SBX Clothing and other nonsense.

[Steve Prokopiw]

to me is that it all comes down to fashion.Pretty funny,considering the counter-culture attitude of snowboarding has come full circle to the point that it is possible a rider could choose tight fitting clothing and win,but be discredited because he or she didn't look the same as everybody else.What a bunch of fashion plates.Maybe they aren't secure with their manhood.Maybe they're stuck in high school, where image truly is everything.I would have no problem wearing clothing that made me more competitive if it was within the rules.I could give a crap what a bunch of fashion conscious jib bonkers think.Don't believe me;look at the 25 year old jacket and orange chrome helmet I'm wearing in the photo section.I freely admit that I love to show off,but I could care less what you think of my clothes.

On the other hand,I started doing triathlons last season,and I draw the line at the 'mankini' two piece tri suit.Of course,my one piece designed specifically to be faster on the bike doesn't look a whole lot better,but is as it turns out, several minutes faster than a mankini and up to ten minutes faster in a full length Ironman than a regular tri top with pockets.For me that's a no-brainer.

And one last thing; Lyndsey Vonn looks way better in a speed suit than Jacobellis looks in baggies.

[mnfusion]

While I get the argument that about speed suits vs traditional snowboarding attire...what has made me laugh the most is that on this site a person who enjoys carving in soft boots vs hard boots is 'discredited' as being less of a carver than someone in hard boots. There is just an irony there for me.

As someone who has been riding for 25 years and has fought to even get snowboarding allowed on the hills in the early days, I enjoy that snowboarding has stayed close to its roots of soft boots and baggy clothing. Ever since its early days, snowboarding has always been about style, whether its in your riding or what you are wearing. I for one support stigmatizing those that chose to look like a skier in Bx. Speed suits have their place in snowboarding and that is in alpine events. Bx is not an alpine event. To me, Bx is everything snowboarding is about. Hell, me and my friends used to Bx on the hills before Bx ever had a name.

I used to have a hard boot set up and I sold it. Why? It killed me to stray so far from what snowboarding is. I am sorry if some here don't get that, but I have more fun laying carves in my softies than I ever did on a hard boot set up.

So go ahead and flame on me because I have an opinion that differs from the 'norm' on here. I ride soft boots. I carve. I turn heads where ever I ride. I am damn good. I'm not changing and neither should snowboarding.

[zoltan]

My last post in this thread, I swear. :)

Speed suits are not terribly expensive...

Yes, because XC skiing and boardercross are exactly the same.

No need to anti-establishment conspiracies. If given the choice of having to wear a speedsuit to be competitive and not having to wear one to be competitive, who is going to choose stuffing themselves into one?

They were never a wide spread thing in bike downhill, though you did see them, and no one shed a tear when they were outlawed. No one wants to see them come back either.

Not so fast, if you will pardon the obvious pun...

...and the playing field remains level. If everyone goes to speedsuits, then no one gains an edge by going to speedsuits.

Is it progress when BX and such are dominated by a one or two manufacturers? Isn't that just a bit NASCAResque?

Because there's so much progress to be made with aero clothing? Really? How much more development can you really have there?

The fact Kessler and Oxxess are the top of the heap right now is because they are progressive and innovative. It is now the job of other manufacturers to catch up. How are you down on this, when this is exactly where so many of the exciting new technologies of the past several years have come from? How are you so high on spandex, and yet so down on cutting edge board technology?

It seems that competitive skiing has progressed far more...

I can't tell you about skiing, but snowboard technology has been advancing at a steady pace for the past several years. It sure seems like we're doing pretty well.

[b0ardski]

crotchkneed poseurs that can slide a rail but can't use an edge for any thing but heelside bulldozing are not the individualists seeking non-establishment style from the 80s,

they are more of a fashion victim than the skiers they hate on while sliding on their laminated metal edge boards down a ski run at a ski area to ride a ski lift to the top of a ski mountain to enjoy the same things a skier does:smashfrea

[Jack M]

Yes, because XC skiing and boardercross are exactly the same.

I would place a tall wager that there is more money in snowboarding. The athletes can afford speed suits. End of speed-suit-cost argument.

...and the playing field remains level. If everyone goes to speedsuits, then no one gains an edge by going to speedsuits.

