Keyser Soze Posted February 8, 2010 Report Share Posted February 8, 2010 True, before Apex he rode Hangl and nothing. But like most racers trying to find an advantage I would bet that he has tried all of the more common plates and some not as common in search of what works best for him. Right, I'm sure he's tried it, but I don't think I've ever actually seen him race on a VIST. I'm basically just asking SunSurfer if he's sure Jasey's on a VIST equipped board, because that would make his point about the VIST moot. Even though Bola came through and :AR15firinit already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Thanks for spotting my error. Checking FIS photos on the podium of JJA in the race that photo comes from show his board equipped with Hangl plates. I had made an assumption based on what I saw of the plate in the original photo. I have edited the original post to just show detail of the front pivot of the Karl plate to stay strictly to the original line of thread, to show the various plate systems in use. SunSurfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 I have edited the original post to just show detail of the front pivot of the Karl plate to stay strictly to the original line of thread, to show the various plate systems in use. And too make Bola, Ink, Oldsnowboards and me, look like wackos talking to ourselves... What's wrong with admiting the mitake AND leaving the stuff just as it was? Reader would then see the comments and conclude for himself whats right or wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Can you tell the difference ? In my opinion the apex is the only one that can complement the performance of the board the others just interfere with it's performance. It may sound harsh but look closely at the contact points and try to picture what they really do to the board (distorting its shape in critical places when the board should have natural contact with the ground)The fingers on the tinkler do this as does the mass of the hangl. By lifting the plate off the board most undesirable traits are gone.This allows the board to do what it is naturally designed to do. Agree or Disagree ?? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Can you tell the difference ? In my opinion the apex is the only one that can complement the performance of the board the others just interfere with it's performance. It may sound harsh but look closely at the contact points and try to picture what they really do to the board (distorting its shape in critical places when the board should have natural contact with the ground)The fingers on the tinkler do this as does the mass of the hangl. By lifting the plate off the board most undesirable traits are gone.This allows the board to do what it is naturally designed to do. Agree or Disagree ?? :D From a purely mechanical point of view, in theory the Apex should work better because it has almost no footprint on the board. As far as I can tell, it basically contacts the board at two lines (bars), so the rest of the board is allowed to flex naturally. The rear bar appears to be fixed and the front bar appears to be able to slide or roll in a slot. Great concept. This should eliminate most of the friction that is inherent in other systems where the plate/board interface is a large area. And it would seem that it is working better based on the acceptance and performance on the WC tour. The Vist does work though, I've tried it. Hit some ruts with it that would have been bone-jarring without, and it definitely helped. I had the rear locked and the middle and front floating. I hear this is the racer setup, makes sense to me. The bottom of the Vist has notches to allow it to flex upward with the board, but even so, it does alter the flex of the board. The ride is smoother and faster, but IMO it's too heavy for my freecarving needs, and it seems to make the board ride longer. It also eliminates some snow feel. I suppose you would adapt to that over time, but at first it was a bit scary - I didn't feel when I was about to lose an edge, and then pow, I was going for a long fast slide on my pants with this big heavy thing on my feet. My question about the Apex is what do the extensions do? Do they contact the board when the board is bent and act as a leaf spring? Anyway, exciting stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARCrider Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 My question about the Apex is what do the extensions do? Do they contact the board when the board is bent and act as a leaf spring? Anyway, exciting stuff. if I tell you someone will kill me might just be a place to stick sponsors logos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Soze Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 No longer in production, but given the popularity of plate systems now, I wonder why this wasn't more popular before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Soze Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 I think Gerab is not mentioned yet in this thread http://www.scorpionracingcenter.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45&products_id=70 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Soze Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 I think Gerab is not mentioned yet in this threadhttp://www.scorpionracingcenter.