newcarver Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 I know this has been asked many times, but need a refresher. I am having some trouble on my heelside turns. I get a slight wavy pattern to my carve on the last 1/3 of the turn. I don't really lose the edge but I can feel it undulate a little. Carved lines have variation in width up to about 3". I have tried reaching with my outside hand to the boot cuff and it helps some. I think it is in the nose although sometimes it feels like the tail to me. This is on moderatelly steep blues. Have no problems with toe side turns. Info on me and board 160lbs 5' 9", 26.5 M, Sims Burner 167, Snowpro Race plates at 60 F 50 R, AF700 boots with BTS and yellow springs. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebu Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 We're gonna hear somebody say you should get a new board with the decambered nose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 Move up to blue BTS springs. I have had a similar issue and am pretty sure the undulation comes from too soft of springs for your riding. If your springs are too soft, there is nothing to stop the top and bottom springs from developing a back and forth bounce between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 We're gonna hear somebody say you should get a new board with the decambered nose. If you want a smoother ride and better handling board through all kinds of conditions, yes, you are right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcarver Posted February 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 Buell, Would you go blue on both top and bottom? New metal board is on wish list for next season. This year I'm just getting better and riding a real race board. Have been on AM/FC type boards with lower angles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 and a metal board. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 and a metal board. :D I think a Kessler would solve the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 Buell, Would you go blue on both top and bottom? New metal board is on wish list for next season. This year I'm just getting better and riding a real race board. Have been on AM/FC type boards with lower angles. I did not experiment. I just went straight from yellow to blue top and bottom when I was having that issue. It worked. The problem for me also started with an improvement in my riding. I actually just ordered red springs because the blue just started doing it to me. If it is the same issue (sounds like it) there is no adjustment to my riding that I could find that would fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 seriously though, have you tried moving the bindings forward? Try an inch forward of wherever you are now. If you're already all the way forward, try backing off a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkaholic Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 Newcarver, As someone who has seen you ride I can tell you that you tend to "Park and Ride" once in the turn. You make good moves to get the carve going then once it has started you "Park" your body and go for a "Ride". You need to keep feeding the board forward through the turn and be proactive in where you want the board to go and what you want it to do. Ink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 Weird - what happened to "run what you brung"? I'm pretty sure once upon a time most of us here (myself included), had the "scalloped undulating" heelside problem and then solved it, before we were riding springs, metal boards, or reverse cambered nose boards. For me, it happened because I was unwinding (counterrotating) at the end of my heelside turn. I would start out the turn looking downslope (which was rotating my hips towards the nose of the board) and finish still looking downslope (which slowly unwound my hips towards the toeside edge of the board as the turn progressed), and at the end of the turn the board would undulate and the track would scallop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcarver Posted February 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 Thanks for the replys. Ink you are right about me needing to feed the board out of the turns. Getting better at it. Still a little hesitant with edge to edge transitions. Working on being more aggressive which has been paying off. Might try moving my front foot a forward a tad too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinpa Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Recent advise given to me for my heelsides: My problem was that when that started, I tended to let off and release it a bit. I had fallen too many times when the edge just wouldn't hold. Someone along the way advised me to get a longer board, which maybe did help some. However, I was recently advised to flex more (ie get lower) at the end and make sure my center of mass isn't getting too far back. Every heelside I would try to think "lower" and "reach forward" (some with my hands, but also my center of mass). It did seem to work, until my legs just got too tired and couldn't do it anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frunobulax Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 +1 to kjl.. that really sounds kinda weird.. not sure if I simply missed a joke since I'm not that familiar with BOL talk.. but "if you got HS problems buy a metal Kessler an blue springs!"