TrenchKnife Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 You are very stubborn ;) ... but Sigi also confirmed that the construction is the same ... You may want to recheck that. The construction is the same, but the amount of titanal is different between the two. This is why they have 2 separate models. Just weigh the two boards, I've ridden them both, and they're vastly different in flex and snap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrenchKnife Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 I bought my 163 Full Race T last fall from SEB, a junior racer.He told me that the 2009 model was stiffer than the 2008 one and that the Full Race and Full Race Pro Team were the same board except the Red Bull logo. The Jr. racer was understandably mistaken. Try riding each, or weighing each. I demoed each and purchased one based upon my demo rides. the SG technician with whom I spoke and rode definitely knew the product. They are marvelous snowboards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarvingScooby Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 The construction is the same, but the amount of titanal is different between the two.This is why they have 2 separate models. Just weigh the two boards, I've ridden them both, and they're vastly different in flex and snap. TALKING: Full Race Pro Team & Full Race Titan Hey TK, seems you have more handson exp w/ SG; Do u mind elaborate: What year the SG tested Which board has more Titanal. Is that also mean heavier with more Titanal? Which board is lot more flex ∨ snap What's your weigh when tested (incl gear) Thx RT Really interested in SG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big canuck Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 Did I mention I have one for sale that is basically brand new?!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarvingScooby Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 Did I mention I have one for sale that is basically brand new?!!! Need longer eff edge:rolleyes:, still a rookie:o. Thanks for the offer thou, RT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 Sigi was commenting on the boards' shapes, not their overall construction.Shapes are identical, materials are the same, but the thickness of the titanal laminate is different between the two. Weigh each board;) I was under the impression a thinner layer of titanal was more desirable. If this is the case, I'm not sure why it would be thicker on a "better" board. Bordy mentioned Kessler's titanal was .3mm, as opposed to .4mm. This was 2007, so I don't know what changed. I'd also be surprised if they bothered to stock the 2 different types of titanal.. Also, I would think any sort of weight differences are more from variances in core density than SG producing two seperate boards with the exact same specs. What's your take on the advantages of a thicker titanal layer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 The Jr. racer was understandably mistaken.Try riding each, or weighing each. I demoed each and purchased one based upon my demo rides. the SG technician with whom I spoke and rode definitely knew the product. They are marvelous snowboards 2008 Vs 2009...not 2009 Vs 2010 so I was right cause 2008 was the boards with the long nose wich are WAY softer!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterGold Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 The discussion here gets in the wrong direction ... all my information is directly from Sigi!!! I have the 2011 catalogue here ... it says 0,3mm titanal layer for both models ... and if you look at the website for this year, you will also find 0,3mm titanal layers for both boards ... as some said - what should be the advantage? mc-alex is an insider and he has both models ... he also knows what he is talking about ... The force is completely new - as I said before - the running length of the 165 is 15cm longer than this year´s 167!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piciu Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 let me google it for you :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrenchKnife Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 I didn't google there boards, I rode them;) ... with a tech rep. Night and day different ride, and the race model weighs more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted February 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 I didn't google there boards, I rode them;)... with a tech rep. Night and day different ride, and the race model weighs more. Nice, but can you enlighten us with the differences in ridingcharacteristics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 I didn't google there boards, I rode them;)... with a tech rep. Night and day different ride, and the race model weighs more. Or, more usefully, quantitative data? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc-alex Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 The discussion here gets in the wrong direction ... all my information is directly from Sigi!!! I have the 2011 catalogue here ... it says 0,3mm titanal layer for both models ... and if you look at the website for this year, you will also find 0,3mm titanal layers for both boards ... as some said - what should be the advantage?mc-alex is an insider and he has both models ... he also knows what he is talking about ... The force is completely new - as I said before - the running length of the 165 is 15cm longer than this year´s 167!!! Gerald, I have the same info, all identical. But, maybe a mistake when you look on the edge. The FR have a black topsheed base and the FR proteam have a white topsheed base, maybe this is a reason to think the titanal thickness is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterGold Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 Gerald, I have the same info, all identical.But, maybe a mistake when you look on the edge. The FR have a black topsheed base and the FR proteam have a white topsheed base, maybe this is a reason to think the titanal thickness is different. Good point, Mr SG!!! