Bruce Varsava Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 nice to know that you are still building glass boards....you certainly make it hard to keep a stable bank balance OOOOPS! Sorry but all I do are Titanal boards but control the flex/rebound by the amount of glass/carbon I use along with it. Have not built a pure glass board in about 2 years. Looks like your bank account is safe:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 OOOOPS!Sorry but all I do are Titanal boards but control the flex/rebound by the amount of glass/carbon I use along with it. Have not built a pure glass board in about 2 years. Looks like your bank account is safe:lol: sigh....I guess I have to wait until after I graduate from college Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnasmo Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 I have a 177 M, non-turbo, and think it's a great board. It loves steep hardpack, but beware soft snow conditions. I did a full day (40,000+ vertical) at Targhee on Sunday, and it was great in the morning, but struggled once the snow got soft. Normally, I would have switched to soft gear at that point, but Dave R. and I decided to keep on carving, he on a "Classic" (I don't like the name "utility stick") and me on the VSR 177. The "Classic" proved more versatile in the soft conditions. Mind you, this was crazy soft, 5+ inch trenching conditions, but we were determined carve to last chair in the interest of science. I could have switched to my Monster, but wanted to figure out the VSR. The nose was flexing quite a bit, hunting and digging in the soft snow. Initiating turns from the back and staying in the back seat throughout the turns was necessary to keep the front under control, but then the back would push out. Perhaps due to the tighter rear radius and stiffer tail. This was a day more suited to constant sidecut and flex patterns, or whatever it is that makes the classic shape such a classic. My trenches were messy from the hunting nose and blowing out tail, but the classic's remained more normal. Bruce, is the Turbo full carbon throughout, tip to tail? I would like a firmer nose, but not really to add pop to it, nor to change behavior of the rest of the board -- would it be better to thicken the core further into the nose and stick to the non-Turbo laminate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Just side note ;) NSR looks to be going quite nicely thru soft mush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zone Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 I have a 177 M, non-turbo, and think it's a great board. It loves steep hardpack, but beware soft snow conditions. I did a full day (40,000+ vertical) at Targhee on Sunday, and it was great in the morning, but struggled once the snow got soft. Normally, I would have switched to soft gear at that point, but Dave R. and I decided to keep on carving, he on a "Classic" (I don't like the name "utility stick") and me on the VSR 177. The "Classic" proved more versatile in the soft conditions. Mind you, this was crazy soft, 5+ inch trenching conditions, but we were determined carve to last chair in the interest of science. I could have switched to my Monster, but wanted to figure out the VSR.The nose was flexing quite a bit, hunting and digging in the soft snow. Initiating turns from the back and staying in the back seat throughout the turns was necessary to keep the front under control, but then the back would push out. Perhaps due to the tighter rear radius and stiffer tail. This was a day more suited to constant sidecut and flex patterns, or whatever it is that makes the classic shape such a classic. My trenches were messy from the hunting nose and blowing out tail, but the classic's remained more normal. Interesting, my first day on mine was at SOS, with 2-3' on top of hard pack and I had the same feeling. Should have taken out the Dual to try instead but first day out on new board I persisted like you and have to watch the nose (not a huge deal but still have to watch that nose). However conditions like that are rare around here and on hard pack the board has been just fun and effortless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Bruce, is the Turbo full carbon throughout, tip to tail? I would like a firmer nose, but not really to add pop to it, nor to change behavior of the rest of the board -- would it be better to thicken the core further into the nose and stick to the non-Turbo laminate? OOOOPS!Sorry but all I do are Titanal boards but control the flex/rebound by the amount of glass/carbon I use along with it. Have not built a pure glass board in about 2 years. I didn't tried the VSR on soft snow yet. Thank you for sharing the finding. -- David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 My 170 (Turbo) doesn't like soft snow all that much either. Similar findings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zone Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Hotbeans, You sent me a message but your email needs to be turned on and your email address needs to be updated. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortcutToMoncton Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 I should just break down and order a Stubby since I know I'm gonna "NEED" that too! Don't even bother. The VSR is a far better board than the Stubby! (Sorry Bruce... :p ) greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted February 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Angie, I'm the Evil one :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Don't even bother. The VSR is a far better board than the Stubby! LOL, gotta agree with that one. Of course you could always think bigger... a Monsterette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Donnelly Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Hey Buggs. A VSR was riiden today by uncle smooth :-))). I may take a turn tomorrow but I keep asking myself why as my Mini-Monster is F'n fantastic????? had turns great turns today!! L8R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnasmo Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Don't even bother. The VSR is a far better board than the Stubby! (Sorry Bruce... :p ) greg Love the VSR, but also have a Monster and have demoed Schtubby and NSRs of various forms at the SES. They're all pretty darn versatile, but accentuate different characteristics so the trick is to match them to your mountain and the riding you like, or have them all and match them to the snow conditions of the day. Here are my impressions of some of Bruce's work: VSR: Loves lay down back to back turns on steeper hardpack. Nose hunts a little bit when just cruising or when the snow gets soft. Can really turn this thing on a dime when you want and squirt out the other side. Don't need to drive the nose, initiates turns on its own. Twist the tail to adjust more than riding the tail. Variable flex too; really soft nose but stiffer between bindings and through the tail. Encourages you to end turns early and throw down the next one. NSR: Likes to do what the VSR does, only faster, bigger, and with more weight shift. Get on the nose