??? you can't be serious. Ok a Sims Burner is not top notch gear anymore, but IMO it will serve most purposes. I'd guess that 90 percent of HS problems are the effect of counter-rotation remnants. And on the other hand, if someone has already been given anti-counter-rotation advice (e.g. in a pureboarding clinic), he may tend to over-rotate and put too much weight on the front foot, resulting in classical oversteer like in a front-engine/RWD car. The first type can be cured with eliminating counter-rotation (you'll find advice for that all over the forum), the second one with shifting your weight a bit back and flexing your knees a bit more. Maybe also with some more commitment. If reaching to the boot cuff helps I'd guess you belong to the first type. If you have been a softbooter it is probable that you rotate only your shoulders, while your hips stay counter-rotated. Seen that with many former softbooters. So the boot cuff thing won't cure it completely, since it allows your hips to stay counter-rotated. Some video footage of yourself could be of great help.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RideGuy Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 I had the heal side wobble in some of my turns. Adding heal lift got rid of it. Not sure if it's compensating for something I'm doing wrong but I haven't had the wobble since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Remove the longitudinal twist from the board. A twisted board is trying to make two separate turns 'simultaneously'. Wobble can be mitigated by most previous suggestions; most often traced back to boot/binding configuration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 +1 to kjl.. that really sounds kinda weird.. not sure if I simply missed a joke since I'm not that familiar with BOL talk.. but "if you got HS problems buy a metal Kessler an blue springs!"??? you can't be serious. Of course the Kessler and metal board stuff was a joke. Stiffening up the flex on the boot by changing springs was not. The yellow springs are really soft and do not have the stiffness to power the edge as one rides harder. On top of that, there is nothing to keep a bounce from developing between the upper and lower springs. From what I can tell, this bounce is most pronounced when the springs are too soft. Of course technique can alway be improved for all of us and there is a reasonable chance that is the issue as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RideGuy Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 For me it was definitely not a bounce. Beckmann description sounds bang on to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frunobulax Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Of course the Kessler and metal board stuff was a joke. Stiffening up the flex on the boot by changing springs was not. The yellow springs are really soft and do not have the stiffness to power the edge as one rides harder. On top of that, there is nothing to keep a bounce from developing between the upper and lower springs. From what I can tell, this bounce is most pronounced when the springs are too soft. Of course technique can alway be improved for all of us and there is a reasonable chance that is the issue as well. Ok :o I should have guessed. But I'm still surprised that everyone seems to concentrate so much on gear issues. Sure, there is a chance that the wobble comes from bad gear or a bad setup. I can think of many more possibilities (short stance, forward lean, heellift/cant, setback...) But most of the guys here in EU ride yellow springs (ok, I use blue springs, but I'm much heavier and ride a 195 cm board) and I never heard of a connection between soft springs and wobble problems. There are even a lot of people riding in walk mode without springs, without wobbling. Plus, a 167 Burner is quite a soft and short board. I don't think it would be useful to combine it with a very stiff boot/springs/binding setup. I had a hard time to teach my formerly softbooting brother how to ride alpine, and it was all about rotation. When he finally got the clue, he had changed his boot setup from stiff to loose/walk mode, but despite his board is quite soft there is no wobbling at all after he got rid of his counter-rotated hips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 For me it was definitely not a bounce. Beckmann description sounds bang on to me. The bounce is between the top and bottom springs. The translation to the edge is a wobble / wavy lines. There is a distinct inability to make micro adjustments to the edge when your boots are too soft. At some point the board can flex your springs for you. As I said above, technique can alway be improved for all of us and there is a reasonable chance that is the issue as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Make a plate out of your sims and have it live on riding your new deck !!:lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 look where you are going. if you just look down the fall-line, your body alignment will open up as the turn comes around and you'll be facing the toeside edge. board and body should turn as one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RideGuy Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 The bounce is between the top and bottom springs. The translation to the edge is a wobble / wavy lines. There is a distinct inability to make micro adjustments to the edge when your boots are too soft. At some point the board can flex your springs for you.As I said above, technique can alway be improved for all of us and there is a reasonable chance that is the issue as well. I see what you're saying, but I had the wobble when I rode my Burton Fire's. So it's definitely not the springs for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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