resort closing is easier, riding and gripping in ice is easier - all when compared to glass. It's not EASY, but it's easier when compared to riding a glass board. Hence, metal = cheating. And, if you're not cheating, then you're not trying hard enough ;)

As far as being more enjoyable, well, that's rider preference. It's all about feel and what puts a smile on your face.

Me, I like metal, it puts a huge smile on my face because it lets me push harder on so many different conditions and allows me to do it with confidence.

Edit: I should also say that when I say Metal it is synonymous with incorporating the new shapes with decambered tail/nose and all that VSR goodness. On that front, I can't make a direct comparison with a glass board since I haven't ridden a glass board with the new shape technology. So i should change it to "New technology (metal and shapes) = cheater sticks :biggthump"

[Surf Quebec]

I'm riding metal since last year, I bought a 2009 SG from SEB.

I could not afford a brand new SG.

I also have 2 other glass boards.

So far I've never bought a board new. It will change next year, I'm planning to order a metal coiler for next year. I've been putting money on the side for that for a while.

I have 3 kids and I'm coaching 2 of them in elite soccer teams, I also go to all swimming competition of my other kid and sometimes get implicated in the competitions... So I'm pretty busy all year long and my wife understands that winter is my season and my carving needs.

Carving is probably cheaper that a therapist

[bobdea]

Cause my favorite freeride board hasn't been in production for over 10 years and the industry is just starting to catch up to the technology it utilizes.

what board is this?

[Jack M]

Why is your enjoyment "limited" on older gear?

Sure, I agree, snowboarding is like sex or pizza. Even when it's bad it's still pretty good. I had been having the time of my life on a snowboard for 20 years before I got a metal board, but the new stuff is just better. I simply have more fun on it. Selling my new stuff now and going back to the boards I was riding before would be imposing a limitation of sorts on my fun meter, now that I know the difference.

I would say that the new tech is most critical on GS boards, or on less than hero conditions. On great groom, yes, it makes way less of a difference, or no difference, or it might even be less desirable. But those days are pretty rare, at least here. On dicey conditions or if you like to go very fast, you will like the new tech better, and that is that. Even if you don't ride at GS speeds, chances are still very good that you will like the new stuff better. My NSR 185 is simply hands-down better than the Madd 180, Donek 186, Prior 175 I used to own, and the Prior WCRM 187 I demo'd, in all conditions. And I loved all those other boards.

[MUD]

I'm not saying you shouldn't buy a ferrari when mustang will get you there just as fast.

You guys do realize he has a MADD BX right????? No shortage of anything there.

AND calling the BX a mustang is heresy....

[Neil Gendzwill]

My NSR 185 is simply hands-down better than the Madd 180, Donek 186, Prior 175 I used to own, and the Prior WCRM 187 I demo'd, in all conditions. And I loved all those other boards.

That's fine for you. But the tone taken in these threads, of which we've had a few, is surprisingly negative for what boils down to an equipment choice. Frankly it feels a lot like some people need to justify their own expenditures to themselves.

I think the #1 variable is the pilot of the machine, not the machine. This pilot still needs a lot more work. Also having bent a metal ski or two in my day, I'm a little leary of taking metal into the places I like to go.

[Dan]

You guys do realize he has a MADD BX right????? No shortage of anything there.

AND calling the BX a mustang is heresy....

Full disclosure: I have one too. :biggthump Works awesome for the "tweener" days we get so often in the PNW, where it's a couple of inches of wet snow over hardpack. It may not be the latest/greatest technology, but I sure have a lot of fun on it.

Mr E., love your "universal rocker" photo, and sabestian, good work correctly identifying it as a noboard.

I did demo a metal board a few years ago. I don't recall the specifics on the shape - if it was VSR/decambered nose, etc. I thought it rode very nicely, and felt the dampness/solidity, but I didn't feel it was so much better than my existing boards that I had to have one.

I wonder if part of the difference is conditions: though we rarely ride perfect chalk out here, we almost never ride blue ice either. Are East Coast conditions where metal boards shine the most?

