Moving UP a boot size?

[zoltan]

My feet are between 27.5 and 28, but I've been using Raichle/Deeluxe boots in a 26. They've been pretty heavily worked to get my feet to fit, and I'm using custom footbeds. However, my feet will still sometimes cramp, and very often feel just on the verge of cramping. While the boots aren't uncomfortable, they're not exactly comfortable either.

I originally bought size 27 boots, but experienced so much heel lift the first time out that it rubbed my heal raw. At the time I thought it because the boot was just too big.

What I noticed after I sold the 27s was the boot's upper was waaaay too high volume for my skinny chicken legs. They would pinch together at the top, and not really tighten around my upper ankle. After layering two layers of boot fitting foam in the uppers, they' nicely snug, and hold my leg nicely.

Since I sorted out the uppers issue, I've been thinking of going back to a 27 and modifying it in the same way, and hopefully eliminating the cramping issue and making the boots more comfy all.

So, am I talking sense here, or is my thinking way off? I'd hate to spend $500 on new boots for nothing.

[trailertrash]

They've been pretty heavily worked to get my feet to fit...

Can you clarify this part?

[zoltan]

Can you clarify this part?

My boot fitter has worked on the shells three different times to get my feet in there, and the plastic has been stretched to the point where they cannot really do anything more.

[GeoffV]

have you consider getting foam injected liners?

[Buell]

Cramping feet are bad for your carving. Loose boots are also bad.

If you are riding deeluxe boots, the upper cuff does not fit skinnier legs. In addition to padding the inside, you can also cut out material where the cuff meets and drill a new hole further around for the side of the buckle that is easily moved.

[xy9ine]

try a upz 27? i've got similar foot sizing, and they're the bees knees. nice snug heel - no way it's going to lift. the uppers fit my svelte calves nicely as well.

[zoltan]

have you consider getting foam injected liners?

I have, but I didn't want to continue spending money on boots which might, ultimately, be too small.

try a upz 27? i've got similar foot sizing, and they're the bees knees. nice snug heel - no way it's going to lift. the uppers fit my svelte calves nicely as well.

I tried a UPZ a couple years ago, and I agree, it fit my foot incredibly well. However, it was also too stiff for me, which negatively impacted my riding, and also gave me a bit of shin bang.

[queequeg]

I tried a UPZ a couple years ago, and I agree, it fit my foot incredibly well. However, it was also too stiff for me, which negatively impacted my riding, and also gave me a bit of shin bang.

Did you try the softer tongues? The new UPZ's are not as stiff as the old ones (based upon what I have been told - I've never been on the older UPZ boots). As long as you've got your forward lean set correctly, they're pretty friendly in the forward flex department. Quite stiff Laterally though. Shin bang is (from what I understand) almost always a matter of fit - were you in the stock flo liners or a thermo?

[zoltan]

Did you try the softer tongues? The new UPZ's are not as stiff as the old ones (based upon what I have been told - I've never been on the older UPZ boots). As long as you've got your forward lean set correctly, they're pretty friendly in the forward flex department. Quite stiff Laterally though. Shin bang is (from what I understand) almost always a matter of fit - were you in the stock flo liners or a thermo?

I was using Intuition liners.

Plus, there's the issue of not being able to use my BTS on UPZ boots.

[Bora20]

You could try the UPZ ATB. They have 4 buckles and come with the soft tongues to start with.

[queequeg]

Plus, there's the issue of not being able to use my BTS on UPZ boots.

The UPZ has it's own spring system - so you don't need the BTS. I went from Head Boots + BTS to UPZ boots and the built-in spring system that they have. It's certainly somewhat less tunable than the BTS, and that was a bit of a concern for me when I made the switch, I found that I could get what I wanted out of the UPZ no problemmo - without even resorting to switching out tongues.

[Michael Pukas]

IMHO, up-sizing is never a good idea. If you can get your feet into the boots you have, then they are not too small. You may need to have shell work done, and/or new liners, but I think you'll only have more problems if you go to a larger shell. It may not seem logical, but a boot fitter can work with a boot that has a tight fit vs a boot that too big. Can we assume you've shell fit the boots you're currently in?

[zoltan]

Can we assume you've shell fit the boots you're currently in?

Yes, as I said above, my current shells have had extensive work done, to the point where the plastic really won't support any additional work.

[xxguitarist]

Are the upz significantly tighter than deeluxe in the heel/ across the ankle? I'm in 27s of 325t, which are a nice upgrade from my old 124s, and the thermomold liner helped a bit. I also added a piece of bootfitting foam to the heel to try to eliminate lift. I still get a little, and thats also using the eliminators tongue inserts!

Sorry to hijack, but it seems to be the same issue.

[Michael Pukas]

Yes, as I said above, my current shells have had extensive work done, to the point where the plastic really won't support any additional work.

What liners are you running? Assuming that your shells are a proper fit of the highly scientific measurement of 1-1/2 +/- fingers behind the heel and not a super tight race fit, I don't see going to a bigger shell size as solving your issues of cramping. You'll only introduce other issues. Foam will only pack out and degrade over time.

Since your boots have had that much work done, you may want to consider new boots anyway, depending on how old they are. In that case, I completely understand you predicament. There are some guys out there who ride in race fit boots and some who can't stand it. I think if you follow the Bomber fit guide, and get new boots to fit your feet, then a boot fitter could work on getting the uppers to fit properly. Boots suck, and there is no inexpensive way out.

Maybe you can get Beckmann AG to jump in on this an offer up some advice...

