Derf Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 2 notes I'd like to add: German cars like VW and BMW (and I could add Saab, not german but european) are well built, well designed, but unreliable. Sure, they last a long time, but with how many visits to the dealer or mechanic? All VW owners I know are changing for other brands because of reliability issues (tired of going to the dealer for recurring electrical issues and so on), and I'm speaking of owners of recent models (2000 and more recent). I don't know enough BMW owners, but what I can tell, owners of these cars (VW, BMW, Saab, etc) are attached to these car more for the brand name or sentimental reasons than reliability. And I repeat: quality of construction and durability is not the same as reliability. As for SUVs, in my opinion, very few people need them, if any. They consume way too much gas and are dangerous for OTHERS on the roads. Sure, the eternal arguments of snow, cargo space and "off road" keep coming back. 1- For the snow, a front wheel drive car with good snow tires and careful driving will do the trick. If you want more control, you have models with traction control and/or 4wd (like Subarus for this). No need to buy something Categorized as a "truck" by the EPA to get around town and go on the highway, cars are for that. 2- For cargo space, you have several wagons have enough interior cargo space. SUVs don't have as much interior cargo space as people would expect by looking at the outside. The Mazda 6 and Subaru Legacy (or Outback) are good examples. 3- Many people consider going places with gravel roads or dirt roads as going "off road". Regular cars have enough ground clearance, but not all, low suspensions and aerodynamic skirts being quite popular with even sedans now. I know some will say "I do real off road" like in Bob's picture, but do you really need to go these places? And if you do it for fun or leisure (which I don't agree with), most modern SUVs have independant suspensions, for city and highway driving and I'm no expert, but from what I read, independant suspension really s*cks off road, a rigid axle is better (or something similar, I'm no expert as I said). That's what Jeeps [T-Y-insert letter here]J and Range Rovers are for. Derf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thomas_m Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Originally posted by Bob Jenney Fin has bags of money laying around the shop. He tossed a couple to me and told me to buy something nice for myself. :D Thomas, Don't underestimate the 'Reg. It'll more than keep up with any Rover. Spend some time looking at the specs and look at some of the pics on the web. Hi Bob. I like the Reg and thought about buying one when we got our Pilot. So I have looked at the specs, but I've been driving Rovers offroad since '96. However your photo actually proves my point - the Reg doesn't have the wheel articulation to hang with a coilsprung Rover on serious terrain. Look at the lack of wheel drop in your photo. I may be wrong, but I just don't see the Rg having the suspension flexibility shown in this photo. Look at the angle of the stuffed rear compared the each of the left wheels: Articulation in the other direction to help keep the power on the ground: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thomas_m Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Originally posted by Derf [b As for SUVs, in my opinion, very few people need them, if any. Derf [/b] Cut off the 'if any' and I'd mostly agree with you... ...and I've owned 8 SUV's in the last 10 years, usually more than one at once. However, we tried sedans and wagons for the 'family car': a BMW M3 4door, Volvo T-5 and Volvo XC as recent examples. The BMW was fun but didn't have the cargo space. The Volvos had more cargo space but were always in the shop. So we switched back to SUV's for the 'family car'. Tried to buy a hybrid but they were unobtanium or being marked up $5K over msrp! The Pilot we got gets better gas mileage seats three more people and has 2cuft more cargo space than any of the wagons we owned(cheaper too). Crossover SUV's aren't that much different than comparable wagons these days. The Rover doesn't get near as much trail time since I stopped whitewater kayaking but I can't bring myself to get rid of it. It mostly sleeps in the garage and leaks oil... My daily ride is a 2002 Eurovan camper that I actually drive boarding when the roads aren't crazy - it's nice being able to gear up inside... T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Originally posted by Derf As for SUVs, in my opinion, very few people need them, if any. They consume way too much gas and are dangerous for OTHERS on the roads. And they are dangerous to their occupants. They'll roll over and crush you if you ever get them sideways, and ladder frames are notorious for transmitting impact to the cabin - no crumple zones. Get an SUV if you want one, but don't tell me it's for safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Originally posted by Bob Jenney On the safety front, one of the big selling points of the Touareg is it's small car friendly crumple zones. The car is specifically engineered to be safer for other cars on the road. If it weighs anything like it's cousin the Porsche Cayenne I can't see how it's safe for other cars. That's a 5000 pound vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Yellow Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 (EDIT ~ I now have an "SUV"... D'oh) Get a MINI...! Can’t tell you how many yahoo's in SUV's I've passed in the ditches of many a snow covered road.... ..Of course most people think that with 4 wheel they are invincible...:rolleyes: oh.. I have nothing against SUV’s... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P06781 Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Wasnt there one one these SUV vs Car vs motobike vs bicyle vs walking vs sitting on your ass typing on the computer threads from last year about this time........ :o Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Yellow Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 I think there was... maybe it had to deal with tires though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thomas_m Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Originally posted by Jack Michaud And they are dangerous to their occupants. They'll roll over and crush you if you ever get them sideways, and ladder frames are notorious for transmitting impact to the cabin - no crumple zones. Get an SUV if you want one, but don't tell me it's for safety. LOL Jack. This post looks pretty funny next to your avatar. Damn, I'm jealous of you guys with bikes. I'm "not allowed" or so I've been told...;) T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Originally posted by thomas_m LOL Jack. This post looks pretty funny next to your avatar. I don't tell people I bought a motorcycle for the added safety! (and I don't strap a baby-seat to the back either!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boogieman Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 my parents had al 3 of the range rovers the one on the picture above the one from a fuw years aggo and now they have the new one if you want something that will cost you a lot of money becouse theres always something braking buy a range rover also my sister works in a range rover dealer so she can know really really bad choice! if you want my opinion id buy a peugeot if you can get those in the us i have a 607 its as good as a german car and a lot cheaper mine has 143000 km in 3 years now and i didnt have any problem with it and it looks pretty nice to (mine is black with 18 inch alloy wheels) Also i had a peugeot 406 coupe before wich is a superb car looks great verry good engine i had the 2.2 hdi 150 hp did 1000 km with a tank (75 liter) and it holds to the road like a train on the rails really awsome car and of course i had no problems at all with it 216000 in km 4 years anyway check out your peugeot dealer great cars for great prices otherwise go for the japs if you dont want any problems (im in the automobil industrie i know what im talking about) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boogieman Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 and if you have enough cash id go for this baby 2 plus 2 if you want to, i started playing with the lottery since ive seen this car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boogieman Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 i cant attach this picture to my other post so i make a new one sorry for that buy a peugeot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Originally posted by Jack Michaud And they are dangerous to their occupants. They'll roll over and crush you if you ever get them sideways, and ladder frames are notorious for transmitting impact to the cabin - no crumple zones. Get an SUV if you want one, but don't tell me it's for safety. Don't let the poor engineered American SUVs spoil it for all -- do a rough check of safety of crash or rollover of a Japanese SUV like the Lexus RX and compare it to an Exploder, Blazer or Jeep. I would feel in danger in one of those (Exploder, Blazer or Jeep) rattle death traps. I drive my RX sensibly and within a reasonable speed and feel quite safe compared to many others. No wonder many are still trying to copy it- Chevy, Ford, Chrysler and more to the point Cadillac SRX, even looks like one and uses RX in its name but Lexus keeps one step ahead as always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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