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45&products_id=70 Good call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterGold Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 @lowrider - do you really think that plates like the Vist do not work??? We should tell lots of pros about this ... but Prommegger (and lots of others) seem to place consistently on the podium anyway ... those pros ... no idea what works and what doesn´t :D ... @Jack Michaud - it took me about 5 whole days of riding before I got used to the feeling of the plates ... but then ... For me it heavily depended on the condition of the slopes. We had bad conditions at the beginning of the season (lots of ice, artificial snow and bumps/ruts). The plates shine in such conditions. For me there is no way around this. The "better" the slopes, the less the need for plates ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 I chose my words very carefully I didn't say they don't work I said they don't compliment the boards design. They impose their own.I take it from your response you don't agree.How can I convince you? Jack would you care to try a pair of my aluminum riser bars and offer your opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Jack would you care to try a pair of my aluminum riser bars and offer your opinion? I'm yer Huckleberry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Soze Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Jack would you care to try a pair of my aluminum riser bars and offer your opinion? Aluminum riser bars? Did I miss something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterGold Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 I chose my words very carefully I didn't say they don't work I said they don't compliment the boards design. They impose their own.I take it from your response you don't agree.How can I convince you? Jack would you care to try a pair of my aluminum riser bars and offer your opinion? Ok, I reread your post - ... the others just interfere with it's performance ... And pros who win competitions this year would use such a plate? I don´t doubt that the Apex plate will work very well and Karl´s plate also has some interesting construction elements, but my point is how big can the advantage be, if people are still winning WCs on the Vist? I´m sure that there is a lot of room for improvement, but the Vist is by no way a "bad" plate ... that´s highly unlikely ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Bryan, without giving away secrets what types of mods are needed on the hangls, is it reversible or is it destructive to some of the parts? interested but I just want to know what I'm getting into. second question, is there a weight reduction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~tb Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Last year I came up with 2 plate system concepts that I thought might be effective and novel. Being an engineer that works in the influence of patents (and during the time several people were posting regarding the intellectual property of plate systems) I decided I would search for and read all the patents that I thought might apply to the plate system I had in mind. What did I find? There are some really cool patents out there Just about every aspect of the system I had in mind would have been covered by a patent in the ski industry Based on all of these patents, my idea would likely not be patentable If my idea is not patentable. . . I might use it for myself, but no point in pushing it hard to anyone in the industry. Mike Tinkler has some pretty cool patents especially for windsurfing Jeff Caron and Fin both have some pretty cool patents. IMHO Luccio (of Madd fame) has one of the cooler plate system patents here is an HTML dump of my sheet. 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{background-color:white;font-family:verdana;font-size:100.0%;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;color:#000000;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:bottom;white-space:nowrap;overflow:hidden;text-indent:3px;padding-left:0px;border-right:1px solid #CCC;border-bottom:1px solid #CCC;} .tblGenFixed td.s11 {background-color:#000080;font-family:verdana;font-size:100.0%;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;color:#ffffff;text-decoration:none;text-align:left;vertical-align:bottom;white-space:nowrap;overflow:hidden;text-indent:3px;padding-left:0px;border-right:1px solid #CCC;border-bottom:1px solid #CCC;border-left:1px solid #CCC;} </style></head><body style='border:0px;margin:0px'><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 id='tblMain'><tr><td><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 class='tblGenFixed' id='tblMain_0'><tr class='rShim'><td class='rShim' style='width:0;'><td class='rShim' style='width:108px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:121px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:304px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:121px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:76px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:105px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:287px;'><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s0'><td class='s1'><td class='s1'><td class='s1'><td class='s1'><td class='s1'><td class='s1'></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td colspan=5 class='s3'>Patents relevant to snowboard binding and plate systems<td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td class='s4'></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td colspan=5 class='s5'><td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td ></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td ><td ><td ><td ><td ><td ></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s6'>Important notes<td colspan=6 class='s7'>1 - Most patents for snowboard plate systems are covered by ski industry patents (Rossi and Salamon<td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td colspan=5 class='s7'>2 - Mike Tinkler holds several patents. The most relevant has to do with the use of snowsticks.