[bobdea]

IMHO, up-sizing is never a good idea. If you can get your feet into the boots you have, then they are not too small. You may need to have shell work done, and/or new liners, but I think you'll only have more problems if you go to a larger shell. It may not seem logical, but a boot fitter can work with a boot that has a tight fit vs a boot that too big. Can we assume you've shell fit the boots you're currently in?

right, but if you reach the limit of the plastic and are still not there.... what then?

starting with the right shell is HUGE if you're a special needs case like him or myself. depending on the shell I can run a 275 or a 285. some shells like sb series deeluxe/raichle I just cant make work.

[zoltan]

What liners are you running? Assuming that your shells are a proper fit of the highly scientific measurement of 1-1/2 +/- fingers behind the heel and not a super tight race fit, I don't see going to a bigger shell size as solving your issues of cramping. You'll only introduce other issues. Foam will only pack out and degrade over time.

Since your boots have had that much work done, you may want to consider new boots anyway, depending on how old they are. In that case, I completely understand you predicament. There are some guys out there who ride in race fit boots and some who can't stand it. I think if you follow the Bomber fit guide, and get new boots to fit your feet, then a boot fitter could work on getting the uppers to fit properly. Boots suck, and there is no inexpensive way out.

Thermoflex liners. There is no way I can fit 1.5 fingers; MAYBE half of one. Realize my feet are nearly 28 and they're in a 26 boot, so yes, I would call them race fit. While I can obviously do it, I don't prefer it, and couldn't see myself going a whole day in them.

I will admit, the UPZ ATB is incredibly tempting, but it's $600.

[Michael Pukas]

Thermoflex liners. There is no way I can fit 1.5 fingers; MAYBE half of one. Realize my feet are nearly 28 and they're in a 26 boot, so yes, I would call them race fit. While I can obviously do it, I don't prefer it, and couldn't see myself going a whole day in them.

I will admit, the UPZ ATB is incredibly tempting, but it's $600.

Well in that case I think you can prolly upsize without issues, especially since you've had so much work done. Hard to say what to do from here... not sure I would get that UPZ ATB boot as a primary carving boot though - seems like it's quite soft and designed for off-piste riding. There may be better option for a full-time carving boot that's on the softer side. One good thing about Deeluxe is the BTS and you can use softer springs to soften the boot. UPZ offers softer tongues too.

[Bora20]

I will admit, the UPZ ATB is incredibly tempting, but it's $600.

You can make your own. Get a used set of RC10 boots from BOL, get a red (soft) 4 buckle tongue. Install and reposition the lower buckles.

The RC10 shell even has an X on them where to drill to mount only 2 lower buckles.

You would have to fill the holes, but nothing a little silicone couldn't do.

[zoltan]

You can make your own. Get a used set of RC10 boots from BOL, get a red (soft) 4 buckle tongue. Install and reposition the lower buckles.

The RC10 shell even has an X on them where to drill to mount only 2 lower buckles.

You would have to fill the holes, but nothing a little silicone couldn't do.

Is all the difference in stiffness from the tongue?

[andy_1]

Is all the difference in stiffness from the tongue?

I'm pretty sure the RC10's shell is stiffer than the ATB.

[Bora20]

Is all the difference in stiffness from the tongue?

I'm pretty sure the RC10's shell is stiffer than the ATB.

I have no idea, but I am sure Dan Yoja could tell you. The shells look identical in the pictures. Maybe the springs on the rear are different too.

I would guess UPZ would use the same mold for both boots, possibly with a softer plastic for the ATB. I wouldn't bet on it though. I would wager that it is the tongue, the springs, the 4 buckles, and possibly the sole that make it softer.

[Race_Carver]

My feet are between 27.5 and 28, but I've been using Raichle/Deeluxe boots in a 26...

I'm generally not a fan of up sizing either. In most cases, if ones foot is between 27.0 and 28.0 cm long, a 26/26.5 is the correct shell size. Some punching may need done, but it is better than having a shell too big to start.

If your foot is closer to 28, you could go up a shell size, but remember a "27" boot really has a 27.5 shell, so once the liner packs out, your foot may be banging around in there.

I think the real problem here is the shape of the Deeluxe last simply doesn't fit your foot shape. That is a real problem for us with only 3 boot companies to choose from. If possible, try a shell fit (liner removed) with a Head and UPZ 26/26.5 shell and see if it fits the shape of your foot better.

One other thought: Remove the liner from your current boots, using a flexible tape measure, measure the internal length of the shell inside the boot. Then measure your foot. If the measurements are similar, you may have no choice but go up a shell size, since you stated the boots were already punched to the max.

[andy_1]

I have no idea, but I am sure Dan Yoja could tell you. The shells look identical in the pictures. Maybe the springs on the rear are different too.

I would guess UPZ would use the same mold for both boots, possibly with a softer plastic for the ATB. I wouldn't bet on it though. I would wager that it is the tongue, the springs, the 4 buckles, and possibly the sole that make it softer.

I have both the RC10s and ATBs. I agree that all 3 boots (RC10,RC8, and ATB) do probably use the same mold. It seems to me the ATB shell is noticeably softer though. I'll see if Dan can give a definitive answer...

[Flywalker]

RC10's use the stiffest plastic, least affected by cold The standard tongue for the 2011 model is black and has a flex rating of 120. The red tongues have a flex rating of 100.

lf there is ANY way you can test fit a boot that would be the best way to go. Either way, l suspect you will be better off moving to a different manufacturer and going up one shell size.

l wear a size 29 shoe or 11. l wear a 27.5 ski/hard boot. With a well made foot bed l have no problems whatsoever. lf you don't have a good foot bed it is worth every penny. The RC10's will also remove your heel lift issues and can be adjusted easily to accommodate thin calves.

Happy feet have no price tag!