Sure, I agree, snowboarding is like sex or pizza. Even when it's bad it's still pretty good.

Quoted for truth. Put it on a t-shirt!

[JJFluff]

Money and not knowing any different.

I can make the old stuff work so I am content continuing to use the gear. I would love the upgrade but it isn't a necessity for fueling the passion. I have demoed gear at the SES but it didn't put me over the edge.

Plus I'm discovering that kids are expensive.

[trailertrash]

But the tone taken in these threads, of which we've had a few, is surprisingly negative for what boils down to an equipment choice. Frankly it feels a lot like some people need to justify their own expenditures to themselves.

There isn't meant to be a "tone" at all. Just a discussion. Everybody has an equation that gets them on the hill.

You could say there is a tone from the people who ride older gear that somehow they think they are getting away with something.

I think the general opinion is that newer gear is somewhat more user friendly. If user friendly translates to having more fun why wouldn't somebody want that? I don't get this martyr attitude of "I'm not worthy" crap.

It is as if some people want to limit the amount of fun they can have. "I am not good enough to have that much fun!" :D

[Buell]

Everybody has an equation that gets them on the hill.

I have been really impressed with the civil tone and great responses in this, at times, hot button topic.

[Neil Gendzwill]

You could say there is a tone from the people who ride older gear that somehow they think they are getting away with something.

Yes, it goes both ways and that's why these conversations tend to deteriorate.

I think the general opinion is that newer gear is somewhat more user friendly. If user friendly translates to having more fun why wouldn't somebody want that?

How user friendly do you want it to be? Some people think a modern car with all the automated stuff is a lot of fun. Others prefer simpler machines. Is one better than the other? In terms of a bunch of measurable things, I'm sure the new cars are better. In terms of "fun"? Totally subjective.

The fun for me is in riding regardless of the equipment. Given limited funds, I vote for more hill time rather than an equipment injection. I'm having more fun with 10 days on the hill with my old gear than 5 days on the hill with new gear.

[pow4ever]

computer analogy:

Board=Computer HW

Rider=Computer SW

Better HW allow SW to evolved.

Advances in SW forced HW to progress as well.

To find the happy balance is what we strive for?

If someone is happy with what they got; no need to rain on their parade.

For me it comes down to price/performance/value/best bang of the buck.

Do I need the Mac Pro(expensive and powerful machine) if all I can do is Solitaire(very simple game)?

I will never utilize it's full potential; but it sure is pretty...

**I am not an apple people**

Yes snowboard is on my A list too bad I am a "F"(all a lot)rider.

the price of

SG 185 + vist + TD3 SW + UPZ 10 + dalbello gold liner

is greater than the cost of my car!!!

and my work cloth is much much ratty than my ski cloth lol...

--

David

[scrutton]

the price of

SG 185 + vist + TD3 SW + UPZ 10 + dalbello gold liner

is greater than the cost of my car!!!

Yeah, for a while, my bike was worth more than my car. Nothing wrong with that IMO.

[BulletProof]

Yeah, for a while, my bike was worth more than my car. Nothing wrong with that IMO.

My climbing gear + camping gear is 3x the price of my car, actually maybe a bit less than that if you take in the repairs.

Waiting to get a bit more disposable income before I get some more updated gear... probably a board and definitely boots.

[NateW]

I bought custom boards almost yearly for a while, when I felt that different dimensions would be more fun. Then I converged on something the suits me well. I'm riding a Donek 172 AX built to my specs with conventional shape and materials. And I like this board more than I can put into words.

I hear good things about metal and decamber, and I'll try it eventually, and I'm sure I'll like it. But for now I just don't see much point spending a nontrivial amount of money to replace something that continues to give me so much fun.

I keep hearing that new-school boards are awesome, but it's never been put into terms that actually sound more desirable than what I have now. Part of the issue is that I don't have a problem with what I ride now. My setup is comfortable, and the board does everything I ask it to. I'm not going to spend a grand for something that doesn't solve a problem, or for an unquantifiable improvement to an already kick-ass experience.

