Bomber TD3 Sidewinder Bindings

[Galen]

UPZ's must have a longer footprint then deluxe? I'm MP25 and still could take it one adjustment smaller. I can still get to the disk bolts, but not being able to get to the base plate bolts is a little annoying.

[Buell]

Just flip the toe block. The hard stop only holds the toe bail a small amount higher than when it stops on the plate the toe block is mounted on.

I have 24 mondo Deeluxe Track 700s and had to flip the toe block. They almost fit though.

On my board, I could still place the mounting bolts in inserts that were accessible without moving the toe and heel blocks. I also managed to have the 3 bolts that mount the top plate to the cant disk accessible, but that was just a happy coincidence with my cant / lift preferences.

[two_ravens]

Very cool video! :biggthump:biggthump:biggthump

I would love to see more like that - it would be interesting to see how the standards compare to these two... :)

[Quigley]

Finally got my own today from Fin. went straigt to the top of Copper Mountain on my fresh new 197 Burner.

The initial drop in felt strange, definitly have a bit of added freedom of flexibilty which is immediately noticable, not odd or bad as sensations go. I would just say new, they don't feel the same as any other version of TDs I have ridden...

but it is once you come to full speed on some steep harp pack terrain that suddenly you realize you are much more stable!!!

The added dampening in the new TD3 Sidewinder allows me a much better sensitivity and feeling for the piste. I got away with speeds today under the SuperBee chair far greater than I have ever previously experienced.

I found myself wishing I was in a speedsuit cause I could tell my baggy coat was slowing me down....

I can't wait to see how much my riding is improved by this binding!!!

I want to say my hats off to the BOMBER crew.

[Quigley]

It is my humble opinion that Fin has revolutionalized his allready superior product.

My sensitivity to the piste is greatly improved.

I can t wait to see the quantitative proof in my course times that these new bindings have improved my performance... that is my expectation...

Everyone must ride these to believe the upgrade:AR15firin

[Quigley]

Myself and a co-worker spent the day at Cooper

it was sort of the race crew invasion on the Over The Hill Gang...

pretty sure no one had ever seen anything like it there before.

by the end of the day the trenches on Nightmare dominated the landscape to be seen on the ride up the back side's triple chair... that was when we were on the lift... otherwise it was us burning down it that demanded attention.

The groomers corderow could be detected when we started the morning on Nightmare though the cats had not been on the run the previous night.

There just is no traffic on our hill, maybe a couple hundred guests on the blue bird day!!!

Sidewinders have greatly improved my feel for the piste. I am absolutely convinced after my second day that I am riding faster and in more control than has ever been possible before for me, with increased confidence that I am not going to chatter out.

I have no ears for any nay saying. This is the way of the future... I am not ever going back...

All the security of having Bombers under my feet with none of the previous rigidity... I felt like I could even comfortably ride a wider stance too which also seems to have improved my stability...

I want another pair so I can run standard front, step-in back....

[heroshmero]

I want to say that the Sidewinders are awesome. One of the things I love about them is how much better my knees and ankles feel after riding. The amount of damping is great.

I am 6'3", weigh 245 lbs and wear a 30 Mondo boot. I upgraded from TD2 Stepins with Intec heels. I read other posts and decided that for my size and weight I would go with the purple E-rings and the blue E-pads. That choice has worked out perfectly.

I did notice a tiny bit of input lag with the Sidewinders compared to the TD2 Stepins but now after 4 days of riding on them I must have completely overcome that because they are working great and I don't notice any lag at all anymore.

Nice work Fin and Bomber!

[Hans]

Nice report Heroshmero. With what stance angles and board did you ride those SW's?

[heroshmero]

Nice report Heroshmero. With what stance angles and board did you ride those SW's?

I'm riding a Coiler 190 PRC with a 20.5 waist.

Angles are 63 front and 60 back.

3 degrees pure toe lift in front.

3 degrees heel lift in back with a tiny bit of outward cant (something like 0.3 degrees).

The other thing to note is that I ordered the Sidewinders with the long base plates to accommodate my big boots that have been punched out for my wide feet. The long base plates allowed me to get the boot bias set up perfectly.

I'm really happy with the purchase.

[Quigley]

Raced GS yesterday for the first time on my 188 with sidewinders...

cut 2 seconds off my average time

THESE BINDINGS ARE DEFINITLY FASTER IN MY OPINION.

now I need new boots

[Quigley]

Have heard or read alot of comments about what boots the TD3 SIDEWINDERS may not be compatible with...

