Hard boots with regular width board

[mikeyboy123]

Hi,

I know there are a few riders on here who use hard boots with regular width boards - F2 Eliminator, Rad Air Tanker, Swoard Dual etc.

What angles do you ride? - please state boot size.

Do you only do this in powder, only on groomers, or all over the mountain?

I'm a 28.5 mondo and am looking to maybe use Hard boots with either an Eliminator or Tanker. Would this work?

[Neil Gendzwill]

Size 27.5. I was running 35 f/30 b on my Tanker 2k and then cranked it up a little bit to maybe 40/35. Because both my boots (Raichle 224) and bindings (old Raichle/F2 stepins) are soft, I have a lot of fore/aft movement possible. If you have a stiffer setup you'll probably want to be higher but keeping the angles lower is part of what you want with those boards. My Tanker was good everywhere.

[Jon Dahl]

Mondo 26.5 angles 50f/45r on a 192 Tanker, 45f/30r on a Sims Daytona

[philw]

I do in powder, but the width's not a problem there because edging doesn't require the same force. Riding powder boards on cat tracks is ok with HB; not sure I'd want to do it on piste. I ride around 45/ 50, same as I do on piste or maybe a tad mellower.

[Neil Gendzwill]

My Tanker railed pretty hard on-piste. It's not a pure powder board though, it's a very capable all-rounder.

[BlueB]

Yeah, it's yummy! Tanker, BX boards, FR boards, teaching boards, pow boards, everywhere...

Boot shell 26.5. Angles vary from what I wanted to do:

30/15 - teaching

45/<30 - freeriding

50/40 - carving

On some boards I like to add the Palmer or Burton risers, too.

[b0ardski]

You'll definitely want a softer flexing hardshell for lower angles. Like Neil I love my Raichle 224s for all mt riding.

Over 20 years of exclusively riding plate bindings in all terrain (I'd guess 20% skinny boards/80% wide free ride boards) with m27 boots, I've settled on 38*f/25*r on wide 26cm+/-, up to 50*f/40*r on my 21.5cm nidecker escape. Prefer slight underhang especially for ECing wider boards.

I loved 2 K2 eldos to death 'cause they were great all mt boards, in powder, steep ice, and carved well on groomers.

You'll want a "stiff" built for big mt riding board to hold up to the extra force you get from plates & HBs.

[kieran]

I loved 2 K2 eldos to death 'cause they were great all mt boards, in powder, steep ice, and carved well on groomers.

i still have one from '97, a 173, all dinged up.

it was the board i learned on. tried rentals one year and was puzzled why they were all so soft, mushy and slow.

[lonbordin]

IMHO when you go below 45 in HBs it changes the technique... but I like it.

On my Lib Tech Grocer 48/45 is the lowest I can run (size 30's limit those angles!) and I really enjoy the "surfy" feel of the board at those angles.

57/54 or 54/51 are my sweet spots when the boards get narrower.

[BlueB]

IMHO when you go below 45 in HBs it changes the technique...

Right on!

I figured out that by riding with lots of splay, like front >45 and rear <30, one can utilize both techniques, as needed. A bit of split personalitty feeling, though :D Some pain in the rear knee could be experienced if overdooing rotation into aggressive forward boddy orientation.

[b0ardski]

Guess that's why I like to ride 35/47 on twintips with plates, one foot on either side of 45* allows a blending of techniques.

surfy carvey goodness with a creamy nougat center and packed with peanuts

it really satisfies.

[boarderboy]

Here's to finger-lickin'-good schizophrenia... !!

BB2nd

[kieran]

are you guys using any inward cant on these angles? i tried going shallow on my razor, but it felt pretty dislocative on ye olde knee joints.

though having very stiff 325's probably doesnt help.

[carvedog]

running 28.5 Burton Fires with injected foam liners = pretty stiff.

on Burners at 67/65

Frontier 45/45

Canyon 35/32

No cants. I love it.

[b0ardski]

are you guys using any inward cant on these angles? i tried going shallow on my razor, but it felt pretty dislocative on ye olde knee joints.

though having very stiff 325's probably doesnt help.

I use 3* inward cant on every board/angles up to 55*/60*, on 18cm boards at 60*+ angles, I go with toe/heel lift and no cant on the front, and maybe leave the 3* inward on the back foot.

Ride the factory prime(18cm) race plates flat with no issue, but I'm considering making some custom lift/cant shims for Burton/Ibex that'll be way more stout than the adjustable ones that are near impossible to find.

Cant may not be an issue for Carvedog due to lack of splay, or maybe he's just bowlegged.

[BlueB]

Similar here:

Big heel lift, smaller toe lift, no cants on carving stances;

Big heel lift, smaller toe lift, 3* inward cant on the rear only, on freeride stances.

Flexier boots and bindings help with lower stances and ROM for freeriding.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Yup, a little inward cant on the back foot.

[Jack M]

Those aren't "regular" width boards, those are beginner boards. ;)

[Zanci]

I got a 182 2010 tanker, installing bindings on at the moment.

It has 6 inserts for the front foot and 6 for the back.

I'll be mostly riding powder, so how much setback and which inserts to use, please help :rolleyes:

[Buell]

Rockered boards ride best in powder centered. No additional setback. It will float! If you try to ride it setback or back foot heavy, it will perform poorly.

[kieran]

It has 6 inserts for the front foot and 6 for the back.

i like the 5x2 and 6x2 insert layouts. if the stance widths suit, you can spread the mounting force around more.

[Zanci]

all done :)

g

[mikeyboy123]

Thank you for all your replies. I knew there were some regulars on here riding tankers and such with hard boots but wasn't sure if that was just for powder.

I'm very interested in converting to HBs for use all over the mountain, but I see myself as more of a freerider/freecarver than a dedicated carver per se, and so I intend using them with something like an F2 Eliminator or Tanker - was just concerned that lower angles more akin to soft boot riding wouldn't work with HBs, but seems like a softer set up may work well.

I hope to demo the tanker and Eliminator in Kitzbuhel next year. I have also thought about going for an all mountain board with a waist around 23cm (Prior ATV, Donek custom or Coiler AM) but they would be blind purchases as no chance to demo in Europe and I'm not aware of anything similar that I'd be able to demo in Europe, although please point me in the right direction if you can think of anything. I don't think I'll have an opportunity to get myself up a mountain on the the other side of the pond any time in the foreseeable future!

Thanks again,

Mike.

[BlueB]

For ATV equivalent in EU, look for Nidecker Proto, or F2 ElDiablo/Vantage. The last one, Vantage, is titanal but I didn't ride that version. The other 2 are very capable all-round boards. Proto was my favorite bump board last year.

[terekhov]

if you cannot setup your board as on Jack's foto:

with angles 45 and over - I mean that you cannot set it up without major underhang of toe and heel - you will have severe underleverage to make edging on harder slopes - which gave inability to stay in central balanced stance and possible shin-bang because you will need to leverage edges through boot upper-calfs. so: board width, angles, boot size - it is all related, i.e. board width _determines_ angles for specific boot size. so simply said - you cannot stay in perfect stance with 25mondo hardboot on 25cm board. it's no problem in deeps, but on harder slopes and in moguls it is a very bad idea. want to ride everywhere in hardboots? just use suitable board, with waist 22 and narrower...