<td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td ></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td colspan=5 class='s8'><td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td ></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td class='s9'><td class='s10'><td class='s10'><td class='s5'><td class='s5'><td ></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s11'>Relevance<td class='s12'>Relevant Patents<td class='s13'>Description<td class='s14'>Owner<td class='s12'>Granted<td class='s12'>Expires<td class='s15'></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s16'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=30&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&S1=5232241&OS=5232241&RS=5232241'>5232241</a><td class='s18'>Snow ski with integral binding isolation mounting plate<td class='s18'>K2 Corporation<td class='s19'>3-Aug-93<td class='s19'>29-Jul-13<td class='s18'>References "Derby Flex"patent</tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s20'>Plate system<td class='s21'><a href='http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/fetch.jsp?SEARCH_IA=CH1983000039&DBSELECT=PCT&C=10&TOTAL=1&IDB=0&TYPE_FIELD=256&SERVER_TYPE=19-10&QUERY=%28FP%2FCH83%2F00039%29+&ELEMENT_SET=B&START=1&SORT=41240665-KEY&RESULT=1&DISP=25&FORM=SEP-0%2FHITNUM%2CB-ENG%2CDP%2CMC%2C'>PCT/CH1983/000039</a><td class='s18'>DAMPING DEVICE FOR SKIES<td class='s10'><td class='s19'>13-Oct-83<td class='s19'>8-Oct-03<td class='s18'>this is the "Derby Flex" patent</tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s22'>limited Relevance<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F4405149'>4405149</a><td class='s18'>Ski with vibration-damping means <td class='s18'>Rossignol<td class='s19'>20-Sep-83<td class='s19'>15-Sep-03<td ></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s22'>Limited Relevance<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F4438946'>4438946</a><td class='s18'>Slalom ski with vibration damper <td class='s18'>Rossignol<td class='s19'>27-Mar-84<td class='s19'>22-Mar-04<td ></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s20'>Plate system<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F4804200'>4804200</a><td class='s18'>Sliding device, particularly alpine ski <td class='s18'>Kuchler; Walter (D-4712 Werne, DE)<td class='s19'>14-Feb-89<td class='s19'>9-Feb-09<td class='s18'>Closest thing to a plate system</tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s23'>not relevant<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F4902548'>4902548</a><td class='s18'>Reinforcing member (visco-elastic)<td class='s18'>Atomic<td class='s19'>20-Feb-90<td class='s19'>15-Feb-10<td class='s10'></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s24'>Limited Relevance<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5002301'>5002301</a><td class='s18'>Ski having improved shock absorption and vibration resistance <td class='s18'>Salomon<td class='s19'>26-Mar-91<td class='s19'>21-Mar-11<td class='s10'></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s24'>Limited Relevance<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5033765'>5033765</a><td class='s18'>Ski having improved shock absorption and vibration resistance <td class='s18'>Salomon<td class='s19'>23-Jul-91<td class='s19'>18-Jul-11<td class='s10'></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s20'>Plate system<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5211418'>5211418</a><td class='s18'>Plate-shaped damping device for ski binding <td class='s18'>Varpat Patentverwertungs AG (Littau, CH) <td class='s19'>18-May-93<td class='s19'>13-May-13<td class='s18'>damped plate system</tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s20'>Plate system<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5232241'>5232241</a><td class='s18'>Snow ski with integral binding isolation mounting plate <td class='s18'>K2 Corporation<td class='s19'>3-Aug-93<td class='s19'>29-Jul-13<td class='s18'>recessed plate</tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s25'>not relevant<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=26&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&p=1&S1=(((Snow+AND+isolation)+AND+board)+AND+ski)&OS=Snow+AND+isolation+AND+board+AND+ski&RS=(((Snow+AND+isolation)+AND+board)+'>5775715</a><td class='s18'>Piezoelectric damper for a board such as a snow ski or snowboard <td class='s18'>K2 Corporation<td class='s19'>7-Jul-98<td class='s19'>2-Jul-18<td ></tr></table><tr><td><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 class='tblGenFixed' id='tblMain_1'><tr class='rShim'><td class='rShim' style='width:0;'><td class='rShim' style='width:108px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:121px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:304px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:121px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:76px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:105px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:287px;'><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s6'>Read one of these 5<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=27&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&p=1&S1=(((Snow+AND+isolation)+AND+board)+AND+ski)&OS=Snow+AND+isolation+AND+board+AND+ski&RS=(((Snow+AND+isolation)+AND+board)+'>5647353</a><td class='s18'>Ski device fluid damper<td class='s18'>Ski-Shocks, Inc.