Speed suits will increase the speed of the rider. This increases the challenge of the race, and will weed out lesser riders who can't deal with the extra speed.

[pokkis]

Speed suits would also equalize speeds riders COULD get so for that sense it give better change for all of them. Now it is more or less to get as tight as possible but still baggy looking cloths

And as Jack wrote added speed would make things more challenging.

[Jack M]

I enjoy that snowboarding has stayed close to its roots of soft boots and baggy clothing.

roots?

[mnfusion]

Ha ha...yea, the 80's were a cruel decade. It hurts to see kids today wearing 80s fashions. That decade should have never seen the light of day again...lol

[Jack M]

While I get the argument that about speed suits vs traditional snowboarding attire...what has made me laugh the most is that on this site a person who enjoys carving in soft boots vs hard boots is 'discredited' as being less of a carver than someone in hard boots. There is just an irony there for me.

There is simply too much of a mechanical advantage to hardboots and race boards to be denied. There are no racers using softboots. Anyone carving in softboots is doing so at a lesser capacity by any objective measure. I'm not saying anything about who is having more fun.

Ever since its early days, snowboarding has always been about style, whether its in your riding or what you are wearing. I for one support stigmatizing those that chose to look like a skier in Bx.

I'm sorry for you that you are such a slave to fashion.

Speed suits have their place in snowboarding and that is in alpine events. Bx is not an alpine event. To me, Bx is everything snowboarding is about.

Then why do relatively few snowboarders care about bx? Why are so few bx boards sold? Why doesn't Burton even make a single one?

The fact that fashion even enters into a non-judged speed event is so incredibly pathetic. I think sbx is the only event where this is the case. Weak.

I used to have a hard boot set up and I sold it. Why? It killed me to stray so far from what snowboarding is. I am sorry if some here don't get that, but I have more fun laying carves in my softies than I ever did on a hard boot set up.

Then you never learned to operate one correctly.

I'm not changing

This says you are not here to learn and contribute, but rather to argue and assert an agenda with a closed mind. Trolls are not allowed here.

[trailertrash]

Seriously, what is it with the softboot trolls this year? Is it me or is there a ton of them this year?

Mnfusion, your tone sounds exactly like the tone that snowboarders had to deal with from skiers in the early days.

I ski. I carve. I turn heads where ever I ski. I am damn good. I'm not changing and neither should skiing.

You have become what "we" were all "rebelling" against. Change is so scary.

[queequeg]

Mnfusion, your tone sounds exactly like the tone that snowboarders had to deal with from skiers in the early days.

You have become what "we" were all "rebelling" against. Change is so scary.

Good call.

[mnfusion]

Jack, sorry but lots of assumptions on your part.

#1 - I said style, not fashion. Those are two very different things.

#2 - I knew how to ride my hard boot set up very well and rocked it. That is very arrogant to assume otherwise just because I choose to stay in soft boots over hard.

#3 - I never once said or inferred that hard boots don't have a greater mechanical advantage over soft or that you are better off racing in a hard set up. But as someone who races BX and has used hard boot equipment, I would never want to race Bx in hard boots. The ability to make minute adjustments with a soft set up makes them superior to hard in a Bx course IMO...not to mention the greater control over jumps.

#4 I am not here to speak for all of snowboarding as to why they care or don't care about Bx. My opinion is that most resorts are not willing to set up a Bx course and leave it as one of their runs. It takes time and effort to set up a Bx course and I am sure there is a liability issue behind the scenes too. Why do you see more park/pipe/slopestyle events in snowboarding? Because it is easier for the resorts to make these features and leave them then it is to create and maintain a proper Bx course. Until resorts are willing to do that, Bx will remain a novelty event.

#5 Contributing does not mean simply agreeing to the dominate point of view of the thread. Contributing means adding to and being open to other points of view which I am, but it is clear that others here are not. If I don't think that hard boot carving is superior in every way to soft boot carving and I don't repent my ways then I am stigmatized here. Sorry, I have tried both and I prefer soft boots over hard. My opinion and others should be open to it instead of criticizing about it. I used to ski race, I tried snowboarding one weekend back in 1987 and never went back to skies after that weekend. I learned on a K2 alpine board. My first board was a Burton PJ. I have been a dedicated carver ever since. So please don't sit back and tell me that I am not 'good enough' because I choose softies over hard or that something is wrong with me. I have downhill ski raced, I have cross country ski raced, I have raced snowboards in both alpine, Bx and halfpipe. I think I have enough 'experience' to know what I like and what I don't and not to be blindly criticized for it.