Also, I typically upgrade when I break a board. That's given me a pretty regular upgrade cycle for years. :) That this board has now outlasted anything else I've owned. So it's just a matter of time. When this board breaks, I'll have a problem, and I'll solve that problem with a metal board, because why not? Maybe I'll kick myself for not upgrading sooner, but I kinda doubt it.

[Gecko]

mostly because I know I haven't exceeded the capabilities of the board I have:1luvu:

[bobdea]

Yeah, for a while, my bike was worth more than my car. Nothing wrong with that IMO.

mine too, and I have a fairly cheap bike!

[Steve Prokopiw]

at SES 09 I tried seven metal boards and had fun.Some were noticably sweeter than others,all were easy to ride.The boards that stuck in my memory the most were the Virus asym 185 and the G-Force Blade 171.Niether were metal and both challenged me to bring my game up to their's.I took the Blade home and it is currently one of my two go-to boards along with another nonmetal board,a Diablo 210.

Obviously this thread is about riding new and modern equipment and the two boards I use the most are at least modern by virtue of their year of manufacture,but they don't fit the current direction of 'easier is better'. They do however, bring me miles of smiles.

I have no intention of growng old gracefully,but maybe someday I'll have a rocking chair with metal in it:)

[BlueB]

Metal, glass, oldschool, newschool, love them all, ride them all, buy them, sell them, trade them, brake them - it's all fun. Who cares?

Do I like my metals? Sure I do. I'm lazy and half-suck, I can use a bit of cheat.

Would I still have fun if I had only glass boards? Sure I would.

[sabestian]

There is one thing to add to the discussion. New tech helps explore what's really possible for you to do on the board. Then, when you switch to oldschool stuff you KNOW it is possible, just more difficult. Not everyone is born genius with that great capability of feeling the limits coming. Some of us :o have to be lead by the hand and shown where they are. One can't break the laws of physic but one can learn how to move within the limits and that is easier on gimmicky equipment (I guess... :) ).

[sharples]

great thread:

for me its money (or lack of), too many other expensive hobbies (mountain biking, paintball, conventional snowboarding) and not enough time to do them all.

plus can't see the justification in laying several grand for brand new gear when my 12 yr. old Rossi VAS with the 17 yr. old SP5's only get used several times a season and work perfectly fine.

[185er]

Cause my little one have better stuff than I have....

She start skiing at one and a half with new ski, boots and a nice Phenix snowsuit costing more than my own....

Now at 3 and a half, she need new ski boots plus...:).....she start snowboarding....so she's full BURTON poseur from head to toe with boots, board and suit...and I have another 8 month old futur rider growing, waiting to toutch snow next winter.

So I'll keep on riding my 7 years old boards for a while I think...

[forrest]

I think the way I most clearly see the financial aspect to the decision to ride older gear is when the gear comes at the expense of days on the snow. Its maybe a hundred dollars to get to a mountain and buy a lift ticket, hell I know most of the cheap days around me and I don't think I can get there and back with a lift ticket for less than $75. If I get out 20 days or so with old gear buying a new stick would knock me down to 10 days or less. Not worth it. I want to be out on the snow not sitting on the couch thinking about how if I were riding I would really enjoy the new board sitting in my living room.

[eastcoasticerider]

2 kids through PennState plus 1 going to gradschool. +one downsized dad + gas at $3.00 + equals ride what you got or got used to. I actually like some of the older gear circa 97 Burton longboards. Old Prior stuff too. New doesnt equate with better.Especially when riding substandard local hills that only get groomed? once every nite.

[Buell]

New doesnt equate with better.Especially when riding substandard local hills that only get groomed? once every nite.

Have you tried any new gear? Maybe you have and did not like it.

There can be a lot of valid reasons for not riding new gear. This, for most everyone, is not one of them. If you rode hero groom all the time, newer gear would have much less benefit for your riding. Poor conditions is where the new gear excels, even if the runs are short.