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piciu Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 I didn't google there boards, I rode them;)... with a tech rep. Night and day different ride, and the race model weighs more. still wrong... do you really believe Josh Wyle does not know which board to pick? Watch the set up he's working on in the beginning cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 still wrong... do you really believe Josh Wyle does not know which board to pick? Watch the set up he's working on in the beginning cheers, that video provided no data, what's your point? everyone but you all claims these boards are the same but have different graphics. including someone who says he's in contact with Sigi himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrenchKnife Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 I'm "still wrong"? how many SGs have you ridden ro do you own? You are welcome to ride mine anytime. I demoed both of these boards at st. Anton with the tech rep. I guess you know more than him because you saw a youtube vid. Thank you for enlightening me. imagine my gratitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrenchKnife Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 that video provided no data, what's your point?everyone but you all claims these boards are the same but have different graphics. including someone who says he's in contact with Sigi himself. I said they are different, based upon my conversations with Herr Grabner and my demo rides with his tech rep at St. Anton, and my eventual purchase of the race stocker after many runs on both. The difference is honestly dramatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 I said they are different, based upon my conversations with Herr Grabner and my demo rides with his tech rep at St. Anton, and my eventual purchase of the race stocker after many runs on both.The difference is honestly dramatic. right, I was pointing out that one person posted a video that proves nothing and also another person was posting data that was contrary to another person who also says they have talked with Grabner about it. IDK, this thread has gone wonky. I do have to say that kingcrimson's take on it is the same as mine. knowing the prices of the materials are so high for a minimum order I really can't see a small company like SG using two thicknesses of metal, adding more glass would make more sense or more rubber or more wood. however, if a ski company is pressing the boards they could use those resources to obtain materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 Could it be something as simple as different core thickness? It would make the difference in the weight and definitelly make dramatic difference in the flex (stifness of a beam increases by the ^3 of the thickness), even if all the other materials were the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted February 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 however, if a ski company is pressing the boards they could use those resources to obtain materials. ELAN was/is producing those SG Boards. They produce over 30% of the worldproduction of skis and snowboards. And I don't know what this fuss is going about. I don't care if this or that is thicker or thinner as long as those boards are looking good, that's the most important Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piciu Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 that video provided no data, what's your point?everyone but you all claims these boards are the same but have different graphics. including someone who says he's in contact with Sigi himself. I'm one of the voices claiming boards are the same, apart from graphics !!!!! Look trough my posts:) My point posting video was to show that if the Full Race T would have been different (worse, less racing built etc.) probably would never be used by AST racers... but it is. This of course proves nothing, provides no data but shows that Full Race T board is in use by top WC athletes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piciu Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 I'm "still wrong"? how many SGs have you ridden ro do you own? You are welcome to ride mine anytime. I demoed both of these boards at st. Anton with the tech rep. I guess you know more than him because you saw a youtube vid. Thank you for enlightening me. imagine my gratitude. I own: 1 x 185 Pro Team 2009 1 x 185 Pro Team 2010 2 x 163 Full Race T 2009 1 x 163 Pro Team 2010 + F2 SI & VIST 100+ days on snow race training per season. You are welcome to ride mine anytime and I'll be selling some of above quite soon. There's no point to continue, since the discussion leads to nowhere... however I must agree to one of your points, as you see I can do some comparison myself and you were right the weight is not consistent. There are tiny differences noticeable, however this is wood core component, which was pointed already by someone and not 0,1mm difference in titanium layer thickness. Also looking at glacier training camps of many european national teams, you'd see the SG boards Pro Team vs. Full Race are being used nearly random which believe me would have never happen if there was any construction difference, that includes Austrians, Germans... Fly over to Europe May-July and you'll see it yourself. And last, would you be so kind to describe the riding performance differences, that you had experienced? You're talking about those, but never described so far. This would be beneficial to lots of SG users. regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 I'm one of the voices claiming boards are the same, apart from graphics !!!!!Look trough my posts:) My point posting video was to show that if the Full Race T would have been different (worse, less racing built etc.) probably would never be used by AST racers... but it is. This of course proves nothing, provides no data but shows that Full Race T board is in use by top WC athletes. okay, gotchya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterGold Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 bola, thank you for making it even more confusing ... BUT that was not the point of the "discussion" - it was about Full Race Pro Team and Full Race Titan riding like "day and night", "vastly different flex and snap", different titanal thickness, etc. Maybe Sigi was untruthful to me, but why should he do that? Maybe the website and the new catalogue is wrong. Maybe mc-alex´s boards have the wrong construction ... etc., etc. And something else - this thread is about the 2010/2011 models ... and I assume that nobody here has ridden them yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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