However I have a different take...

My bad ass new Scarpa Skookums very disappointingly did not sit on the TD2 toe and heel blocks well enough to work. boo!!!

I for one don't relish the boots being a carver. I am totally sick of race boots which I have been riding in for over ten years... I mean boots are what sets your status on the ski hill. And my deeluxes may as well say I do ballet. However my Scarpas say I may be a **** kicker...

Very happy to determine that the new platform interfaces well with my Skookums!!!! And now I don't have to look so queer off my board:AR15firin

Just yet another reason I totally love my SIDEWINDERS

granted I assume this is not FIN recommended but I am gonna run this way from now on...

[Miltie]

Location: Dynaland, Gifu , Japan and June Mountain/Mammoth, CA

Conditions: Hard groomed and wet slop in Japan / Groomed packed powder and fresh powder (4”) in CA

Previous Bindings used: Bomber TD1s, TD2s, TD3 SI, Burton Race plates and Snow-Pro

Boots used: Deeluxe Track 700T with BTS (blue springs) & Fin-Tec heels / Raichle SB225 with RAB and stiff tongue in the front

Stance/Angles: 48 cm (19” ) / 60 degrees Fr, 55 degrees Rr

Rider weight: 155 – 160 lbs without gear

Rider skill/experience/style: Average / 20 plus years on alpine gear / race carve - upright

Boards used: Custom Donek Freecarve 165 Metal (traditional shape), Custom Donek Freecarve 173 Metal (traditional shape) and New Donek Freecarve Metal 171 (new shape)

E-Rings used: Blue (medium)

E-Pads used: Yellow (soft)

Cants: 3 degrees front and 6 degrees rear

I received my first set of Sidewinders in Japan shortly after they went on sale and immediately bolted them on a board. The “bling factor” and usual primo Bomber build quality impressed me at first.

Normally ride TD3 SI’s with blue E-Rings so I decided to set up the Sidewinders with blue E-Rings as well for better comparison.

The first day on the bindings was in hard snow conditions (early AM) and wet chop/slop in the afternoon.

First off, found the ride of the Sidewinders to be “Cadillac smooth”, however, the “built in” flex was a little disconcerting at first. Power edge to edge was still excellent and seems unchanged from my TD3s. They seem to soak up much of the vibrations/harshness caused by uneven snow. Once I got used to flex, things clicked.

One “post riding” observation is that my knees felt better after riding and the next day. Assume this added benefit of built in flex of bindings.

Had a second set of Sidewinders shipped to my office in LA for trip to California in early March.

Spent another 4 days on the Sidewinders in “hero snow” conditions at June Mountain and Mammoth. Still have the same impression. Smooth.

The flex/dampening provided by the yellow E-pads was perfect for my weight. Do not think I would even want to try the blue E-pads – probably too stiff.

I have been on step-ins since 2003 due to the convenience and my “desk jockey” laziness. After riding the Sidewinders, I forgot all about step-ins. Would probably buy a set if Fin makes step-ins but would still ride these without the step-in feature. The comfort outweighs the convenience.

Conclusion: The power transmission edge to edge remains great but the allowed lateral flex makes for a comfortable smooth ride. I am no World Cup racer but found the Sidewinders a step up from my already excellent TD3’s. Fin has raised the bar with this product.

Thanks Fin and the Bomber Crew!

[Seraph]

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. I rode my new sidewinders today, and they have saved me from the continuation of nearly two seasons of frustration. Okay so a quick background, this is my second season on hardboots, prior to today my setup is/was Head Stratos Pro (bts and other modifications), Donek Axxess 172 (2008 model, non-metal), and TD2 Intec Step-Ins. Only change today was switching to the Sidewinders. Up until recently (and today being the proof) I was having several issues while riding in hardboots which I agonized over thinking that it had to be a technique issue, and couldn't possibly be a gear issue. Those issues included;

1. Making turns at low speeds (i.e., dealing with traffic at the beginning and ending of a run). I couldn't get the board to turn when I wanted to, I was always fighting the board to get it to initiate.

2. Being able to carve on anything outside of perfectly groomed conditions.

3. Being able to ride outside of perfect conditions without getting totally jarred and beat up, and not being able to control my board. I couldn't understand why the axxess was considered an all mountain board.