<td class='s19'>15-Jul-97<td class='s19'>10-Jul-17<td class='s7'>These are all interesting, but esentialy the same</tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s6'>Read one of these 5<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=28&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&p=1&S1=(((Snow+AND+isolation)+AND+board)+AND+ski)&OS=Snow+AND+isolation+AND+board+AND+ski&RS=(((Snow+AND+isolation)+AND+board)+'>5499836</a><td class='s18'>Ski device fluid damper<td class='s18'>Ski-Shocks, Inc.<td class='s19'>19-Mar-96<td class='s19'>14-Mar-16<td class='s7'>These are all interesting, but esentialy the same</tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s6'>Read one of these 5<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=29&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&p=1&S1=(((Snow+AND+isolation)+AND+board)+AND+ski)&OS=Snow+AND+isolation+AND+board+AND+ski&RS=(((Snow+AND+isolation)+AND+board)+'>5332254</a><td class='s18'>Ski device fluid damper<td class='s18'>Ski-Shocks, Inc.<td class='s19'>26-Jul-94<td class='s19'>21-Jul-14<td class='s7'>These are all interesting, but esentialy the same</tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s6'>Read one of these 5<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=31&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&p=1&S1=(((Snow+AND+isolation)+AND+board)+AND+ski)&OS=Snow+AND+isolation+AND+board+AND+ski&RS=(((Snow+AND+isolation)+AND+board)+'>5213355</a><td class='s18'>Ski device fluid damper<td class='s18'>Ski-Shocks, Inc.<td class='s19'>25-May-93<td class='s19'>20-May-13<td class='s7'>These are all interesting, but esentialy the same</tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s6'>Read one of these 5<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=32&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&p=1&S1=(((Snow+AND+isolation)+AND+board)+AND+ski)&OS=Snow+AND+isolation+AND+board+AND+ski&RS=(((Snow+AND+isolation)+AND+board)+'>5156413</a><td class='s18'>Ski device fluid damper<td class='s18'>Ski-Shocks, Inc.<td class='s19'>20-Oct-92<td class='s19'>15-Oct-12<td class='s7'>These are all interesting, but esentialy the same</tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s20'>Plate system<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F4896895'>4896895</a><td class='s18'>Shock-absorbing element for skis<td class='s18'>Bettosini; Brosi (8610 Uster, CH)<td class='s19'>30-Jan-90<td class='s19'>25-Jan-10<td class='s10'></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s20'>Plate system<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F4294460'>4294460</a><td class='s18'>Foot-plates for ski-bindings <td class='s18'>Kirsch; Bernhard (5500 Trier-Biewer, DE<td class='s19'>13-Oct-81<td class='s19'>8-Oct-01<td class='s18'>looks like the vist plate</tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s22'>limited Relevance<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F4141570'>4141570</a><td class='s18'>Adjustable connection between ski and binding <td class='s18'>Sudmeier; James L. (Riverside, CA)<td class='s19'>27-Feb-79<td class='s19'>22-Feb-99<td class='s18'>looks like a catek snowboard binding </tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s25'>not relevant<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5342077'>5342077</a><td class='s18'>Snow surfboard having asymmetric characteristics <td class='s18'>Rossignol<td class='s19'>30-Aug-94<td class='s19'>25-Aug-14<td class='s10'></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s22'>limited Relevance<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5333889'>5333889</a><td class='s18'>Board for sliding, provided with a device for damping vibrations<td class='s18'>Rossignol<td class='s19'>2-Aug-94<td class='s19'>28-Jul-14<td class='s18'>semi plate</tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s26'>Plate System Very Relevant<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5332252'>5332252</a><td class='s18'>Shock absorption device for a ski <td class='s18'>Salomon<td class='s19'>26-Jul-94<td class='s19'>21-Jul-14<td class='s10'></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s27'>Relevant<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5284357'>5284357</a><td class='s18'>Apparatus and method for damping deflections and vibrations in skis <td class='s18'>Tinkler<td class='s19'>8-Feb-94<td class='s19'>3-Feb-14<td class='s18'>check back</tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5199734'>5199734</a><td class='s18'>Ski (with plate)<td class='s18'>Head<td class='s19'>6-Apr-93<td class='s19'>1-Apr-13<td class='s18'>relevant</tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F4592567'>4592567</a><td class='s18'>Modifiable stiffness ski <td class='s18'>Caber Italia S.p.A. (Montebelluna, IT) <td class='s19'>3-Jun-86<td class='s19'>29-May-06<td ></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s25'> OLD idea<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F4951960'>4951960</a><td