Thank you for your time.

[mnfusion]

and I have been on this site since 2005. Sorry I changed my user name this year because someone had a name too close to what I was using. Sorry, I guess that makes me a troll:sleep:

[Loc]

Mnfusion, your tone sounds exactly like the tone that snowboarders had to deal with from skiers in the early days.

You have become what "we" were all "rebelling" against. Change is so scary.

+1. That was exactly my though when I read the lecture on looking and riding like everyone else in the community and stigmatizing anyone who goes against the grain.:lol:

[heroshmero]

Good point, but do they have a rule for how baggy your clothing has to be? Because I'd be wearing the tightest threads I could. Speed suits would eliminate any clothing bagginess argument/judgment.

I don't think anybody answered this question...

From what I understand there is a "pinch" rule in regards to uniforms. There needs to be enough slack in the fabric of the uniform to pinch between the finger and thumb.

To add my opinion, if the event is about speed and awarding those that cross the finish line first then why try to slow them down with baggy suits?

If the event is about style then it doesn't matter. Show up in a gorilla suit if you want.

[Jack M]

#1 - I said style, not fashion. Those are two very different things.

Ever since its early days, snowboarding has always been about style, whether its in your riding or what you are wearing.

what you are wearing = fashion.

(On a side note, have you noticed that halfpipe is becoming less about style? Now we have compulsory maneuvers. And if your bag doesn't include a double-cork, and as of last night a double mctwist 1260, you may as well go home.)

#2 - I knew how to ride my hard boot set up very well and rocked it. That is very arrogant to assume otherwise just because I choose to stay in soft boots over hard.

It's not much of a stretch to make that assumption. In my 22 years snowboarding, I have seen precisely one person in softboots come anywhere near what we do in hardboots (VQ), but that was on the green circles of Stratton, and on a very long board. Also there is a trend on this site that people who explicitly state how great they are, like you did, are eventually found out in person to be hacks.

#3 - I never once said or inferred that hard boots don't have a greater mechanical advantage over soft

on this site a person who enjoys carving in soft boots vs hard boots is 'discredited' as being less of a carver than someone in hard boots.

My response to that is that someone who enjoys carving in softboots more than hardboots is carving at a lesser capacity. Does that make them less of a carver? From the point of view of who is carving faster, harder, more precisely, yes, yes it does. From the point of view of who is having more fun, maybe so and maybe not.

But as someone who races BX and has used hard boot equipment, I would never want to race Bx in hard boots. The ability to make minute adjustments with a soft set up makes them superior to hard in a Bx course IMO...not to mention the greater control over jumps.

Never said anything about hardbooting in bx. Softboots are superior in bx for the reasons you state.

#4 I am not here to speak for all of snowboarding as to why they care or don't care about Bx. My opinion is that most resorts are not willing to set up a Bx course and leave it as one of their runs. It takes time and effort to set up a Bx course and I am sure there is a liability issue behind the scenes too. Why do you see more park/pipe/slopestyle events in snowboarding? Because it is easier for the resorts to make these features and leave them then it is to create and maintain a proper Bx course. Until resorts are willing to do that, Bx will remain a novelty event.

You said it yourself, you and your friends used to bx before bx. Who didn't? Surely you did not build your own bx courses. The whole mountain is a bx course. If you are not in the halfpipe, and not in hardboots, you are basically bx'ing. BX boards <i>should</i> be the most popular snowboards sold. But they're not. Weird.

#5 Contributing does not mean simply agreeing to the dominate point of view of the thread. Contributing means adding to and being open to other points of view which I am, but it is clear that others here are not.

I'm not changing and neither should snowboarding.

Real open mind you have there.

If I don't think that hard boot carving is superior in every way to soft boot carving and I don't repent my ways then I am stigmatized here.