4. In general the board was doing the driving, I was just having a terrible time getting any control over it.

5. Even after several bootfitting sessions my left foot, my lead foot and quad was just aching from every muscle trying to steer and control my board. Note I have tried various cant/lift setups, angle changes, stance changes, none of which helped.

Needless to say I had been doing a lot more softboot carving this year because I had lost any confidence I had in riding on my hardboot gear. After reading all the postings about the sidewinder, I started reviewing a lot of the previous posts regarding the differences in riding bails vs. step-ins, and particularly the flex issue, which the sidewinder would address. So instead of going with an F2 or a racepro binding, I figured I would give the sidewinders a shot, and I could not believe the difference on that first run. All those problems I noted above were gone and I was in control of my riding in groom, on ice, bumpy terrain, basically anything that was available to ride on except mogul fields. I could feel the little undulations and imperfections on the snow when I was riding over them but I wasn't getting thrown around. It felt like I was getting the dampening of a soft boot ride with the response that would be expected of a hard boot ride. When I threw the board into a carve, the board carved; when I needed it to slarve or skid, the board responded with no hesitation.

I haven't ridden an all metal board to tell what difference it would be on my ride, but I can say without hesitation, this binding does make a tremendous difference, and I recommend it to anyone who may be on the fence about it. It is that good. Any convenience I enjoyed from using step-ins was well worth losing for what I got in return.

BTW, I was riding on the yellow erings and yellow pads.

[lowrider]

Do the Sidewinders ride anything like the old Emery bindings with the linear ridge under heel and toe and plastic cushion that allows the boot to rock sideways ???

[Bora20]

Any suggestions on what e-rings to use; yellow, purple, or red?

Prior 4WD 179, 215lbs without gear. I want a set of these next year. A SI version would make them the even easier, but the TD3 bail stops will make it much easier to get in vs. the TD2 that I used this season.

[Cam]

<o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" images="" smilies="" redface.gif="" border="0" alt="" title="Embarrassment" smilieid="3" class="inlineimg"></o:smarttagtype>Sidewinder Review:

This may get a little long-winded, sorry, but this is what happens when you give something new to a snowboard coach who studied engineering in university.

<o></o>

My info:

Height: 5’11”

Weight” 285 lbs

Boards: Coiler Custom GS Metal 189 cm with waist of 22.5 cm (very stiff), Coiler Custom SL Metal 166 cm with waist of 23.5 cm (scary stiff).

Riser: Vist Plates on both

Boots: Technica Diablo Pro Ski Race Boots - modified (tried snowboard boots and broke a pair every couple weeks – ski boots will almost last a season)

Binding Set-Up: Front: Flat, 62 degrees - Back: 3 degrees of heel lift, 57 degree, stiff red base E-Ring.

Riding history: Since mid 90’s, balance between plates and softies while coaching, try to get at least 100 days on snow each year.

Historically I have spent my plate riding on TD1’s, then TD2’s, then TD3’s with trying F2’s here and there.

Sidewinder set-up: Blue/Purple Elastomers in the sole blocks (mid stiffness).

Days on sidewinders: 30+

<o></o>

First impressions: With the SW’s I definitely notice more lateral movement, and this is very new to me. Riding one-footed is a little tougher especially on my heelside (I do a lot of one-foot riding while coaching and setting courses.)

<o></o>

Once both feet are clipped in I noticed the lateral movement allowed me to get my center of mass into the turn at initiation before the edge really grabs. This means that once the edge did grab I could build pressure very quickly. Leading to the ability to build pressure quickly in the top half of the turn, and accelerate better above the fall line. Also as mentioned many times before the vibration-dampening is great and felt smooth.

<o></o>

Comparing the SW’s to regular TD3’s: I find the SW’s more dense than the TD3’s, and less twitchy at turn initiation and completion. I also found that the Elastomers in the sole blocks allow the pressure on the edge to build progressively. Regular TD3’s would grab instantly; F2’s had a bit of a dead feeling when the rider’s center of mass is over the board as if they were loose then grabbed once they got into the turn. I much prefer the progressive edge pressure build of the SW’s.

