Binding Angles

[Harmless]

Just looking around to see if my angles are ok for carving next year.

I have 69/69 right now on a with a 200mm waist width. Is that ok/good?

Thanks for anyhelp.

[big canuck]

First off, I am not an expert, what size are your feet, that will likley have an impact on how you set it up.?

I wear size 28.5 Head boots on 18 cm width boards with angles close to that.

Probably want to run lower angles to get yer toes closer to the edge.

That being said, when i ride 200 mm width boards i still run the same angles. take it for what its worth.

k

[trailertrash]

Check it out:

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[Arje_Vandemeer]

I think foot position is a personal thing...depends what kind of carving you do...EC or what. Depends what shape your knees are in, and how much pre-season training you got done. 200mm is a fairly moderate width aplpine board...that width can easily take lower angles too, but it depends on your foot size.

200mm is wide enough to play around with different angles, so I would just take some time and try as many angles as you can. The good thing about a 200mm board versus an ultra-skinny race board is that you are not locked into high angles. You may find that you like 55 or 60 instead. It's a trial and error thing, I think.

[Buell]

Alright.

I am sure that somewhere in the link trailertrash posted is this information.

In most cases, binding angles are determined by board width and boot sole length. The toe and heel of the boot should be at the edges of the board for maximum leverage and to avoid boot out. For a given board width, a person with bigger feet will need to run higher angles than a person with smaller feet.

69* is pretty high, especially for modern racing technique (I think you are interested in racing?). Most racers currently ride with angles below 60*. You will find a wide variety of angle preferences from freecarvers but again, your angles will ultimately be determined by your board width. I prefer 53f/50r and with my smaller 24 mondo feet, ride 20cm wide boards so I can have my boots at the edges of the board.

If you are still learning to carve and not getting a high edge angle, you can get away with the toe and heel of the boot extending over the edge of the board. If you are booting out in that situation, you need to increase your angles.

[bobdea]

what size is your boot?

waist width of board?

for reference in a 28.5 boot on a 20 cm wide board I'm at 53/50

19.5 57/54ish maybe degree or two lower on both feet

[b0ardski]

skinny board = higher angles; that's a given

those angles are dependent on board width/boot length

The best advice I can give is to set the back foot so the toe and heel are over the edges with minimal overhang and set the front 3-5 degrees higher than the back foot.

Start there and make adjustments on the hill to dial in what feels best for you.

Very few hardboot riders are comfortable with both feet at the same angle, i.e. parallel. Most ride 3*-5* of splay. Personally I ride 5*-10* difference on alpine boards and as much as 15* of splay on wide freeride boards. (I ride plates 100% of the time on all boards in all conditions)

[ursle]

Welcome Harmless, nice post

As everyone is saying, some splay between front and rear feet is optimal, binding angles are personal, some ride the same angles on all boards some always put their toes on the edges no matter the width but more important here is the distance between your feet, if it's to small your center of balance is severely compromised, spread it out, looking at your sharpshooter photo you look to be at 17" or below, stretch it out 3" or so and give yourself some room to move front and aft on the board

jmho,ymmv

[Transistor Rhythm]

Binding angles are useless metrics without knowing board width and boot size. I would always put my rear boot in an angle that is as flat as possible without having boot out. On a race board, you can have a little bit of boot out if you're riding a narrow board (19cm ish wide), if you want to do recreational laid down carves, allow no boot out at all.

So my rear foot would always be set up automatically in this way. Now you have to add a little splay (most of the time). You have to find that out for yourself, but most people have about 5 degrees of splay. For myself, at the moment I ride with 7-12 degrees of splay, since I'm a bit bowlegged. A bit more splay when it's a wider board, a bit less when it's a narrow board.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Binding angles are useless metrics without knowing board width and boot size.

True but I think most would agree that 69 is on the steep side for modern alpine technique. With a 20 cm board there's no need to go that steep unless he's got hyooge feet or is running ski boots or both.

[Harmless]

well after reading through all the post, i have changed the angles to more of a 57f/52r.

and thanks ursle for the tip on spreding out

[KingCrimson]

This is still on your softies right? Those angles are scary high.