For carving, hardboots are superior in every way to softboots. This is a fact proven in the race course and by freecarvers every day. Now, if you don't get off on trying to nail a run top to bottom carving every turn, and you like to jump into the woods or surf the edges or tweak some airs in between carves, then sure softboots may be better for you.

I tried snowboarding one weekend back in 1987

As someone who has been riding for 25 years

which one is it?

So please don't sit back and tell me that I am not 'good enough' because I choose softies over hard or that something is wrong with me.

To be fair I don't know if your primary objective above all others is to consistently carve as powerfully as possible on expert terrain. That is the goal of a lot of people here. To anybody who shares that goal, hardboots are the only logical conclusion. If your snowboarding is more of a mixed bag, then sure, enjoy your softies. You came off as hostile and superior to hardbooters, and closed minded. You got the response you were asking for.

[xy9ine]

the same clothing issue arose in dh mountainbiking. though skinsuits demonstrably improve times on fast courses, they were perceived to negatively affect the image / marketability of the sport (in favor of more mx inspired baggy kit) by most of the racers (top guys, such as the current world champ vociferously opposed them). as such, the race governing body followed suit & legislated against skin tight clothing, and i believe has a similar 'pinch' rule in effect. the image vs performance issue as an interesting one for sure. necessary for the growth of 'fringe' sports such as these perhaps?

[jolson]

I find it ironic anyone championing the snowboarders unwritten code of free spirit /live and let live mantra would flame on what someone else is wearing....(sounds like fashion elitism)...skin suit or gorilla suit or anything inbetween.........especially if your going to stand in the starting blocks ...........you better let the first place finish do your talking and how you got there ought to be your choice within current rules....others be d*****

[Jack M]

I find it ironic anyone championing the snowboarders unwritten code of free spirit /live and let live mantra would flame on what someone else is wearing.

Exactly. Someone used to have this quote in their sig... something like "the only thing a non-conformist hates more than a conformist, is another non-conformist who doesn't conform to the prevailing standards of non-conformity."

[BlueB]

I guess, the only way to be a true non-conformist in snowboarding is to ride hard boots.

On the other hand, the way to be a non-conformist on Bomber, is to prefer soft boots for carving...

And back to topic: Well done Seth! Watching the race, I was almost shure our guy would get it, then Seth pulled off his magic, again. I bow to the king.

[queequeg]

http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=8382

[BlueB]

Ah, Queequeg playing Tex, now :D

For those who care to know:

mnfusion = boarderboy73

[Jack M]

mnfusion = boarderboy73

not anymore, I merged the accounts.

[mnfusion]

Thank you. I did not know you could do that.

BlueB - all you had to do was ask. I changed my handle bc there was another boarderboy. No other reason than that.

Jack - I rarely jump anymore. No desire to anymore (once you have a mortgage, your priorities really start to change...lol). You know what, I never came on here to hate on hard booters. I have done both and prefer soft over hard. Sorry, I know it is hard to believe, but it is not bc I have some sort of lesser ability (as you infer) it is what I prefer. So why do you (and many others) feel the need to be elitist? There is so much hate on this forum (burton sucks, soft boots suck, if you ride anything else than a $2000 metal set up you suck, if you don't thinks hard boots are the best you suck, etc). This is an amazing resource for ANYONE interested in the carving aspect of the sport...for both hard and soft carvers...so why is it so hard to be open to all carvers and not just the elite few?

What I think is really funny is all I really said was that I supported Nate in his comments towards the Canadian boarder and that I think speed suits have their place in Alpine events only. I never once stated that hard boots suck or are inferior or anything of the sort. I did state to go ahead and flame on me because I knew those on here would because I am a 'soft booter' and there is little tolerance on here for anyone who differs from the majority. So you all took my comments out of their intended context, ignored the point of the post, hated on me for riding soft boots, and assumed alot that was never said. That is really sad.

On a different note...Holy **** that half pipe was crazy last night. Those kids are doing tricks now strait out of video games. Who ever would have thought tricks would progress this far. I am afraid to see what these guys and girls are gonna be doing in 4 more years!

[trailertrash]

Mnfusion, your tone said more than your words did in your first post in this thread.

There seems to be sooooo many soft boot trolls on here saying they kill it on soft boots but when you ask for video proof of them actually carving the excuses start flowing.