<o></o>

I am a big fan of the ability to change Elastomers and alter the flex of the binding without tempting ejection. I think if a young rider starts with the softest Elastomers they can grow with the bindings and change to stiffer Elastomers as they gain muscle. I had a 12 year old 90 lb aggressive rider on the SW’s and a 160 cm metal board and he took to the setup like a fish to water. We just had to switch to all the softest Elastomers we could get. The ability to dial in the lateral stiffness is a big plus. I am experimenting with using different sole block Elastomers on the arch versus the outside of the foot. I would like to mess with it more before I comment on it, but having the option to do this is cool.

As far as reliability this is the first year I have not broken a pair of bindings, ever. Great work Finn & Co. The design of relying on an elastomer that should be compressed versus relying on metal or plastic fatigue to create lateral flex is brilliant. I was initially concerned with having moving parts within the binding creating locations where concentrated fatigue may occur. But no problems yet.

<o></o>

As far as height off the snow and weight I did not notice a difference between TD3’s and SW’s. I think this is due to my use of the Vist plates. Adding a few grams when my set-up weighs numerous kilo’s, or 2 mm of height when I am already jacked off the snow 5 cm are not significantly different.

<o></o>

Issues:<o></o>

Larger sole blocks covered the angle adjustment screws (as mentioned before). This is a little issue that took a couple more minutes to set-up; but became annoying when I am trying to let lots of people try them out.

<o></o>

The screws for mounting the sole blocks to the base plate are obscured a little by the upper part of the blocks. This just takes more care in set-up to make sure they are seated correctly in the screw-head cut-outs on the blocks.

<o></o>

On two occasions the sole block Elastomers slid out of position. All of a sudden I had way more lateral movement then I wanted. I am not sure if this can be fixed with a slight redesign of the how the Elastomers are seated in the sole blocks. Keep an eye on them, and if there is any movement break out the C-Clamp to fix it.

<o></o>

Price: $449 USD for the SW’s or $349 USD (Bomberonline Price), versus $292 USD for F2 Titanium or $254 USD for the Ibex Speed TC from another website (prices are approximations using currency conversions – I am not trying to advertise or break any posting rules, I am just trying to show pricing differences. Please let me know if this violates anything and I will be happy to edit it). The price difference has been raised as a concern to me from thrifty parents (I am not going to say cheap). My feeling on this concern is - you get what you pay for. Given the wear and tear I put gear through, I would fully expect Sidewinders to last the average rider years and years, while other bindings tend to break or fatigue.

<o></o>

Final Recommendations:<o></o>

I would strongly recommend the SW’s for anyone still using Ski boots (if there is anyone out there besides me). With the variability in the design a rider can grow with the bindings. The Bomber durability and manufacturing quality keep me coming back year after year. If someone is looking for bindings to last the next 3+ season that still has lateral movement SW’s are your best choice. They are also great for aggressive riders, looking to accelerate above the fall line.

I have made the switch to the Sidewinder’s (at least until Finn’s next breakthrough). They are the best pair of bindings I have ridden yet. I have two pair now, and the set that aren’t clipped into my boots have the tendency to magically appear on one of my riders boards. All the feedback I have gotten from people who have ridden them has been positive, and they want them, now we just have to see if they will spend the money.

<o></o>

<st1>Cam</st1><o></o>

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Wow! Great review Cam. As a Coach and a big guy, you definitely put them through their paces!! Almost makes me want to get out the Technica ski boots I road with for years and give them a go :) Almost!.

Thanks for your time to write the thorough post!

[ursle]

Love my sidewinders, but when it's cold and I'm bundled up with lot's of layers getting the rear foot clipped in with a 21.5" stance is a drag, really await the sidewinder stepins...

Broke down this evening and mounted some F2 stepins on the rear with SW's on the front, just sayin...

[Guest]

Sidewinder review:

Riding the SWs I had a harder time initiating and finishing turns and recovering from being out of position than on the F2s. The SW did offer a precision in the middle of a carve on good groom that the F2s do not quite have, but in anything less than perfect, their stiffness made absorbing bumps more difficult for me.

Buell

So, Buell - I'm kind of confused here - I'm 145lbs and on TD2's and I guess I don't even know what having a NOT stiff binding would be like...are you recommending the SW's or not? I kind of got a mixed read from your post. Keeping in mind that price is sort of an issue, should I just go with F2's?