[Buell]

This is still on your softies right? Those angles are scary high.

I agree. Softboots need wider boards than hardboots. Softboot angles should generally be below 40*. The boots and bindings are not designed for more than that.

[EZE]

Angles 70/65

I run those as I was experiencing bad skin eating shin bang at lower angles.

Riding with those angles and a 19 3/4 inch stance I am actually able to pass my rear knee through and touch it to the snow on laid over healside carves.

It does not seem to be the 'norm' but it comes down to personal preference.

EZE, photo by Bob J board Madd 170

[Corey]

I am actually able to pass my rear knee through and touch it to the snow on laid over healside carves.

My knee made a popping/squishing noise while just reading that. :p

[EZE]

Blew the right knee all to sh**.

Can't play running sports, but can carve like hell:eplus2:

EZE, photo Bob J Prior 181

[Harmless]

its more or less a hybird softie boot, with a hard shell, j-bars.

i still feel like i have great control, never feel out of control.

[carvedog]

I guess one of those weirdos that rides the same angles.

65/65 or 67/67 on my Burners. Although I did 65/67 for a while too cuz the skinnier part of the board was by my back foot.

I ride 45/45 on my Frontier and 35/35 on the Canyon. Sometimes I splay on the back foot 3-5 degrees.

Why does this splay mean so much to you guys? Legs work together or not regardless of the angle of the toes.

[BobD]

Why does this splay mean so much to you guys? Legs work together or not regardless of the angle of the toes.

I'll try to reply to this, but a good good boot fitter would do a better job.

There are several reasons why some splay in the bindings works for most people. Starting with the most obvious, Most people have some natural splay. Most babies feet are turned outward at birth. This is mostly a twisting of the tibia (between the knee, and the ankle). As we grow the twisting corrects it's self, but most of us are left with several degrees of splay. Various conditions of foot/ankle angles, like pronation will also affect the amount of splay needed. Canting will change this, which is why so many skiers need canting to ski with both feet pointing forward. We don't need to have the feet pointinging the same direction, because we are able to have splay in out set up.

[b0ardski]

For me, it's a matter of feel rather than efficiency.

when my feet are parallel it "feels'' like pigeon toed, or like having my shoelaces tied together i.e. I feel I'm always about to trip. Just a few degrees of splay makes all the difference in the world and I suddenly feel very stable.

I did a poll on splay a while ago and only a few responders ride w/out splay.<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr><td class="thead">

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<!-- / PAGENAV POPUP --> <table class="tborder" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr> <td class="tcat" colspan="4"> View Poll Results: what's your slpay </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt1" width="50%"> negative -1 to -3, alpine </td> <td class="alt2" width="50%"> </td> <td class="alt1" title="Votes" align="center">0</td> <td class="alt2" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">0%</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt1" width="50%"> zero degrees, parallel, alpine </td> <td class="alt2" width="50%"> </td> <td class="alt1" title="Votes" align="center">6</td> <td class="alt2" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">13.04%</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt1" width="50%"> 1-2, alpine </td> <td class="alt2" width="50%"> </td> <td class="alt1" title="Votes" align="center">4</td> <td class="alt2" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">8.70%</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt1" width="50%"> 3-5, alpine </td> <td class="alt2" width="50%"> </td> <td class="alt1" title="Votes" align="center">27</td> <td class="alt2" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">58.70%</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt1" width="50%"> 6-10, alpine </td> <td class="alt2" width="50%"> </td> <td class="alt1" title="Votes" align="center">11</td> <td class="alt2" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">23.91%</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt1" width="50%"> 10+, alpine </td> <td class="alt2" width="50%"> </td> <td class="alt1" title="Votes" align="center">3</td> <td class="alt2" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">6.52%</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt1" width="50%"> 0, parallel, freeride </td> <td class="alt2" width="50%"> </td> <td class="alt1" title="Votes" align="center">1</td> <td class="alt2" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">2.17%</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt1" width="50%"> 1-10, freeride </td> <td class="alt2" width="50%"> </td> <td class="alt1" title="Votes" align="center">5</td> <td class="alt2" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">10.87%</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt1" width="50%"> 11-20, freeride </td> <td class="alt2" width="50%"> </td> <td class="alt1" title="Votes" align="center">14</td> <td class="alt2" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">30.43%</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt1" width="50%"> 20+, freeride </td> <td class="alt2" width="50%"> </td> <td class="alt1" title="Votes" align="center">6</td> <td class="alt2" align="right" nowrap="nowrap">13.04%</td></tr></tbody></table>

[KingCrimson]

I guess one of those weirdos that rides the same angles.