class='s18'>Snowboard whole length split<td class='s18'>Sadler; Stanley (Kippen, Stirling, FK8 3EF, GB6)<td class='s19'>28-Aug-90<td class='s19'>23-Aug-10<td ></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=43&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&p=1&S1=Tinkler&OS=Tinkler&RS=Tinkler'>7021647</a><td class='s18'>Board for gliding (built in plate)<td class='s18'>Rossignol<td class='s19'>4-Apr-06<td class='s19'>30-Mar-26<td ></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=36&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&p=1&S1=((adjustable+AND+flex)+AND+snowboard)&OS=adjustable+AND+flex+AND+snowboard&RS=((adjustable+AND+flex)+AND+snowboard)'>6659493</a><td class='s18'>Connector plate for bindings <td class='s18'>Trnka; Milan (Kladno, CZ)<td class='s19'>9-Dec-03<td class='s19'>4-Dec-23<td ></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s6'>Luccio from Madd<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=79&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&s1=((adjustable+AND+flex)+AND+snowboard)&p=2&OS=adjustable+AND+flex+AND+snowboard&RS=((adjustable+AND+flex)+AND+snowboard)'>6113113</a><td class='s18'>Sliding apparatus having adjustable flexion and torsion characteristics <td class='s18'>Harrington; Robert J. (Framingham, MA) <td class='s19'>5-Sep-00<td class='s19'>31-Aug-20<td class='s18'>Luccio from MADD in italy is on this one</tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s16'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5525083'>5525083</a><td class='s18'>Towable water sports apparatus such as a water ski <td class='s18'>O'brien<td class='s19'>11-Jun-96<td class='s19'>6-Jun-16<td class='s18'>mentions plate</tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s16'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F4865345'>4865345</a><td class='s18'>Vibration damper for ski <td class='s18'>Rossignol<td class='s19'>12-Sep-89<td class='s19'>7-Sep-09<td class='s18'>relevant</tr></table><tr><td><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 class='tblGenFixed' id='tblMain_2'><tr class='rShim'><td class='rShim' style='width:0;'><td class='rShim' style='width:108px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:121px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:304px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:121px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:76px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:105px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:287px;'><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s28'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F3797839'>3797839</a><td class='s18'>Earlies Plate system I can find<td class='s18'>Gertsch AG (Zug, CH) <td class='s19'>19-Mar-74<td class='s19'>14-Mar-94<td class='s18'>relevabt</tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s6'>Luccio from Madd<td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=88&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&s1=((adjustable+AND+flex)+AND+snowboard)&p=2&OS=adjustable+AND+flex+AND+snowboard&RS=((adjustable+AND+flex)+AND+snowboard)'>5984343</a><td colspan=2 class='s18'>Sliding apparatus having adjustable flexion and torsion characteristics <td style='display:none;'><td class='s19'>16-Nov-99<td class='s19'>11-Nov-19<td class='s18'>Luccio from MADD in italy is on this one</tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s16'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5573264'>5573264</a><td class='s18'>Snowboard (flex modifier)<td class='s18'>Salomon<td class='s19'>12-Nov-96<td class='s19'>7-Nov-16<td class='s10'></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5326126'>5326126</a><td class='s18'>Modification of the flexibility of skis<td class='s18'>Ruffinengo; Piero G. (Salt Lake City, UT)<td class='s19'>5-Jul-94<td class='s19'>30-Jun-14<td class='s18'>go back and check</tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5301976'>5301976</a><td class='s18'>Ski bonding <td class='s18'>Marker Deutschland GmbH (Eschenlohe, DE) <td class='s19'>12-Apr-94<td class='s19'>7-Apr-14<td class='s18'>relevant if putting impedance member in</tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s16'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F6270108'>6270108</a><td class='s18'>Device for damping vibrations of a ski <td class='s18'>Salomon<td class='s19'>7-Aug-01<td class='s19'>2-Aug-21<td class='s10'></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s16'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F6293567'>6293567</a><td class='s18'>Snowboard with selectively added structural components <td class='s18'>Menges; John D. (Portland, OR)<td class='s19'>25-Sep-01<td class='s19'>20-Sep-21<td class='s18'>rele</tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s16'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5671940'>5671940</a><td class='s18'>Device for mounting a boot on a downhill ski <td class='s18'>Rossignol<td class='s19'>30-Sep-97<td class='s19'>25-Sep-17<td class='s10'></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s16'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5393086'>5393086</a><td class='s18'>Ski for winter sports comprising a base, a stiffener and a support for bindings <td class='s18'>Salomon<td class='s19'>28-Feb-95<td class='s19'>23-Feb-15<td class='s10'></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s16'><td class='s10'><td