Anyone around 150lbs please chime in :)

ps sorry for the resurrection - but I wanted to keep it in the same general thread

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

So, Buell - I'm kind of confused here - I'm 145lbs and on TD2's and I guess I don't even know what having a NOT stiff binding would be like...are you recommending the SW's or not? I kind of got a mixed read from your post. Keeping in mind that price is sort of an issue, should I just go with F2's?

Anyone around 150lbs please chime in :)

ps sorry for the resurrection - but I wanted to keep it in the same general thread

Me, not 150lbs. However, if you are currently riding TD2s and you are 145 you will love TD3s.

You would also like F2s. You will have to try them to know which you prefer. Both will likely be a marked improvement for you.

...are you recommending the SW's or not? I kind of got a mixed read from your post.

And as an attorney, do you promise to be so direct? Buell said what he said. You the jury must decide what the outcome is :)

[leeho730]

I love the binding. Compared to snowpro and Burton race.

True, the binding is heavy, true, the binding is fiddly for those with small boot sizes (I recently down-sized to 24 on deeluxe for my 25.5 feet), but hell they r super smooth! Especially I love how they cover my imperfect heelside techniques on icy steep slope (~25 to 30 degrees). With sw, I have greater confidence on heelside turns. Thanks Bomber!

I only wish they had step in version... Best of both worlds!

[Steve Prokopiw]

Finally ponied up for Sidewinders and I'm glad I did.I demoed them at SES 11 on a couple of different boards and immediately knew I needed them.I have been riding the poor man's version(SnoPro) for some time,always thinking about getting the real deal under my boots.I use ski boots for a variety of reasons(variety being the main reason;-) These bindings work very well with both the Atomic B-80 and Technica Air-90 ski boots I use.I also have old Raichle Freezone ski boots with BTS installed but have relegated those to powder day use with my Rossi Jeremy Jones board that still has SnoPros on it.

The pros and cons of Sidewinders

-Pros;instant response to input from heel to toe and toe to heel.Great lateral and medial movement capability without feeling sloppy (like SnoPro does).I am going to get the yellow toe and heel elastomers soon to play with still more ease of movement than the blue ones I have currently.I like the solidity of the blue base pads ,so I don't think I would like softer base pads but do think I will have fun with softer toe and heel elastomers. I can see using yellow in the back binding and blue up front for my style of riding.Interestingly,the bindings feel so much more solid than SnoPros that I thought initially that I wasn't getting much movement,but video showed that I am indeed getting as much movement,but without the slop and or delay in response to terrain changes or my input.I'm getting Great performance overall from these bindings.

Cons;It's not enough to keep me from buying another pair someday,but the way these are designed makes a second board kit useless for riders with smaller sized boots like mine.I downsize from my street size to use size 25.5 boots.Even though they are ski boots with slightly longer soles than snowboard hardboots of the same size' they require the toe and or heel blocks to be adjusted inward to the point of obstructing at least one of three bolts of the base plate.This means that to use a second board kit I have to remove the toe or heel block that obstructs the base plate bolt-thus making it a lengthier process than just removing the whole binding setup to change boards.

So,I have a lightly used second board kit I bought here from another member for sale.(80.00 shipped to lower 48 states)

Overall I highly recommend Sidewinders as the highest performance binding with the most responsive and best feel of any I have tried.I can see(or feel) how a stepin version of these would appeal to stepin users, as the lateral/medial stiffness of stepin systems that makes many riders choose to ride standard bail bindings for their inherent flex instead, is pretty much addressed in the best way possible on Sidewinders.

Note that I didn't list the price as a con.They are expensive,but they're WORTH IT!

p.s. I meant to mention that I bought these through Hardbooter.com so I could use paypal. I've bought other stuff through them and Hardbooter.com has always treated me right :-)

Edited February 7, 2013 by Steve Prokopiw

[carvedog]

Thinking about new gear for the first time in four years. I would appreciate and update from anyone who can supply one on the SI version of the Sidewinder.

It looks like it is higher still than the regular bail binding. Thanks.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Jerry. IMHO the sw si is ideal flex, not as much total flex as the std bindings. Just enough to be a bit more forgiving without giving up much in the way of edge angle.

[carvedog]

Thanks Bryan. Just saw this. I don't get notifications of when people post back to threads I have posted in ( subscribed threads no workee). Appreciate the input. On the hunt now. And within the last month TGR has started sending me notices of subscribed threads that are newly posted in. The interwebz is cracking apart.