65/65 or 67/67 on my Burners. Although I did 65/67 for a while too cuz the skinnier part of the board was by my back foot.

I ride 45/45 on my Frontier and 35/35 on the Canyon. Sometimes I splay on the back foot 3-5 degrees.

Why does this splay mean so much to you guys? Legs work together or not regardless of the angle of the toes.

Splay is very important for me. I a-frame pretty badly on heelsides.

Check out some pictures of Trappy. His photos are great because he's super skinny and you can easily see what all of his joints are doing. On heelsides, his knees are super far apart. There's no a-framing going on, which twists the board and screws up the carve (I'll prevent the can of worms here whether twist is good or not, we can ALL agree a straight board carves better than a twisted one in the middle of a turn)

[MUD]

I'll prevent the can of worms here whether twist is good or not

Good luck with that..........:D

[carvedog]

Splay is very important for me. I a-frame pretty badly on heelsides.

Check out some pictures of Trappy.

we can ALL agree a straight board carves better than a twisted one in the middle of a turn)

Not trying to be a contrarian but a twisted board in some kinds of conditions can act like a shock or suspension system particularly in rutted courses. I think of the twist as a torque to the board where you are not just balancing over the length and pressuring evenly but where you are trying to drive the sidewall edge into the snow. For me that seems to be aggressive torquing and twisting of the board but not just in the more commonly thought of vertical plane.

For me, it's a matter of feel rather than efficiency.

when my feet are parallel it "feels'' like pigeon toed, or like having my shoelaces tied together i.e. I feel I'm always about to trip. Just a few degrees of splay makes all the difference in the world and I suddenly feel very stable.

I did a poll on splay a while ago and only a few responders ride w/out splay.

Maybe not liking the feeling of parallel is why I splay on the wider canyon.

I don't feel parallel or even very symmetrical on anything more forward. I feel the asymetry in my hips and my feet. Different pressure points and I have never tried to make it feel like walking either which seems to have natural splay.

My reference is stance like a batter or.....you see how they balance back and forth and then right before the swing/turn knee rolls in, ankles flex. It's a homerun.

I do flex the heck out of everything I have ridden. Even with the injected foam liners ( stiffest so far), I regularly crack tongues, split shells, break forward leans.....but that could be because I am fat. I am getting more life out of my gear lately, but I fear that is a lack of riding as much as anything.

[KingCrimson]

Good luck with that..........:D

:lol:

It didn't take long either!

Not trying to be a contrarian but a twisted board in some kinds of conditions can act like a shock or suspension system particularly in rutted courses. I think of the twist as a torque to the board where you are not just balancing over the length and pressuring evenly but where you are trying to drive the sidewall edge into the snow. For me that seems to be aggressive torquing and twisting of the board but not just in the more commonly thought of vertical plane.

I have to be honest, I have no idea what you are talking about. Trying to drive the sidewall into the snow sounds like increasing edge angle to me..

As far as not just balancing and letting the board "ride," I'm not sure where twisting comes into play here.

[carvedog]

:lol:

It didn't take long either!

I have to be honest, I have no idea what you are talking about. Trying to drive the sidewall into the snow sounds like increasing edge angle to me..

As far as not just balancing and letting the board "ride," I'm not sure where twisting comes into play here.

Lay against a wall on your back with your feet against a wall. Angle 65 to your right or left as necessary. Sit up a bit if that makes you feel more comfortable. You can generate knee and ankle movements that cause your body to move by pushing against the wall but also against the carpet.

Now think about rolling one heel into the carpet followed by the other one and how that might affect the edge and getting different parts of it to engage.

Why smooth the vertical part of the edge if you aren't going to use it?