class='s10'><td class='s10'><td class='s9'><td class='s19'><td class='s10'></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td class='s9'><td class='s10'><td class='s10'><td class='s5'><td class='s19'><td ></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td class='s9'><td class='s10'><td class='s10'><td class='s5'><td class='s19'><td ></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td colspan=5 class='s12'>Other Tinkler Patents<td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td class='s4'></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F4649847'>4649847</a><td class='s18'>Hull construction <td class='s18'>tinkler<td class='s5'><td class='s19'><td class='s18'>may be relevant</tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F3902207'>3902207</a><td class='s18'>Surfboard<td class='s18'>tinkler<td class='s19'>2-Sep-75<td class='s19'>28-Aug-95<td ></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s16'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F3988794'>3988794</a><td class='s18'>Surfboard with resilient tail<td class='s18'>tinkler<td class='s19'>2-Nov-76<td class='s19'>28-Oct-96<td class='s10'></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F4662781'>4662781</a><td class='s18'>Apparatus for creating water sports ramp <td class='s18'>tinkler<td class='s19'>5-May-87<td class='s19'>30-Apr-07<td ></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td colspan=5 class='s12'>Fin Doyle's patent for TD1<td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td class='s4'></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&p=1&S1=(Doyle+AND+Fintan)&OS=Doyle+AND+Fintan&RS=(Doyle+AND+Fintan)'>5895068</a><td class='s18'>TD 1 binding<td class='s18'>Doyle<td class='s5'><td class='s5'><td ></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td colspan=5 class='s12'>Jeff Caron's patents for Catek<td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td style='display:none;'><td class='s4'></tr></table><tr><td><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 class='tblGenFixed' id='tblMain_3'><tr class='rShim'><td class='rShim' style='width:0;'><td class='rShim' style='width:108px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:121px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:304px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:121px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:76px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:105px;'><td class='rShim' style='width:287px;'><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s16'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5577756'>5577756</a><td class='s10'><td class='s18'>Caron<td class='s9'><td class='s9'><td class='s10'></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=7&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&p=1&S1=(((Caron+AND+Jeffrey)+AND+Binding)+AND+Snow)&OS=Caron+AND+Jeffrey+AND+Binding+AND+Snow&RS=(((Caron+AND+Jeffrey)+AND+Bindi'>6189911</a><td class='s10'><td class='s18'>Caron<td class='s5'><td class='s5'><td ></tr><tr><td class=hd><p style='height:16px;'>.</td><td class='s2'><td class='s17'><a href='http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=6&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&p=1&S1=(((Caron+AND+Jeffrey)+AND+Binding)+AND+Snow)&OS=Caron+AND+Jeffrey+AND+Binding+AND+Snow&RS=(((Caron+AND+Jeffrey)+AND+Bindi'>6315318</a><td class='s10'><td class='s18'>Caron<td class='s5'><td class='s5'><td ></tr></table></table></body></html> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Jack send your post address i'll send the bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 I have some uninformed questions for the forum: Is the functional benefit of plate systems primarily suspension, allowing the board to flex without "dead spots", both, or something else? Does anyone have any information on how well each plate system delivers those benefits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Ask a patent lawyer. I think you have asked the correct question but until now everyone has tried to make a board do what their device desires rather than allow the board to do what it is designed to do.Reading through many of the previously posted links on patents I am left with the conclusion that the hardware and devices do "something" rather than allow the board to do it's thing uninterupted . Less is more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Soze Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Covered à la Canadienne in the second picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterGold Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 What plate is Heidi Neururer using (the one on the left)? (So many Vists again ...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 I would guess that it is somekind Vist clone btw this thread is still missing all Japanese plates, linked alread earlier to some other discussion here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yyzcanuck Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 I'm yer Huckleberry! You're a daisy if you do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterGold Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 btw this thread is still missing all Japanese plates, linked alread earlier to some other discussion here Here is one link - http://www.surfeye.com/EYEStune/ACTIVEindex.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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