to turn tight, get on the tail to open er up. More torsionally stiff (?); more shift, less twist (?). Softer in nose than tail, but not so much as the VSR. Monster: The big easy. Big variable SCRs, tighter in front than rear, but not the tight, long, medium triple play of the VSR. The flex is more uniform front to back than the VSR. Probably averages out softer than a corresponding VSR, but the flex is distributed more evenly, with softness in both nose and tail. The decambering runs back a little farther too. Will do bigger turns, but the softer and tighter radius nose lets you squeeze out tight turns when you want to for such big SCRs. Scrubs speed when doing so, which is part of what makes it so easy to ride all over the mountain. Likes to finish turns before going on to the next. Schtubby: The little easy. More uniform flex and sidecut, generally being softish throughout but with long SCRs for their size. Layed down turns get relatively tight for the sidecuts, so don't enter as fast as the above boards, but loves to slalom cruisers more than they do. Very fun and comfortable boards. Classic (aka utility stick): Think VSR without so much V. More consistent (classic, traditional) flex and sidecut. A truly classic all day, all snow condition board. A little under appreciated these days, but some days a radial sidecut DOES work best. Angry: Probably my next purchase. Big smile fun from a little package. Slow it down and just turn, turn, turn. An aerobic Schtubby. Carve on a cat track? No problem. Turn, turn, turn, giggle, giggle, giggle. But I guess he can't call it the "Happy". Think a mini-me VSR in sidecuts, though I think the flex may be more uniform (?). Bruce may respond that I'm full of **** and tell you what they're really all about, but the bottom line is that ya friggin' need ALL of them! Yet, if you can only own one, the VSR is pretty darn versatile while remaining lively in it's sweet spot. If your hill has cruisers where you like to pick up and carry a lot of speed, opt for the "turbo" package (more carbon) to stiffen it up for higher turn entry speeds. If you're cranking slower turns on the steeps, keep it playfully "plain". Time to go ride now... (day 76 of the snow sports season). Opps, forgot breakfast. Hurry, hurry... Is this a bad thread to say I also loved this year's Donek 175 FC Metal? NSR-like, with a good recreational sidecut. Tested at Buttermilk, though, with nothing steeper than Tiehack, but felt g o o d. So many boards, so little time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 ... and it was a pleasure watching you turn at SES. I own 4 of the 6 boards on the list, and have ridden at least one of the other two. Overall my impressions are quite similar... but I'd like to add a few of my own thoughts as they may benefit others trying to decide. VSR: My 170 Tight and the 177 Medium+ at SES do share most of the characteristics that johnasmo mentions, but they are very different in some ways too. My Tight is nervous, in a good way, especially on gentler pitches. The Medium+, on the other hand, had an NSR-like stability, and was anything but nervous on any terrain. Also, with both VSRs I found myself getting them to hook up hard, almost violently, just using my ankles. Usuallay a good thing, but has caught me by surprise on several occasions ;) If you're thinking about an NSR but not sure you want to go *that* fast a 177 Medium+ VSR might be just the ticket. NSR: Incredibly stable at speed. Very maneuverable for such a fast board... but make no mistake, you can easily pick up a lot of speed in a short time on one, even if you are keeping it on edge. Monster: nothing to add, johnasmo said everything that I feel about mine. Schtubby: I've never felt the love for these, to be honest... well, maybe I would have 3 or 4 years ago but I really feel the other boards on this list offer so much more. The one I liked best was the prototype 164 / 14.7 that John O'Brien just bought from me. Classic/US: Agreed, under-appreciated. In my personal opinion, it's not the radial sidecut that is better some days but the incredibly friendly flex pattern. The sweet spot, on my 177/14.2 anyways, is the whole board. I can do no wrong on it. And believe me I have my moments where you'd never know I've got the mileage on me that I do! I doubt I will ever sell mine. Angrry: I need to try one that's built for someone my wight instead of 30 pounds under my weight, so that I can appreciate it. One of each? Nah, I'll take two VSR's and no Schtubbies and one of each of the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave ESPI Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 Having ridden the 177 also, I have to agree with what John and Mike said. A lot of people were making great turns all week. Some boards made people better, some boards showed people areas they needed to improve. I for one found some discrepancies in my ride style, and adjusted accordingly to a few boards, and they then performed much better ( SWOARD extreme carver for example) when applying different techniques. I can add only this: for a 150# light guy the NSR or the VSR 188 (heavy) was stiffer than I liked, but at speed 40+mph they were rock solid and turned with ease (I say this tennetively because I almost ended up in the woods once because I could not break it out of a carve and had to turn it uphill hard to burn off the speed). I attribute the stiffness and rider mas to weight and ability to flex the board as many of the beefier guys who rode the "mooseknuckle" board that was set for a 140-160# rider felt it was too soft and noodley were loving the stiffer bigger boards and conversely felt more comfortable on it. As to the "Schtubby" I felt weird on a "short board" that rode "long". I would look down and see a 150something under my feet, but feel like I was on a 180something. Did anyone else have a similar sensation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffV Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 As to the "Schtubby" I felt weird on a "short board" that rode "long". I would look down and see a 150something under my feet, but feel like I was on a 180something. Did anyone else have a similar sensation? Uh that is the whole point of the Schtubby. Shorter board with bigger sidecut= a stable board with more versatility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave ESPI Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 Uh that is the whole point of the Schtubby. Shorter board with bigger sidecut= a stable board with more versatility. I agree, just saying that it feels weird is all :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shred Gruumer Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 I got the first original... the INfitrator 161 It has a 14.5m side cut .. it really f.....ss . with you ... You think its going to turn short but it don't.. Bruce did a great job of making it stiff so it handles speed.. fun wierd board that started it all... I just rode it today..and its still a keeper... But its open for a reasonable $$$ RSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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